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Armada Master
09-14-2006, 04:01 PM
Link (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-060913lincoln-towncar-story,1,4461450.story?coll=chi-business-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true)


Wall Street's ride, Lincoln Town Car, faces demise

By Greg Bensinger
Bloomberg News
Published September 13, 2006, 3:31 PM CDT


The Lincoln Town Cars that chauffeur New York investment bankers home at the end of the day soon may be part of Wall Street history.

Ford Motor Co. plans to close the Wixom, Michigan, plant that makes the sedan and hasn't committed to production beyond the 2007 model year. Ford's Mercury Grand Marquis or DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler 300 may be called upon to take the Lincoln's place.

The Town Car, which makes up more than 80 percent of New York's 35,000 for-hire fleet, is the ``black car'' of choice in every major U.S. market, said Neil Weiss, editor of industry magazine Black Car News. Without it, life wouldn't be the same for thousands of bankers and executives who have been stretching out in the back seat since 1980, usually at company expense.

Investor Warren Buffett is already giving up the ride. Yesterday, he offered his 2001 Town Car in a charity auction.

``It's spacious, the leather seats are nice, and it's just a nice ride,'' Alex Weiss, an investment banking analyst for Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., said of the fleet models. Weiss, who uses a car service three or four times a month, estimated his five-minute ride costs Lehman $18, compared with $6 for a taxi.

The Town Car has a manufacturer's suggested retail price starting at more than $40,000. The biggest model is the largest American sedan, at 18 feet, 5 inches (5.6 meters). That's more than a foot longer than the $140,000 Mercedes-Benz S600, based on figures from Ford and DaimlerChrysler's Web sites.

Riders ``feel like kings in the back of these things,'' said Dean Hameed, 36, who has driven Town Cars for 10 years.

On a recent evening, Hameed's Town Car was one of 40 lined up outside Deutsche Bank AG on Wall Street. A mile away, 30 Town Cars waited on Greenwich Street in Tribeca for workers headed home from Citigroup Inc. just before midnight.

The vehicle is so much a part of Wall Street culture, the local community board demanded that Goldman Sachs Group Inc. adopt a ``black-car management plan'' for the $2.4 billion headquarters it's building in lower Manhattan. The investment bank agreed that black cars for employees working after 9 p.m. will be summoned from an adjacent garage, spokeswoman Andrea Raphael said.

Town Cars often are used as a messenger service, said Maria Yuan, 25, a former JPMorgan Chase & Co. investment banker.

``When one of our bosses or clients needed a package delivered to their house in Connecticut or Westchester, we'd just throw it in the back seat of one,'' she said.

Sometimes the car's comfort and spaciousness are put to the test.

``Christmastime, you get many, many drunk bankers,'' said driver Andy Koksal, 32, parked near Citigroup's offices on Park Avenue. Last December, he had to plead with a female passenger to limit her back-seat activities with a client because the windows were becoming too fogged.

``This is a very embarrassing situation,'' Koksal said. ``But you want to drive safely.''

Ford hasn't disclosed any decision on making the Town Car after the 2007 models, spokesman Jim Cain said.

Shuttering the Wixom plant is part of a plan announced in January by William Clay Ford Jr., great-grandson of the company's founder, to close 14 North American factories and cut 30,000 jobs by 2012. The company's board is to meet tomorrow to consider additional restructuring steps.

Boeing Co.'s Alan Mulally was named Sept. 1 to replace Ford as chief executive officer. Ford, who held the position for almost five years, remains chairman. The Dearborn, Michigan- based company, the second-biggest U.S. automaker, had a first- half loss of $1.44 billion.

Ford shares rose 13 cents, or 1.4 percent, to $9.19 at 4:01 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. They have gained 19 percent this year. The automaker's 7.45 percent note due July 2031 fell less than a cent to 79.75 cents on the dollar, yielding 9.6 percent, according to Trace, the NASD's bond-price reporting service.

Town Car sales slowed to about 47,000 in 2005 from 149,000 in 1990, according to Autodata Corp. This year's sales through August fell 17 percent. Sales are split about evenly between retail and fleet customers, Ford spokesman Alan Hall said.

``If they put $200 million into a redesign, I think they could revive sales quickly,'' said Dennis Virag, president of Automotive Consulting Group in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Buffett, chairman and chief executive officer of Berkshire Hathaway Inc., put his personal gold Town Car on the block -- including the license plate that says ``Thrifty'' -- in a benefit for Girls Inc., a New York-based non-profit educational group.

Bidding on EBay Inc.'s Web site runs through Sept. 22 and starts at $25,000 for the car, which has been driven less than 14,000 miles. Buffett replaced it earlier this year with a Cadillac, made by General Motors Corp.

The Chrysler 300 or the Grand Marquis is the Town Car's likely successor in black-car fleets, said John Wolkonowicz, senior auto analyst for Global Insight Inc., an economic forecasting firm in Lexington, Massachusetts.

Like the Town Car, both have long wheelbases and rear-wheel drive, making them roomy and better equipped to handle all-day driving, potholes and stop-and-go traffic, Wolkonowicz said. The Chrysler 300 is 16 feet, 5 inches, while the Grand Marquis is 17 feet, 7 inches.

The 16-foot, 4-inch Cadillac STS rear-wheel drive sedan is a less likely replacement, said Jesse Toprak, market forecasting director for vehicle-comparison Web site Edmunds.com.

That's because the STS has a retail price starting at almost $43,000 and a reputation as being less reliable, Toprak said. ``Pricing is the number one thing,'' he said. ``A few thousand dollars per car can make a big difference when you're buying this in quantity.''

David Yahodah, general manager of Queens-based City Ride Transportation, said he can't imagine what could replace his fleet of 180 Town Cars.

``You can put maybe 400,000 miles on a Town Car, no problem,'' Yahodah said.

In Brooklyn, Lincoln Auto Mall sells only used Town Cars, for as much as $31,000.

``We'll be able to sell Town Cars for a few years if there's no new ones,'' said general manager David Khoen, who estimates that he sells about 200 of the vehicles annually.

``We haven't crossed that bridge yet,'' he said. ``Maybe we'll change our name to Chrysler Auto Mall.''




Notice this?-


Investor Warren Buffett is already giving up the ride. Yesterday, he offered his 2001 Town Car in a charity auction.

He loves them so much, here's his idea to contribute:


Buffett, chairman and chief executive officer of Berkshire Hathaway Inc., put his personal gold Town Car on the block -- including the license plate that says ``Thrifty'' -- in a benefit for Girls Inc., a New York-based non-profit educational group.

Bidding on EBay Inc.'s Web site runs through Sept. 22 and starts at $25,000 for the car, which has been driven less than 14,000 miles. Buffett replaced it earlier this year with a Cadillac, made by General Motors Corp.

Don't go buy an '07 or anything. Jacka$$. :screwy:

mrltd
09-14-2006, 04:57 PM
YEah, WTF? Replaced it with a caddy already...Moron

MrMarquis
09-14-2006, 09:01 PM
Town Car vs...Cadillac??? Why? There isn't much competition there.

It's gonna be sad to see the Town Car go...I hope Ford can pull out of this slump, and keep production of the three large sedans constant.

boXman
09-15-2006, 12:17 AM
There won't be any new Panthers soon....

Archangel
09-15-2006, 02:03 AM
Well, the Crown Vickies are gonna be around for a while, and the MGM is basically a suped-up Crown Vickie so it's easier and cheaper to make. Interestingly, when you mention "Lincoln" to someone who's not from the US, the first two vehicles that come to their mind are the '60s Continentals with the suicide doors, and the Town Cars in all their varieties... Contis are gone, TC will follow suit, what will then be Licoln's flagship? That joke of a car the Zephyr?

boXman
09-15-2006, 02:11 AM
They only have plans for the CV/GM until 2009...07's are already out...2 more years. 30 years is a long run...what other platform has run that long?

interceptor1985
09-15-2006, 03:09 AM
How many platforms has it been? Cat's have 9 lives!

Blaze86Vic
09-15-2006, 07:16 AM
They plan to kil the panther line. Panther chassis have run from 79 to now. Up untill 2003 there were practicaly 0 changes. 03 and up have redesigned setups, but are still based off the same frame. The question is will they replace it with an appropriate model...or are they going to replace it with a mid-compact car like the 500?

nfldfordltd
09-15-2006, 08:27 PM
I put my 88 Town Car on the road the same day they announce the discontinuation of the towncar, I guess the mafia will be using Toyotas from now on...

boXman
09-16-2006, 11:28 AM
Panther started in '79...

Blaze86Vic
09-16-2006, 11:48 AM
Panther started in '79...


Woops, typo.

Lincolnmania
09-17-2006, 07:33 AM
but lincoln panthers didnt start till 80

boXman
09-17-2006, 02:31 PM
Yea, Lincolns are weird :p

Armada Master
09-18-2006, 03:35 AM
They only have plans for the CV/GM until 2009...07's are already out...2 more years. 30 years is a long run...what other platform has run that long?

GM's B-body from 1962-1996 :bawling:

Hey...you asked. :2cents:

boXman
09-18-2006, 03:55 AM
Yes, I did...I wanted to know if there was any others.

gabegt90
09-18-2006, 12:26 PM
yeah the change I know for 2006 panthers is rack and pinion steering when did they go to rack and pinion vs steering box?

zwack88
09-18-2006, 01:10 PM
In 03 is when they first put rack and pinion in panthers.

Nathan in MI
11-30-2006, 04:26 PM
I read in Car & Driver that the Town Car has been saved, so it's safe for another few years at least.

w00t! 500th post!

nitroracer
11-30-2006, 05:10 PM
The s-10 and ranger were and have been around almost as long.

MrMarquis
11-30-2006, 06:10 PM
I read in Car & Driver that the Town Car has been saved, so it's safe for another few years at least.

w00t! 500th post!

SWEEEET!

Here's what's being said about the future of the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis. Nothing about the Town Car though...



Despite rumors to the contrary, Ford has announced that they will continue to produce the Grand Marquis through at least 2010.

The company does plan on redesigning it along with the Crown Victoria sometime in the future, likely retiring the Panther platform altogether and moving them to the Ford D2C platform (used by the Ford Mustang). While Ford would likely replace the Crown Victoria name with something along the lines of Fairlane (or maybe even Galaxie[citation needed], to go out of Ford's plans to use names that start with the letter "F"), the Grand Marquis name would most likely be shortened back to "Marquis" to go along with Mercury naming their cars with names that begin with the letter "M".



Ford was rumored to be considering replacing the aging Panther platform with the front or all-wheel drive platform based on the D3 architecture, something Ford has denied.

Another rumor going around at Ford is that the Crown Victoria will eventually be replaced by one of two vehicles:

Ford Australia announced plans to develop the 2009 Ford Falcon on a new Orion chassis, designed initially for Left-Hand drive and converted to Right-Hand drive for the Australian market. Some speculate that this new Falcon would eventually be built in the US or exported to the US market, reviving the Falcon name.
The Panther platform would be retired altogether, replaced by a completely new vehicle based on the Ford D2C platform used for the Ford Mustang. To go with Ford's naming scheme of naming cars that start with the letter "F", the Crown Victoria name would be replaced by "Falcon" or "Fairlane". In addition, to go outside that naming scope, reviving the Galaxie nameplate has also been mentioned.
As part of Ford's The Way Forward restructuring plan, it is possible for Ford to discontinue the Crown Victoria in 2009 and grow the Ford Five Hundred for 2010. Most fullsize sedans are beginning to shrink in size, and some flagship sedans (e.g. Toyota Avalon, Dodge Charger) are shorter and smaller than the Ford Five Hundred.
Despite this, Ford has announced that the Crown Victoria's better selling twin, the Mercury Grand Marquis will stay in production until at least 2009, with the "Grand" dropped off the nameplate, so it will fit Mercury's new naming scheme of making all their cars start with the letter M. It is unclear if the front bench seating (6-passenger) feature will be retained by a redesign of the car or a renamed replacement.

On April 19, 2006, Ford Motor Company announced that the Crown Victoria Police Interceptor will remain in production "well into the future". [1]

Fordracer604
11-30-2006, 11:42 PM
that dont sound to bad if ford puts a new platform under the crown vics and grand mecs itll be here for AT LEAST and that is even if castatrophy struck ten years

interceptor1985
12-01-2006, 12:18 AM
They cant kill the Vicky name it has been around since henry#1 that would be STUPID!!!!

Nathan in MI
12-01-2006, 08:32 AM
They cant kill the Vicky name it has been around since henry#1 that would be STUPID!!!!

True, but if they brought back the Galaxie name for the full size cars, that'd be sweeeeeet!

boXman
12-02-2006, 03:33 AM
No more name ressurecting, and no more damn letters and/or numbers.

The Fairlane concept looks like a fucking toaster on wheels. An SUV, named Fairlane? The fuck?! Name ressurecting only proves to be a bad idea now days. Except the Challenger...I like the Chargers..but c'mon.

p71towny
12-02-2006, 02:03 PM
:stupid:
No more name ressurecting, and no more damn letters and/or numbers.

The Fairlane concept looks like a fucking toaster on wheels. An SUV, named Fairlane? The fuck?! Name ressurecting only proves to be a bad idea now days. Except the Challenger...I like the Chargers..but c'mon.

HerMajestysMechanic
12-02-2006, 05:04 PM
They only have plans for the CV/GM until 2009...07's are already out...2 more years. 30 years is a long run...what other platform has run that long?


Just thought I'ld bring up the GM Suburban. If my memory serves, its been in the Chebbie arsenal since the mid 50's.

The Admiral

interceptor1985
12-02-2006, 05:08 PM
I'm with Keeping the names IF AND ONLY IF!! they do a faithful job matching the car to the name ...Like the Challenger it looks and feels like a challenger should. I think they should KEEP the Vicky name and for the police cars and high performance Vick's they should call them Galaxy 500's:):drool:

MrMarquis
12-02-2006, 11:03 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing another Turnpike Cruiser for a full-size Merc. :merk:

boXman
12-03-2006, 02:16 AM
Yea, Suburbans go way back..but thats just the name. Platform has changed at some point, I'm sure.

HerMajestysMechanic
12-03-2006, 06:17 PM
Actually, since 1960 I believe, its been on the same platform as the Chevy full-sized trucks. Before that, I know it was on a wagon frame. Hence subrubans to this day, have station wagon listed as the vehicle type on their titles.

heh sorry, the Suburban is the only thing other than the chevelle, that GM ever made that I like. Learned to drive on one, spent half of the last 2 years feeding half my paychecks to one. You could call it a love/hate kinda thang.


The Admiral

88Vic
12-04-2006, 07:04 PM
The first Suburban came out in 1935. I don't know what chassis it came on though. Still, that's a long time for it to still be around. And I don't know how many chassis' the Corvette has been through, but it came out in 1953.

Enigma
01-30-2007, 09:57 PM
30 years is a long run...what other platform has run that long?
Vokswagen Beetle: 1938-2003= 65 years
Citroen 2CV: 1948-1990= 42 years
Jeep Cj: 1945-1986= 41 years
Military Jeep: 1939-1981=42 years

just to list a few

Nathan in MI
02-01-2007, 11:55 AM
Vokswagen Beetle: 1938-2003= 65 years
Citroen 2CV: 1948-1990= 42 years
Jeep Cj: 1945-1986= 41 years
Military Jeep: 1939-1981=42 years

just to list a few

How can you count the Beetle? It's not on the same platform today that it was in 1938. Only the name still exists, and then only after a lengthy interlude.

boXman
02-01-2007, 01:51 PM
The original Beetle was still made to 03....just not here.

Nathan in MI
02-01-2007, 02:40 PM
Oh....oops. :crazy:

88Vic
02-01-2007, 09:52 PM
The Beetle was still sold in Mexico up till 03 like Jeremy said. They must not have safety laws down there, cuz it wouldn't pass in the states.

BlueMarq90
06-19-2007, 09:35 PM
Car Trivia buff here,

The old VW Bugs were not officially called 'Beetles' until the 70s

Also, the "Crown Vic" name was not used during the 60s and 70s for big Fords. If they do bring a new big Ford, at least call it Galaxie or LTD.

The current Town Car is surviving since they are moving the tooling to STAP for 2008. Who knows how long?

yucatec
06-21-2007, 08:07 AM
[QUOTE=Enigma;186715]Vokswagen Beetle: 1938-2003= 65 years
Citroen 2CV: 1948-1990= 42 years
Jeep Cj: 1945-1986= 41 years
Military Jeep: 1939-1981=42 years

The Dodge Powerwagon was built from 1946-1971 and was, essentially the same machine. It got a synchromesh tranny and a slightly bigger flathead 6 but looking at them you can't tell one from another. Of course Dodge called some later trucks Power Wagons but that was just a name.

Donald McCaig

P72Ford
08-31-2007, 02:43 PM
[QUOTE=Enigma;186715]Vokswagen Beetle: 1938-2003= 65 years
Citroen 2CV: 1948-1990= 42 years
Jeep Cj: 1945-1986= 41 years
Military Jeep: 1939-1981=42 years

The Dodge Powerwagon was built from 1946-1971 and was, essentially the same machine. It got a synchromesh tranny and a slightly bigger flathead 6 but looking at them you can't tell one from another. Of course Dodge called some later trucks Power Wagons but that was just a name.

Donald McCaig

While reading about the "long production runs" in this thread, the only thing I could think of was power wagons. I believe the style changed because they didn't want to fit the slant six in the old body style. I guess there were fitment issues.

Many forest rangers, and organizations that used power wagons petitioned the manufacturer to prevent a style change. Those were rugged trucks. I just read a thing in hemmings about them. My:2cents:

yucatec
09-03-2007, 04:02 PM
Dear Trainers,
I paid 1200$ for my (286 k?) '53 in 1973, rebuilt it from the frame up, used it (maybe another 25 k) - and sold it in 2005 ($6000). It was the on-farm truck, rarely got into town. It'd do, maybe 55mph on the asphalt and shaking all over the road while beating the driver to death. It never went more than thirty miles from home. But, with chains on all four, you couldn't stop it and with that 10K winch on the front, chained to a tree, I once pulled a loaded redimix truck out of my wife's garden and anothet ime, chained to a tractor with a plow in the ground, I pulled a 40 foot barn up hill.

It was my first prestige vehicle. My 1989 COLONY PARK is my second, and at 67, I presume last.

What both had in common was available expertise. The PW had a terrific parts source (and for a long while a magazine). Still has a gather. My Colony Park has Scott and this list and parts from Pete Veitch.

A long time ago, with the Powerwagon, I faced a decision: if I restore this vehicle (I owned a contemporary after market dump rig ) then I'm going to park this in the barn, take it to shows, and watch it appreciate.

Don't much care about that. I drove that powerwagon over small trees because it could do it and tore out the jump seats in the colony park because that space is a terrific trunk.

There are those who want to restore 'em and show 'em. I'm willing to put money into a car that does what I can't find elsewhere. In my case: Driving max of 13 hrs with four five or six dogs at high speed safely. I want enough power to pass at max load or on the onramp. I did 14000 miles last year. The 21.3 mpg is okay and if I can better it or power, I will., I'll sell 'em and get something I can use.

Buying my CP and bring it up to as good or better than 2007's is dollar wise
not much different from buying a new/recently used Chevy Suburban.

I figure I've got 20 k in the Boulevard Cruiser. Could buy an equivilant Suburban for the money.

But Scott has inspected/and or replaced every gasket, every flange and every bearing on the Boulevard Cruiser.

My body guy has painted it. All paint/ no rust.

The equivilant suburban can carry the same number of dogs but isn't as comfortable or (thanks to steering and handling Scottifying) as safe in an emergency. I get 21.3: it gets 8.

And the Suburabn eats 8 mpg.

So: With this list, the helpful thoughtful people on it and Scott: I can run an 18 year old wagon two dogs and me from Va to Ill next week without worry. I expect to be comfortable, fast, commodious( that's for the dogs) and, when I pull into the pastures where the sheepdog trials or held, I expect the limited slip wpn't get me stuck.

If you can get to the resources, sometimes the old way is the best way.

Donald McCaig


Donald McCaig