Plinkity plink, flapping sound... !?

[Big Rectangular Car]

Hello, took Rocinante on a 1900 mile, 2 week trip to the Pac. NW. Didn't have any problems per se, she went like a champ, but a worrisome sound has presented itself. When accelerating, there's this bizarre flapping, metallic plink sound a bit like a playing card on a bicycle wheel, coming from somewhere under the car. It isn't engine knock, it's different from that. Sometimes it's accompanied by a slight vibration, which goes higher and lower in tone depending on my speed. Often it seems to clear up on its own as I get on the freeway and go along at 60 plus mph for a few hours.
I'm wondering, wheel bearing, or differential bearing? Or-- what?
If anyone has any insight, or comment, many thanks... :)

[mrltd]

U joint maybe...I'd check the driveshaft for play.

[Big Rectangular Car]

Ah, U-joint. Had a quick look, I haven't really looked at it since the trip, its leaking a lot more at the front seal of the differential. I'll have to put the car up on jackstands, to get under there, to check the axle play.
When I had new tires put on up in WA at Les Schwab's, they said I needed a new differential cover gasket and c-clip. I didn't have the $ to get it done at the time, the gas prices took all my money... somebody else told me the car would be okay for the trip home, so I forgot about it for a while. So, I'm thinking maybe, the noise and the leakage might be related... I hope so, actually, so that I'll know what the problem is, and not something in addition to the known problem. Ugh.

[mrltd]

could be the pinion bearing or the flange coming loose. I ripped the flange off the pinion on my old car....LOL

[Big Rectangular Car]

Pinion and flange possible failure... hm.
Looking at the diagrams in this so called repair manual, I am leaning toward that conclusion, now. Being that there's a lot of leakage of gear oil there, and similar descriptions of the noise...
I'll have to tuck the car under her tarp and let her rest until she can see the drivetrain doctah. :bawling:

[mrltd]

Throw it on some jackstands, put it in neutral and see what you can find. Might just be U joints...might be loose bolts...

[Big Rectangular Car]

Aye aye, sah. Will do. :D
And I'll post an FYI when I find what the trouble is.

[Freshmeat]

Do you have hubcaps? It sounds to me like some of your lug nuts started backing out and you have one flopping around inside the hubcap.

[mrltd]

Yeah, could be....Those damn hubcaps.... Good call Woody...

[85crownHPP]

yeah - the metal adaptor thing that the hubcaps bolt to (do they have these?) and are held on by the lug nuts sound just like that when they are loose.
A flappy pinktity pink noise... I couldnt have put it better myself :rofl:

[Big Rectangular Car]

LOL! Forgot about checking that until you mentioned it. I'll have a look at them. I did get new tires put on, dunno if it happened afterward, some of it is a bit foggy, travelled to a lot of different places, and all.

I just checked out the driveshaft, and there's some play to it, about a quarter inch when it changes direction, when I move the rear wheels back and forth. The wierd thing is, the rear tires move even if it's in park, the same as neutral. Is that normal?
I am lost with automatics...

Going to look at the tires...

[Big Rectangular Car]

Okay... took all the hubcaps off... geez, the tire guys kind of manhandled them around a bit, they have new dings in them.
I'm debating putting them back on for a while, unless I go to a place where there's a likely incident of wheels being stolen.
The hubcap adapter thing was loose on one of the front wheels, and when I moved it, it made a noise similar to what I've described. Zo, it looks like you were absolutely right. I"m hoping you are!
It's also possible that the adapters weren't put back the same way they were taken off, otherwise it messes with the wheel balance. So says the owner's manual.

[mrltd]

1/4 inch is fine-if that's the amount it has for pinion/ring gear play. If that 1.4 inch is drivehaft yoke to flange, or driveshaft flange or yoke to driveshaft (u joints) then there is an issue. The driveshaft shouldn't move in park-too much..Wheels will turn as long as the driveshaft will.

[Big Rectangular Car]

I'm remembering more stuff... when the car went over fluctuations in the road and bounced, the sound would get louder on the downswing of the bounce. My shocks are not the best, the rear end lists a little lower on one side when the trunk is fully loaded with stuff.

[mrltd]

Could be a loose shock....Could just be a hubcap...

[Big Rectangular Car]

1/4 inch is fine-if that's the amount it has for pinion/ring gear play. If that 1.4 inch is drivehaft yoke to flange, or driveshaft flange or yoke to driveshaft (u joints) then there is an issue. The driveshaft shouldn't move in park-too much..Wheels will turn as long as the driveshaft will.

The flange and pinion are tight, the u-joint is tight, so I guess that is okay with them. Pretty difficult to diagnose stuff sight unseen, it's a pain in the neck.
THe place that put on my tires said I needed -- did I mention this already?-- new seals and a c-clip on the differential, the housing is leaking more than ever. and my rear brakes need to be replaced. Hubs are getting thin, they said, shoes can't grab at them. Even though this car had a full safety inspection a couple months ago.
I thought maybe they wanted me to spend more money, but I'm seeing what they mean. My rear brakes do make a scuffing noise when I turned the rear wheels.

Some fellow I talked to had a look at my car, and said, whatever is wrong with that beast, anything is possible. He made an old worn out crack about FORD meaning Found On Road Dead, gee, as though I'd never heard that before. Well, so what, that can happen to any car. I've seen Ferraris and Rolls Royces broken down on the side of the road, too. :uh:

[mrltd]

New C clip? Interesting.

If the shoes weren't grabbing...you would notice. The pedal would go to the floor, and you'd have a bit of trouble stopping.

However, drums are fairly inexpensive and rear brakes are pretty easy to do. The seals aren't too difficult...but I'll bet the right axle is worn a bit and new bearings would be a good idea prolly...

[Big Rectangular Car]

THat's what I thought, with the brakes, too. I had ascended and descended some mountain passes, and the brakes worked all right, though on occasion, it would vibrate somewhat. I figured maybe it was the rear brakes. Front brakes are almost new. But since I took my time and coasted down the hills to save gas, I didn't need to brake much on the turns. Obviously as long as I know the brakes are there for when I really need them, that is.
So, the listing to the right might have to do with a wearing out axle bearing? Since I want to use the car for more road trips, I'd like to try to find the trouble stuff before it fails on some lonely stretch of road where there's no cell phone coverage.

[mrltd]

The listing to one side is prolly just old springs...For the curent noise, remove the hubcaps and take it for a drive. See if that fixes the noise, if not, see if the shocks are loose, the upper mounts can get stripped.

[Big Rectangular Car]

Took off the hubcaps, they need a good cleaning anyway, and it's easier to do than stooping down to do so. More thorough, job, as well.
Turns out, it's the HUBCAPS!
Without them on, the adapters, which were not very well set back in when the lug nuts were reinstalled, were jingling merrily away... sounded like a bleedin' tambourine cruising down the street. Sheeesh...
I"m getting silly over this car. I keep worritin' that its something terrible going wrong, and it turns out to be hardly anything. Really, nothing.
I'm not used to that! :D

[gadget73]

When I had the locking wire hubcaps they made that noise too. The clips for the center caps were messed up and the cap would shift around. Getting rid of those things was the best thing I ever did.

[85crownHPP]

time for some turbines!!!!!!!!

[Big Rectangular Car]

I'm entertaining the idea of selling them or using them as wall art or something, and leaving the plain black wheels as is.

[85crownHPP]

oooh... see if you have the nubs. You could put dishes on them!

[Big Rectangular Car]

time for some turbines!!!!!!!!

Turbine hubcaps, yeah!

:wtf: :D

[Big Rectangular Car]

oooh... see if you have the nubs. You could put dishes on them!

You've lost me. Nubs? Dishes?

Nubs are part of the... wheel, and the dish must be... some kind of hub... cap...
? :wtf:

[boXman]

Dog dish hubcaps, yes.

[91 LTD]

Dog dish hubcaps, yes.

Aka cop car hub caps.

[mercenvy]

I"m getting silly over this car. I keep worritin' that its something terrible going wrong, and it turns out to be hardly anything. Really, nothing.
I'm not used to that! :D

Let's not forget that your diff is leaking. Also curious as to how someone would know you need a c-clip from changing a tire?

[mrltd]

the diff leak is minor, something to keep an eye on. They could think the c lip is bad because of axle play...

[Freshmeat]

My differential cover leaked for five years since I bought my wagon. About a month ago it finally got so low that I could feel the gears meshing together as it turned, so I opened it up and had about a cup of gear oil in there...
added some fresh oil and it's like it never happened.

[Big Rectangular Car]

Let's not forget that your diff is leaking. Also curious as to how someone would know you need a c-clip from changing a tire?

It was at a place called Les Schwab.
They do other repairs there, as well. Brakes, and etc. They put on the new tires, and in the process, they inspect the wheels and will mention any problems they observe underneath, then give you an estimate for repair.
So in the estimate, it said, hubs and shoes worn down to borderline safety specs.
Differential housing cover needs new seals and c-clip replacement, and both jobs added up to $285 with parts, labor and tax. I'd just spent $300 or so on the tires so... uhm, didn't have anything left.
But if you think this needs attention, I can scrape the money up and get it done. I don't have the resources to do this mineself.

[Big Rectangular Car]

My differential cover leaked for five years since I bought my wagon. About a month ago it finally got so low that I could feel the gears meshing together as it turned, so I opened it up and had about a cup of gear oil in there...
added some fresh oil and it's like it never happened.

The differential gear oil, which has been changed at regular intervals through the life of the car, was recently changed just before the car came into my possession. I checked it myself, so it was all good.
I can't figure out what the C-clip does, is it part of the front seal by the pinion and flange? Can't seem to find it in the diagrams, though I'd seen that thing somewhere before, but maybe I dreamed it, dunno. :screwy:

[mrltd]

Wonder what they mean by hubs? Rear brakes have drums and shoes...No hub..

[Big Rectangular Car]

Wonder what they mean by hubs? Rear brakes have drums and shoes...No hub..

Drums, not hubs. My mistake.

[interceptor1985]

BE CAREFUL SOME LES SWAB PLACES RIP PEAPLE OFF:puke: , I never had it happen BUT I know of peaple that it has.If they say you need a c-clip id go check it out with another place first just to be safe:merk:
First
On
Race
Day
:2up: :2up: I have never had any ford leave us stranded on the side of the road. My jeep yes once (not it's fault) the olds I had yes way too much, the toyota never broke down.

[Big Rectangular Car]

Hmm, hmm.
I got this done while up in Washington.
The nearest place for me, is about 84 miles away. Bah.
So I will have work done by somebody else, unless the tires are still under warranty. :D

[Big Rectangular Car]

First
On
Race
Day
:2up: :2up: I have never had any ford leave us stranded on the side of the road. My jeep yes once (not it's fault) the olds I had yes way too much, the toyota never broke down.

Oh I like that one. As far as it depends on me, I'll never let this car die. :D

[Big Rectangular Car]

Nope, it isn't the wheels, makikng the noise.
In the latest drive, even after removing caps and the brackets on the wheels,the noise is still there. It's isolated now, no longer a concert of plinking, but it's making the noise I heard while on the trip. I did a series of accelerations stronger than usual after the stop signs to see if that affected it, and it got louder when I accelerated. I'm leaning back toward the drivetrain again.
Back to square one...

[interceptor1985]

It's like 20 questions.....of sound!
My jeep makes that noize but it's allways a rock in the center cap.
it's annoying

[mercenvy]

My differential cover leaked for five years since I bought my wagon. About a month ago it finally got so low that I could feel the gears meshing together as it turned, so I opened it up and had about a cup of gear oil in there...
added some fresh oil and it's like it never happened.

OK, it's just that he didn't say it was leaking from the cover, he said it was leaking from the front, so I assume it's pinion-related. In my experience changing/reinstalling the diff cover might not help him in this case.
Of course if the leak is coming from the rear of the housing then you could keep dumping fresh gear oil in there and letting it leak out, but if it's the pinion, then the pinion will EVENTUALLY fail, and then kiss your ring gear goodbye. It could take years to happen or months or whatever but like was said, keep your eye on it.

[mercenvy]

The differential gear oil, which has been changed at regular intervals through the life of the car, was recently changed just before the car came into my possession. I checked it myself, so it was all good.
I can't figure out what the C-clip does, is it part of the front seal by the pinion and flange? Can't seem to find it in the diagrams, though I'd seen that thing somewhere before, but maybe I dreamed it, dunno. :screwy:

If you look at this picture you can see the c-clip on the end of the axle on the driver's side. It's that washer-looking thing, which essentially is sort of a c-shaped washer. Keeps the axle located in the housing. It isn't the end of the world to change it yourself if you have decent tools. I'm just thinking that while you have the thing apart for that, maybe the possible pinion issue should be dealt with at the same time and then it gets somewhat expensive. You'll need some specialized equipment to install the pinion yourself...a dial indicator with magnetic base helps alot. I know PatFromJersey has rebuilt many an 8.8 rearend, might want to PM him to see what he thinks.

[Big Rectangular Car]

Oh, I see it, now. Okay...
the differential leaks from both the front and the back, so I'm going to assume that the fellow who looked at it at Les Schwab is correct in saying I need new seals and a c-clip.

[Big Rectangular Car]

Got an estimate from a local place, they want somewhere between $200-300 to do the work. Geez, at least at Les Schwab they would have done my rear brakes included, for that money.
There's no way I can do this myself, I don't have a proper lift, and I'mnot about to lie under a car and risk having a gnadding axle fall on me. I'm not strong enough for that.
I'll keep shopping around.
Sorry about the whining... :P

[mercenvy]

Well I had my diff all apart and did it by meself without a lift.
But I didn't do a complete rebuild, either...that requires special equipment that I don't have...so I would take it to someone as well. You'll gain peace of mind when it's fixed, and your driveway will love you for it...lol