Complete box panther gauge installation how-to

[85crownHPP]

becuase they are good in so many ways.

first things first, 12 volts doesnt sound like much but if you dont know what you are doing, step away from the wire strippers!

I'll tell you how i installed and wired mine, no warranties expressed or implied!

I used my cig lighter wiring for my power source for a relay that is activated by the car radio Key-On feed.
There is a nice plate of handy ground tabs behind the ashtray area... use em!
The ashtray has a light... I snipped the socket off and use the blue/red wire for gauge illumination and the the black wire (ground) as the ground for the relay.

Now!
electric gauges all need KO power and ground, illumination, and a line going to thier sensor(except volts - you'd be done already!)


for basic electronics, go here:
http://www.bcae1.com/

http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/180402/fullsize/ccw.JPG

[85crownHPP]

Coolant Temperature

Fact: your only temperature feedback is the engine light whcih tends to come on after you are already overheating

replace the stock sensor found here, next the the alternator bracket brace, with the sensor that comes with the gauge (adapters will be needed, usually included)

(image shows a mechanical type sensor and tubing)

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_251_full.jpg

[85crownHPP]

Oil Pressure

FACT: your oil pressure feedback consists of a light that comes on at 6psi... TOO LATE!!!

replace the stock sender found here, next to the oil filter. this also requires adapters and a 26mm 12pt socket to remove the old sender...

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_252_full.jpg

Due to the size of the new oil sensor you need some more fittings from lowes or somewhere... I used a 2 1/2" nipple and elbow here, both 1/4 size NPT thread.
In this pic, I used some brass plated copper pieces... these have broken on some members here. Use STEEL if you can, or try to find the factory piece from a mustang (made of aluminum) or the factory piece from a pushrod V-8 F-series truck (made of steel)

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_313_full.jpg

[85crownHPP]

TACHOMETER

the only hard part is figuring out where to put it!

simply tap into the coil, here it appears to be in the green wire.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_384.jpg

[85crownHPP]

VACUUM

a vacuum gauge will show signs of vacuum leaks, burnt valves, and some other engine conditions.
Can also be "tee'd" into vacuum lines for various devices (like the EGR valve) to see if/when they are operating.

tap into an manifold vacuum source (usually a red line in a vacuum map, or colored red but too dirty to see)

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_386_full.jpg

[85crownHPP]

AIR FUEL RATIO

is not so important but is almost too easy to install (for CFI anyway)... the one wire O2 sensor gets tapped and a ground needs to be made on the block.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_289.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_385.jpg

its nice to know things are running ideal and it sure is a nice light show :D

http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/180417/original/lDCP_2608s.JPG

[RugerP97DC]

Are your gauges all electrical?

[85crownHPP]

all except the mechanical coolant temp gauge (to the left of the console) and the vacuum.
I have an electrical temperature gauge in the console, but I cant decide to repalce the mechanical coolant gauge or use it for transmission fluid temperature... hhhmmmmm

[grandpaslincoln]

Cooooool!

I got gauges, made a nice little home for them too, but where did you get your oil pressure sender?

Also, I can't seem to get my ammeter to work, from the instructions I got, it says to tap into a wire that supplies the fuse block or some shit. I did that, and it don't work. What am I doing wrong? I am pretty good with elecronics and shit, but I can't seem to grasp this concept!!!!

Good writeup!!!!

[85crownHPP]

the electric oil pressure sender came with the guage! it should come with any electric gauge bought new.

I actually havent wired up an ammeter yet... so I dunno about that - lol

[grandpaslincoln]

Mine didn't come with a sender. I thought it was stupid myself. It's a Sunpro gauge too, I thought they were supposed to be good.

[Paul_]

thats some great info man :clap: :clap:

[85crownHPP]

GL - are you sure its an electric gauge??
where'd you get it from?

[grandpaslincoln]

Yep, it's an electric gauge. There are three posts on teh back for +, - and the sensor connection.

I got the gauge (in fact all my guages) from Partsamerica.com. I can't seem to locate a sensor to go with this thing at partsamerica either.

[marquisman]

i gots one thats electrical too!

[85crownHPP]

what a jip!!! call em up and demand a sender lol

[85crownHPP]

I forgot the pictoral tutorial on the Sunpro LED backlighting... silly me.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_557_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_58_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_424_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_423.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_425_full.jpg

[p71towny]

:bump: Whoa, could I update all my 194s in my dash to led's, no burnout and nice and bright. Jonny 5 needs more input.

[85crownHPP]

you sure can! They have lots of 194 LED replacements on Ebay.

[p71towny]

http://dts.ystoretools.com/1025/images/200x200/simrbuexma.jpg

[gadget73]

Only thing with LED bulbs is they tend to be a bit directional. The lighting might not spread nice and evenly like standard bulbs.

[85crownHPP]

Actually, depending on the cluster, you might want the directional type bulbs. I noticed in the 90-91 speedos they use fiber-optic like materiel to channel the light to the outer face of the speedo. The little collector sits right in front of the bulb, so it might work better like that.

My older speedo doesnt work like that , so I used a side emitting style (inverted lense) LED replacement

[BlackHawkA4]

Hey, Installing a tach. What's a good place to put the wire from inside the car to the engine bay? Didn't see it if you posted it.

[85crownHPP]

i ran my wires through a hole near the brake booster

[Paul_]

Dumb question, but what are the thread sizes for the senders? For example, 1/2" by 14npt.... What is ours? I'm referring to the oil pressure and the temp gauges. I'll have to determine trans temp at another time lol. The reason I ask is because I'm looking next year to install a set of Dakota Digital gauges(trans temp, volts, oil pressure, coolant temp)right above my hvac controls. Unfortunately they do not come with senders.

[gadget73]

oil pressure is 1/4" NPT pipe thread. Not sure on the temp sender but its a standard size. I want to say 1/2".

[monterey1962]

TACHOMETER

the only hard part is figuring out where to put it!

simply tap into the coil, here it appears to be in the green wire.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_384.jpg

What did you use for a key on power source for the tach? Also, what did you tap for the light source? What gauge wire should be used to extend the tach wire to the coil?

How hard is it to get through that hole in the firewall and under the dash? Anything to watch out for?
http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/283713/fullsize/hole_110.jpg

[monterey1962]

One more thing: Will hooking in the gauges interfere with the EFI comp? Do I have to set it up so that the idiot lights and wiring are still connected?

[gadget73]

What did you use for a key on power source for the tach? Also, what did you tap for the light source?

I tapped off something in the fuse box. The radio fuse I think. They make these neat little doohickys that plug in place of a fuse, then the fuse plugs into the top of it as a power tap. Its a small black thing about the size of a fuse with a short pigtail coming from it. I found them in Advance I think. Same thing for the lights, its tapped off the dash light fuse. Dimmer even works correctly that way, which frankly surprised me.


What gauge wire should be used to extend the tach wire to the coil?

I think I have 16 or 18 ga or something. Whatever I had laying around. It doesn't need to be very thick as its not carrying any substantial amount of current.


How hard is it to get through that hole in the firewall and under the dash? Anything to watch out for?

I fished it through a grommet that had been previously removed under the brake booster. Nothing special to watch out for, tho the grommets can be a bastard to poke through. I've actually just drilled holes in the rubber grommets before to fish wiring through.


One more thing: Will hooking in the gauges interfere with the EFI comp? Do I have to set it up so that the idiot lights and wiring are still connected?

No. The idiot light sender circuit is totally independant of the ECM. The engine temp sender for the computer is over by the thermostat in a fitting between the heater core hose and the manifold, and the ECM doesn't monitor oil pressure.

[monterey1962]

Thanks for the info.

Here's the fuse tap I went with (actually, it's the only one I could find in town).

http://dlcparts.com/images/Product/HHA.jpg

What size fuse should the tach need? 5amp? 10amp? Can this be used as the power source for the other gauges? If so, what size fuse could I get away with?

[85crownHPP]

10amp should be plenty - they dont need much current at all.
gadget pretty much summed it up.
For mine I used the cig lighter wiring (has its own fuse) for power and ground, and tapped into the ashtray light wire for illumination.
The hole I used was almost clear from under the dash, just the edge of a peice of insulation in the way.

edit: I forgot to mention my key on source... all I did was tap the key-on wire for the radio, and used that to trigger the relay thats powered by the cig lighter wiring.
I also have a bridged barrier strip you can see in there... since i have many many accessories :D

* this pic is old (pre-console) but the electronics in the ashtray cavity are the same*

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/316000-316999/316132_233_full.jpg

[85crownHPP]

Transmission temperature sensor

After dropping the pan, I found this to be the best spot to put it.
What you are looking at is a B&M transmission pan drain plug kit with an electric temperature sensor installed in place of the drain plug. All you have to do is drill a 1/2" hole and bolt in the special nuts and gasket. No leaks so far!


http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/284928/fullsize/tpds.JPG

[gadget73]

None of my guages are actually fused independant of the radio fuse. I didn't see the point in adding more inline fuse holders to tap off a circuit that was already protected by a fuse. They draw such a small amount of power I wasn't worried about them popping anything either. So far, no problems.

And I sorta fibbed. I have the wire taps, but they aren't actually in use right now. I currently have wires jammed under the fuse blades. The taps are in the trunk, but I've been either too busy or too lazy to install them.

Pete: is that an electric or mechanical sender? Looks electric. What temp does your trans read?

[85crownHPP]

yep, electric. So far the hottest its gotten is about 130 degrees... my engine temperature reads about 170-180 (w/180 degree T-stat). At first I thought the gauge was broken, becuause driving around town it never came off its minimun of 100.
I guess the cold weather and not having an AC condensor keep it extra cool :cool:
Of course the guage could be off... I guess Ill have to wait till summer and do some mountain driving to see for sure

[monterey1962]

Couple more questions:

1. Where does the ammeter hook up to under the hood? Any fuses needed for this or is it a direct line to the gauge?

2. My temp gauge is mechanical, but what I want to know is, is that copper line hollow and allowing coolant inside the cab or is it just a copper wire?

[p71towny]

1. A volt meter would be a better way to go, safer as well.

2. Its just copper, no coolant will enter into your cab.

O.T. Pete, what in teh fuck looks like the devils finger coming out of your mirror adjuster?

[monterey1962]

1. A volt meter would be a better way to go, safer as well.

Safer? How? What's the difference anyway? Is a fuse needed in the line?

[Grand Marquis GT]

I forget the site, but it explains why an ammeter is more dangerous, and all you really need is a voltmeter...

[monterey1962]

Damnit, I have to buy another gauge? My ProSource gauge says amps on the front, so I suppose that's crap.

Still, where do you hook in under the hood for the volt meter? I might as well just run all the wiring right away.

[Grand Marquis GT]

I don't even hook into any wire under the hood...

I think I tapped into some hot wire under the dash..

[monterey1962]

That's all it needs??? WTF? It can't be that easy, can it?

Btw, anyone have a diagram of the fuse panel for an '88 GM? Would it be the same as the '87 Cougar fuse panel? '88 manual doesn't show a diagram, but the Cougar manual does.

[Grand Marquis GT]

I tapped into some wire off my fuse panel.

Works great. :D

[monterey1962]

Interesting. So the only lines I need to run through the firewall are the temp sensor line, oil pressure sensor wire, and my wire for the new trunk light.

[85crownHPP]

yep, its that easy - a volt meter only needs any 12 switched source to run.
An ammeter is dangerous becuase you are essentially re-routing ALL the current running through the car into your dash and that gauge. It would need at least 10 gauge wire.
The copper tubing for the mechanical temperature guage is filled with a gas - its sealed off from the coolant but you still have to make sure you dont kink or break the tubing.

Oh and the 'devils finger' is a rubber chilli pepper from a set of 'chilli pepper' Xmas lights that I stuck on there one night (a special night) and there it remains :D

[Grand Marquis GT]

Oh and the 'devils finger' is a rubber chilli pepper from a set of 'chilli pepper' Xmas lights that I stuck on there one night (a special night) and there it remains :D

Yeha, I remember asking you about that when I was riding in your car too :D

[monterey1962]

Three big problems:

1. I cannot find any way to get through the firewall. I'm open to all suggestions on how to get through. There are no grommets or openings like that earlier pic and there aren't any below the brake booster. Is this because you guys are CFI/Carb and I'm EFI? Is there a different build to the cars' firewall?

2. Access to the oil sending unit location. The plate that holds the air filter box is bolted to the fucking manifold bolts. I soaked 'em with PB blaster. Two came out fine, but guess what, that's right, stripped the third one. I see only the following options: 1. pull the power steering pump and move it over (pain in the ass); or 2. take the dremel and cut that fucking third support. Again, I'm open to all suggestions.

3. I'm running out of time. Fuckin' cold weather is setting in on Friday, so I need to get this done, or at least get all the wiring strung, by tomorrow afternoon.

[p71towny]

I had to gack a hole in my grommit right above the gas pedal. It is a bitch to run the lines through. You might have to get a coat hanger, bend it straight and duct tape your wires to that and push it through. I'll try to post pics of mine when I find the cable for our digital camera.

[Grand Marquis GT]

I had to gack a hole in my grommit right above the gas pedal. It is a bitch to run the lines through. You might have to get a coat hanger, bend it straight and duct tape your wires to that and push it through. I'll try to post pics of mine when I find the cable for our digital camera.

:stupid:

However, make sure you arent binding anywhere, like around the steering shaft..

(I was trying to find a pic justin used to show the stuff going thru the grommet, but I cannot find it...)

[monterey1962]

How high up is that grommet from the gas pedal? Is it under padding or something? I must have been looking right over it.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Mine is the grommet that goes around the steering linkage...

[p71towny]

Yeah, its under padding, its a whore to get to.

[monterey1962]

Yeah, its under padding, its a whore to get to.

Nothing is ever easy, is it? :mad:

[monterey1962]

Guys, there is no grommet down there. I've just shredded the insullation on the inside and outside of the firewall. Nothing. I think I just might go ahead and drill a hole big enough to get the temp sensor through. I'll put it to the right of where the gas pedal linkage goes through the firewall.

[85crownHPP]

that sucks you dont have a grommet where I did - I cant think of any other holes big enough for that sensor without making one...

[p71towny]

Ok, I don't know how to attatch stuff yet so here's a linkt to some pics of the vics guage, the grommit is right under the wiper box, hope this helps

http://www.supermotors.org/vehicles/registry/detail.php?id=5189&s=18081#content

[Grand Marquis GT]

Ok, I don't know how to attatch stuff yet so here's a linkt to some pics of the vics guage, the grommit is right under the wiper box, hope this helps

http://www.supermotors.org/vehicles/registry/detail.php?id=5189&s=18081#content

More evidence that Tripminders were in cars BEFORE 1984 :D

[monterey1962]

p71, you're not EFI, though. You have a lot more room to work with. That damn upper intake is in the way of everything for me. Not that it matters, theres a bigger-than-necessary hole in the firewall now. Let's just say that the Dremel worked a little "too good".

[gadget73]

My 86 SEFI car has a grommet down under the brake booster. Its actually right next to the ECM if memory serves. Cant see it from inside, but I can see it from the engine compartment.

Just make sure you tape the wires up where they pass through the firewall so they don't chafe and short on the sharp edges.

[monterey1962]

All gauges are installed. Didn't do a running test 'cause it was late. Only issue so far is the coolant temp gauge won't light up. Tried a new bulb, checked the wiring, nothing. No clue on that. Also got my new light installed in the trunk. Big difference. Tomorrow will be test runs, hood insulation removal, and light install under hood. If all is well I should be able to clean it up and put it all back together. Details forth-coming.

[Paul_]

Sounds good man.

[monterey1962]

Link to Super Unknown gauge installation thread. (http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?p=73035#post73035)

[Zcliff89]

i nervously really want to run a tach in my vic as i have posted before but, dont want to screww anything up! I went into autozone one day and all they had was a tach no wires for instal? Where would i find them and how the hell would you tap into the coil? what would you have to do?

[Glen]

Three big problems:

1. I cannot find any way to get through the firewall. I'm open to all suggestions on how to get through. There are no grommets or openings like that earlier pic and there aren't any below the brake booster. Is this because you guys are CFI/Carb and I'm EFI? Is there a different build to the cars' firewall?

2. Access to the oil sending unit location. The plate that holds the air filter box is bolted to the fucking manifold bolts. I soaked 'em with PB blaster. Two came out fine, but guess what, that's right, stripped the third one. I see only the following options: 1. pull the power steering pump and move it over (pain in the ass); or 2. take the dremel and cut that fucking third support. Again, I'm open to all suggestions.

3. I'm running out of time. Fuckin' cold weather is setting in on Friday, so I need to get this done, or at least get all the wiring strung, by tomorrow afternoon.

I use a 1 inch hole saw and drilled a hole about 3 inches to the left of the brake pedal, just above the cardboard cover, and it came out just under the booster. I used a 1 inch gromet and ran everything out that way.

[85crownHPP]

i nervously really want to run a tach in my vic as i have posted before but, dont want to screww anything up! I went into autozone one day and all they had was a tach no wires for instal? Where would i find them and how the hell would you tap into the coil? what would you have to do?


The wires are hanging out of the tach - they should be included. You use crimp connectors and a wire tap connector to tap the coil - you should find these at the store as well, along with a crimping tool. Go on and buy a whole kit if you dont have one :2up:

check out

http://www.bcae1.com/

for great info

[1990LTD]

Are all of the pics in the first page working? They aren't for me but it could be the PC I'm on.

[87gtVIC]

naw they are shot. Pete has to update things.

[1990LTD]

cool. I am honestly surprised it's not because of the computer I'm on :D


Is this the little guy that gets replaced? I find that kinda funny since I had to replace a leaky one the other day :D

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=386486&imageurl=http%3A//info.rockauto.com/Motorcraft/SW1311.jpg

[87gtVIC]

that is an oil pressure switch thing. To install any oil gauge that switch will have to be removed and the correct sender(with adapter) or mechanical oil line will have to be inserted into its place.

[1990LTD]

Cool. I am getting that funky old Stewart Warner gauge pod from 91grandmarquis, so it's electric. Does that thing trigger the oil light on my dashboard? If so, does that function remain once I have the new one in?

Can I just buy a Sunpro electric sender from fleabay? I have no idea what kind of adapter I need, or if I'm getting rid of the stock oil pressure switch completely (as in, does it splice in or replace it entirely?)

[87gtVIC]

Cool. I am getting that funky old Stewart Warner gauge pod from 91grandmarquis, so it's electric. Does that thing trigger the oil light on my dashboard? If so, does that function remain once I have the new one in?

Can I just buy a Sunpro electric sender from fleabay? I have no idea what kind of adapter I need, or if I'm getting rid of the stock oil pressure switch completely (as in, does it splice in or replace it entirely?)

Yes it trigger the oil light in the dash board according to my EVTM. With it removed nothing bad happens though as in the light does not stay on etc. You will loose the function of the light but that is what the new gauge is for.

I have no idea about the compatibility between senders from different manufacturers. But one thing I can tell you is this. The oil pressure sender will most likely be shaped like a big cow bell. That big cow bell will not even come close to fitting against the engine block where the oil pressure switch sits currently. You will be in need of an oil pressure adapter thingy. It looks like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/87-93-mustang-5-0-OIL-PRESSURE-BLOCK-ADAPTER-OEM-GT-LX_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem23046d212dQQitemZ150 398116141QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAcces sories

You can find that adapter on trucks as well. Just search for them instead of paying that much for one. It is a pocket item in the junkyards that is free :)

That screws into the block and then the bell sender screw's into that. And you can be on your merry way.

EDIT my description of the oil light may be wrong. But it will not light up anyway with the thing removed.

[1990LTD]

thanks!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YK6080WHL._SL500_AA280_.jpg


thats what I was looking at.

http://www.amazon.com/Sunpro-CP7577-Oil-Pressure-Sender/dp/B00029JXMA

[85crownHPP]

Its on the to-do list!!!! :D i lost a lot of the old pics... gotta snap new ones.

[91grandmarquis]

You can buy the "T" adapter to keep your oil light sender so it doesn't trigger it, they have them under accessories on the sunpro site.

[85crownHPP]

removing our senders wont trigger the oil or temp circuits for the warning light.

[87gtVIC]

thanks!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YK6080WHL._SL500_AA280_.jpg


thats what I was looking at.

http://www.amazon.com/Sunpro-CP7577-Oil-Pressure-Sender/dp/B00029JXMA

aww that is one I haven't seen before. That would work I suppose on a sunpro gauge..no idea about a warner though.

[91grandmarquis]

http://www.stewartwarner.net/SW%20Pages/SWgaug15.html

http://www.sw-performance.com/#

That is a link to the Stewart Warner spec page for senders. It lists the senders according to gauge "capacity" not sure if they will work as this set is older, but you could call and talk to a tech there. I cannot imagine they have changed much though. The second one is the official site I believe to get tech numbers and so on.

[87gtVIC]

aww that is one I haven't seen before. That would work I suppose on a sunpro gauge..no idea about a warner though.

I know your issues are solved but I was just snooping around an the part number of that sender from amazon has the wrong picture with it. The part number is Sunpro CP7577 which according to sunpro's website has a sender that looks like I described and would require that adapter to push the sender away from the block:

http://sunpro.com/xcart/files/d_348.jpg

What they have pictured is the temperature sender.