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View Full Version : oil leak pt.2 (lower intake manifold)



ltdcrwnvic
07-10-2006, 03:40 AM
like gadget said in da first part, he suggested it might be my rear intake seal. i hoped it could have been da rear main seal or even the oil pan gasket, but i checked da back of da motor right underneath da air valve crossing over to da other side of da block and well its all slimy and i saw a small puddle of oil there. if fixed, i risk losing my engine according to some of you guys. if its this serious, can a respectable 'bad ass' shop do da job well??? should i just NOT fix da leak? i dont want to leave a trail of oil everywhere i go. but then again i dont want to lose my car. so wat do you guys think? :(

Mercracer
07-10-2006, 05:52 AM
like gadget said in da first part, he suggested it might be my rear intake seal. i hoped it could have been da rear main seal or even the oil pan gasket, but i checked da back of da motor right underneath da air valve crossing over to da other side of da block and well its all slimy and i saw a small puddle of oil there. if fixed, i risk losing my engine according to some of you guys. if its this serious, can a respectable 'bad ass' shop do da job well??? should i just NOT fix da leak? i dont want to leave a trail of oil everywhere i go. but then again i dont want to lose my car. so wat do you guys think? :(

Dat der leak is not dat serious. How can fixin da leke reck your engine?

Seriously dude, an intake gasket is not a bad afternoon job. How are you thinking that you will "loose" your motor? Oil pan or worse yet rear main involve more time and effort than a simple intake gasket. Just flush with oil with your plug out to flush any garbage you drop into the motor that you can't get at. If you are careful, there is little danger of pluging your pickup. Just install a mechanical gauge before the intake job if you have concerns. If you see a sudden oil pressure drop at some point after the gasket change, you know that it is time to drop the pan and change the pickup. The other option is to do the pan gasket with the intake gasket.

ltdcrwnvic
07-10-2006, 02:27 PM
alright, i was thinking i could ruin my engine because of da coolant not being properly flushed out when da intake is taken off. if da coolant makes its way down to da engine, will just drainin da oil pan and pouring some more oil to drain it fix this potential problem? if i do clog up da pickup/sender where is it located at so i can change it or pay some extra caution to it.

ltdcrwnvic
07-10-2006, 02:31 PM
oh, i forgot to ask, i take off da upper intake and all da lines connected to it. what else should be removed so i can get to it? should i take off those pesky air valve lines runnin in da back of block to make it easier? any maintanance i can give da upper/lower intake while they're out? and is silicon needed to keep those gaskets/seals nice and sealed?

Pimp Hard Or Bust
07-10-2006, 06:18 PM
can we make somthng that automatically changes 'da' to 'the' like we had 'man' to 'mang' ? may make it a bit more readable

Paul_
07-10-2006, 09:12 PM
can we make somthng that automatically changes 'da' to 'the' like we had 'man' to 'mang' ? may make it a bit more readable

No.

85crownHPP
07-10-2006, 09:30 PM
clean out any sludge you find, and you can clean out the intake manifold too, all the EGR passages and such. Any thing thats in the way and looks removable, go for it.
Be sure to let the pressure off the fuel lines first - you can leave the rails and injectors in place when you remove the lower manifold.

Oh! sombody here knows the gasket set you MUST buy!!! theres one with nice big rubber gasket pieces for the front and rear (its a 4 piece gasket - buy some RTV too)that have lips on them to keep them in place.
The cork ones are near impossible to keep still intell you glue them down, almost any movment of the intake after setting it down can slide them out of place.

DuceAnAHalf
07-10-2006, 09:37 PM
I did not use any gaskets under the manifold. I just used a thick bead (about 3/16") of RTV. Did the same on my brothers 302. No leaks, Edelbrock even recomends to not use gaskets, jsut a thick bead of RTV.

85crownHPP
07-10-2006, 09:39 PM
hhhmmm.... how long did you let it cure? if at all

gadget73
07-10-2006, 11:58 PM
We used to do about 10-15 mins before setting the intake on Jasper motors, and it would sit maybe another hour or so before test firing the motor usually. The Fel-Pro lower intake set has the rubber end seals. I used them when I did mine and they worked out nicely. The cork ones are garbage.

Mercracer
07-11-2006, 07:17 AM
can we make somthng that automatically changes 'da' to 'the' like we had 'man' to 'mang' ? may make it a bit more readable

What's da problem wit da.... Eh? Owr site is verry diverse an we wud like ta keep it dat der way. :evil:

ltdcrwnvic
07-11-2006, 11:55 AM
i called a couple shops today and most of them said dat my cv doesnt have or need any gaskets in da intake. i started insisting to speak with somebody else and well i got hung up on. i think i just might end up doing it myself.

has there been any previous threads on a step by step on how to do this particular job?

gadget73
07-11-2006, 08:23 PM
They don't have gaskets on the intake? hahahaha. OK, you don't want that shop working on your car.

ltdcrwnvic
07-12-2006, 05:09 AM
yup, i couldnt believe those assholes, dumb pricks lol. well ill start doing it soon. plannin on taking off da wiring harness's leadin up to da upper intake, throttle body linkage cable, coolant hoses, etc and removing da upper. then proceeding to do some cleaing around so no gunk will get into da engine. whats next after i take off da upper intake? should i do da valve cover gaskets while im in there? drain da oil from both da front plug and rear plug or which one? before or after im done?

ltdcrwnvic
07-12-2006, 02:33 PM
are these da gaskets i need?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MRG%2D5835&N=4294925237+4294925236+4294822050+4294908395+4294 908331+4294840126+4294925008+115&autoview=sku
or
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FEL%2DMS93334&N=4294925237+4294925236+4294822050+4294908395+4294 908331+4294840126+4294925008+115&autoview=sku

but for da rear gasket is it included here or is it seperate?

gadget73
07-12-2006, 07:29 PM
You want the Fel Pro set, FEL-MS93334. All the gaskets you need are in there, the blue squiggly things are the front and rear seals. It should also have the O ring for the distributor. Change that too.

I'd do valve covers just because you're there. Have to pull all that crap apart again to do them so might as well. Only 12 more bolts or whatever it is. I'd go for the FelPro Perma-Dry valve cover gaskets, or some other that are the rubber over steel type. The cork ones will start leaking again eventually.

Mercmarquis
07-12-2006, 08:52 PM
I did not use any gaskets under the manifold. I just used a thick bead (about 3/16") of RTV. Did the same on my brothers 302. No leaks, Edelbrock even recomends to not use gaskets, jsut a thick bead of RTV.



I didnt use gaskets either, the thick bead of RTV worked great for me too. No leaks. To see how thick the bead has to be just set the manifold on the motor with the intake gaskets on it and look how big the gap is.

ltdcrwnvic
07-12-2006, 09:03 PM
lets see, you guys are only talking about da gasket between da upper and lower right? u suggest to not use a gasket between da upper and lower, instead just use silicone right. if i do use da gaskets, wat thickness?

when replacing da squiggly(rear and front) seals where exactly are they? where can i find them because i doubt i can find them easily wit all dat mess i have there. of course im gonna clean it up but still i wanna know where to look.

i know where da O ring goes, but wat about dat other lil weird looking seal wit 2 holes and 2 smaller holes. where does dat go installed?

Mercmarquis
07-12-2006, 09:09 PM
lets see, you guys are only talking about da gasket between da upper and lower right? u suggest to not use a gasket between da upper and lower, instead just use silicone right. if i do use da gaskets, wat thickness?

when replacing da squiggly(rear and front) seals where exactly are they? where can i find them because i doubt i can find them easily wit all dat mess i have there. of course im gonna clean it up but still i wanna know where to look.

i know where da O ring goes, but wat about dat other lil weird looking seal wit 2 holes and 2 smaller holes. where does dat go installed?


No, I am talking about the front and rear seals(squiggly thangs), use silicone on them. Dont use silicone between your upeer and lower manifolds.

Mercmarquis
07-12-2006, 09:10 PM
I think the 2 hole gasket i for the EGR

gadget73
07-12-2006, 09:14 PM
its for the IAC valve. No idea why they include that in an intake set, no reason to remove the IAC.

Mercmarquis
07-12-2006, 09:20 PM
Yeah, I'm not to familiar with efi, thanks for correcting me mang!


Heres a pic I found to help you understand what we are talking about, This guy isnt using the front and rear seals, instead its just silcone.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h144/mercmarquis/intakegaskets.jpg

ltdcrwnvic
07-12-2006, 09:50 PM
merc, gadget, thanx alot guys. thats exactly wat i needed to know to start doing it myself. now dat i know, first thing tomorow morning ill get started on it. u guys think checkers carries that pack wit all those gaskets/seals. or are they gonna try and screw me by buying each thing seperately.

88MercWagon
07-12-2006, 10:13 PM
Go get dat shit done man. Good luck.

ltdcrwnvic
07-12-2006, 11:24 PM
one more thing, when cleanin all dat gunk there, if any of degreaser gets into da engine, will it hurt it any? i mean it dry pretty damn quick but if it hurts it, i will try and not get too much into it. how about any gasoline? i usually use some to clean my parts before putting them back on, can i also use gas to clean some surfaces?
thanx alot for all da help guys. i will get it done and i will take some pics wit all my intake gutted out.

Mercmarquis
07-13-2006, 02:56 PM
I would think that it wouldnt hurt anything as long as you dont spray the degreaser/gas on the cam bearings and you should flush out your oil and put some new stuff in when you are done and about ready to fire it up.

ltdcrwnvic
07-14-2006, 12:31 AM
here it is nice and clean, it was a bitch and took forever to clean. i didnt know it was this beautiful at all :P
1829
does this mean dat my car is a 86 and not an 87? or just da year when da motor was built?
1836
1831
1832
when i was cleaning it, i was wondering what this bolt was for or if sumthing else can be plugged into it, water temp gauge maybe? it was near #4 in da back left
1833
1834
it looks mean doesnt it? i was thinking, after cleaning it all, how would it look, da whole upper intake, blacked out? i havent seen any intakes on here or on cardomain all blacked out. and just leave da "5.0 EFI" nice and silver so it can stand out more.... opinions?
1835
1837
P.O.S. these cute lil things here arent very nice at all lol, they were a bit hard to take off and cutting da fuel lines to take em off wasnt cool, now i know wat gas tastes like, literally lol. how can i check if all injectors are operational? any way to test em while they're out? i didnt have any problems with them before but i was just wondering
1838

more pics 2morow gentlemen..... so far so good!!!

Pimp Hard Or Bust
07-14-2006, 12:35 AM
good worrk. i mean da car come apart good.

Mercracer
07-14-2006, 06:05 AM
does this mean dat my car is a 86 and not an 87? or just da year when da motor was built?

That is only an indicator of the first model year (not calendar year) that part was intended to be used. With that casting number, it could have been cast in 1985.

You could definitely use that hole for a water temp guage.

gadget73
07-14-2006, 01:48 PM
You cut the fuel lines? Why?! Those springlock connectors will come apart with the correct tool. Never a good idea to cut those lines.

Mercracer
07-14-2006, 04:04 PM
P.O.S. these cute lil things here arent very nice at all lol, they were a bit hard to take off and cutting da fuel lines to take em off wasnt cool, now i know wat gas tastes like, literally lol. how can i check if all injectors are operational?


No tools for you.......one year!!! :naughty:


You made a pile of more work for yourself by cutting the lines. The cheap line tool set is less than $10. They are split plastic discs that slide into the fittings and release the springs.

Grand Marquis GT
07-14-2006, 06:09 PM
No tools for you.......one year!!! :naughty:

Start calling you the "Box Nazi" :rofl:

Mercracer
07-14-2006, 06:37 PM
Start calling you the "Box Nazi" :rofl:


:lol3:

ltdcrwnvic
07-14-2006, 11:17 PM
damnit, i knew i was workin a lil too hard on it :uh: apologies my good men(whats da name of dat tool for future reference?), for that reason i will work double time 2morow and hopefully get it done. i know i know, why havent i finished it off yet? im taking my sweet ass time and well i think you'll like the results. hope you like: :usa: (no nazi) lol

1845

1846

1847

1848

1849

1850

1851

1852

1853
wtf is dat, lol
1854

ltdcrwnvic
07-14-2006, 11:34 PM
some more...
1856

1857

1858
right under dat yellow sticker/paper on da middle left of da pic, where da rear rubber seal goes, thats where i suspect da leak was located at. a tiny crack on da cork seal and some oil running was noticeable.
1859
after taking it off, i inspected it for holes dat might cause a leak and surprisingly no holes watsoever. keep it or take it off? im planning on takin off da smog pump anyways. if i do, how do i plug da holes? i remember on a previous post u guys suggested just sawing da 'ears' off dat pipe and placing them backwards right? more info on this please....
1860

1861

ltdcrwnvic
07-15-2006, 11:03 PM
sunday-hopefully last day of work and this happens
1882

managed to take these b4 it started pouring
1883
clean enough to eat out off?
1884

on another note, after cleanin it...
1885
slice/rip in one of da rubber or plastic hoses in da back of da fuel lines, easy fix though, but good to find it
1886
should i replace da injectors while they're out? how many #lbs are da ones we use? or a slight better fuel economy ones or better performance wise? brand?

theres alot of talk on here about da timing of our cars. dont know if i may have or havent messed up da timing, i have a pretty good idea of where da distributor was when i took it off. by 'ear', timing light, shop? wats da best? i have no timing light or have any knowledge of doing it by ear, sounds easy but wouldnt know how to do it properly. i read dat post from another thread on crownvic.net and well i think i can do it. another thing, when i unplugged da wires going to da cap, i numbered them and all but now after all da oil everywhere, da #'s are gone and im lost AGAIN, anyone have a diagram of how the wires go on da cap? or which # is which on da cap, only one there is da #1. and even then im not too sure about it being for dat reason. help?

ltdcrwnvic
07-16-2006, 12:11 AM
wat #lbs injectors are da ones our cars use? fuel economy ones or better performance? brands?

gadget73
07-16-2006, 01:27 AM
14# injector, keep the stock size.

Where did the goop go from the intake? Make sure you pull the drain plugs out of the oil pan and dump some kerosene down there before you even consider starting that motor, otherwise any loose junk will get sucked right into the oil pickup and you'll be needing a motor.

ltdcrwnvic
07-16-2006, 02:54 AM
wat goop do u mean? where was it leaking from or where was dat charcoal found? karosene? u mean pouring some down these holes right?
1887
or which ones? has to be karosene, cant be gasoline?

Mercracer
07-16-2006, 10:52 AM
14# injector, keep the stock size.

Where did the goop go from the intake? Make sure you pull the drain plugs out of the oil pan and dump some kerosene down there before you even consider starting that motor, otherwise any loose junk will get sucked right into the oil pickup and you'll be needing a motor.

Motor oil is just fine. It doesn't take much residual kerosene, gasoline, etc. to kill a fresh batch of oil and start killing your motor.

gadget73
07-16-2006, 11:45 AM
I just meant all the garbage that was under the intake. If it got knocked loose and down into the motor, it will clog up the oil pickup when you fire the engine up. Anything to flush it down and out will work, just make sure its all cleared out before you put the oil pan plugs back in and refill it with oil. I only suggested kerosene because its what that engine flush garbage is. Kero is also fairly cheap. You can also use engine oil, or if you happen to be changing the oil on another vehicle, use the used motor oil as a flush, either way is fine but just make sure any loose junk has been flushed out of the lifter galley and out of the engine otherwise its gonna die.

ltdcrwnvic
07-16-2006, 03:40 PM
i can pour oil down into da engine from these holes right?
1892

ltdcrwnvic
07-16-2006, 11:29 PM
well i flushed da engine wit 2 quarts of oil just to be sure, and damn, when drained about 1/4 - 1/2 of antifreeze was in da engine. good info on drainin da oil. removed da front bolt of da oil pan and no antifreeze to be found there but still was flushed for gunk. bolts back on, head gaskets on, rubber rear/front seals on wit some rtv silicon. lower intake back on and bolted tight. i decided to leave on da air valve pipe dat runs from head to head just b/c it has no leaks in it and well im not quite ready to take off da smog pump yet. 2morow(monday) ill be cleanin, sandin, and painting my valve covers so they look extra sharp before puttin da upper intake back on. blaze, merc, thanx for da continuous help

Grand Marquis GT
07-17-2006, 09:06 AM
I love that grille!

Got more pics?

ltdcrwnvic
07-17-2006, 11:52 AM
thanx, i sure do heres a couple:
190619071908

ltdcrwnvic
07-17-2006, 01:59 PM
putting everything back in, im having concerns about da distributor/cap/rotor. i have an idea of where i took it off but if it starts actin up, this shop says theyll adjust my timing for $45 and advance it for $15. i have no timing light. how can i fix it or just take it to da shop?

da spark plug wires to da cap were obviously disconnected now i dont remember how they go. any diagram or pictorial on how they go or the numbers on da cap for each wire? any help...?

Mercmarquis
07-17-2006, 07:09 PM
Heres an easy way to ball park it to get it running again. Put the rotor on the distributor (leave the cap off) and try to get the rotor to point straight back 12 o'clock positon or 1 o'clock is fine too. Also make sure the wiring harness on the distributor is pointing towards the alt. That "should" get you close enough to get it running, you may have to have someone crank the car while you rotate the distributor around back and forth a lil bit to catch.

You can get yourself a timing light pretty cheap (around $20) from harbor frieght or sears. That way you can set it yourself and have it if you ever need it again. I think $45 to set timing is a ripoff.

Mercmarquis
07-17-2006, 07:16 PM
the firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 in a counter clockwise rotation. Blazingmarauder had posed an awsome link that went into detail about it. I'll find it for ya.

Mercmarquis
07-17-2006, 07:22 PM
http://www.boxwrench.net/specs/ford_289_302-5.0.htm

Heres da link

gadget73
07-17-2006, 09:12 PM
Yeah, hell you can buy a timing light for what they want to set it. F that.

ltdcrwnvic
07-18-2006, 12:13 AM
well guys, i put everything back on today. last thing to do is fill her up with oil, change da oil filter and mess around with the distributor. that was some good info on da link, thanx merc.

how about sumthing like dat but for da spark plug wires? where each individual wire goes on each post on da cap. like i said i numbered everything but with all da oil everywhere i lost track of it.

gadget73
07-18-2006, 12:39 AM
That would be what the firing order is. #1 is marked on the cap, count from there with the firing order. Distributor turns counter-clockwise.Cylinder numbering and firing order are listed at that link.

ltdcrwnvic
07-18-2006, 02:51 PM
:uh: car is done, ready to turn on, but wont start. tweaking the distributor and i check under da car to see if anything is leakin and well guess wat. antifreeze leaking from da rear seal area. only thing i can guess is dat blue rubber P.O.S. shoulda just used a thick bead of silicon :wtf: have to wait til this weekend to do it again, dont know if any coolant got into da engine :arg: damn im pist.....

Mercracer
07-18-2006, 07:55 PM
:uh: car is done, ready to turn on, but wont start. tweaking the distributor and i check under da car to see if anything is leakin and well guess wat. antifreeze leaking from da rear seal area. only thing i can guess is dat blue rubber P.O.S. shoulda just used a thick bead of silicon :wtf: have to wait til this weekend to do it again, dont know if any coolant got into da engine :arg: damn im pist.....

That rear ledge seal only holds valley oil in, not coolant. Your side intake gasket shifted if you are leaking coolant from your intake.

gadget73
07-18-2006, 08:29 PM
Or the heater hose isn't tight on the pipe, or the hose for the EGR cooler is leaking.

88grandmarq
07-18-2006, 09:13 PM
2 things come to mind... did you torque the lower manifold bolts properly(20-25ft lbs) and use the correct tightening sequence?
also did you install the manifold gaskets correctly on the cylinder head? the Fel-pro set is stamped with "head side" on the gasket. if you reverse them, they will leak around the water passages.

ltdcrwnvic
07-18-2006, 09:13 PM
walked to work, bout 30-45min walk, another 45mins back.
da lines on da egr arent it, they're completely dry dat was my first guess. second was da other end of one of those egr lines dat connect to da lower intake, no leak there. and finally da other guess was the other egr line going over to the water pump. no leak there. so merc is probably right, side gasket moved and is lettin da coolant out. im so bummed out, but oh well, ill give it another shot friday. workin again 2morow and thursday. thanx for all the help guys ill let u know when i get her up and running again.......MARK MY WORDS, IT WILL RUN AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:2up:

ltdcrwnvic
07-18-2006, 09:20 PM
i tightened everything pretty well, bolts nice and snug, da gaskets(felpros) were placed correctly. i did notice da 'head side' and i placed it like they're suppose to go so im guessin they shifted and now theyre lettin coolant out. i put them on dry like they're supposed to go
when i go back, should i take off da rubber rear and front seals and just use a bead of rtv? im guessin that might be another place for leakage since i dont like rubber seals too much

88grandmarq
07-19-2006, 06:57 AM
It is possible the water passage area on the cylinder head(s) or on the intake manifold was not clean and the gasket didnt seal correctly. Once you tighten the gaskets you are NOT supposed to re-use them. $11 for the gasket set I would just replace it.

Keep in mind the Intake has a proper tightening sequence and the bolts must be torqued properly (20-25ft lbs) when doing the sequence.

Mercmarquis
07-19-2006, 10:54 AM
should i take off da rubber rear and front seals and just use a bead of rtv? im guessin that might be another place for leakage since i dont like rubber seals too much


That wouldnt cause your coolant leak, if those were leaking you would be only leaking oil.

ltdcrwnvic
07-19-2006, 01:02 PM
ok, what would da tightening sequence be? i cleaned both surfaces pretty well but ill re-clean them when i take them off.

Mercmarquis
07-19-2006, 02:02 PM
Heres the sequence as the bolt holes are on the manifold.
FIREWALL
7 8
3 2
11 10
9 12
1 4
5 6
radiator

I got that from this site.
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/614.shtml

Also a tip on the intake gaskets, I smeared some silicone around all the water passages on the head and the manifold, that way it keeps the gasket in place and also provides some extra sealing.