MAGNA's AOD Buildup

[Mr. Land Yacht]

ok, so within the next year or so, MAGNA is going to get a trans rebuild with the Wide Ratio Gearset that Blaze was nice enough to sell to me.
I also have a Transgo Shift Kit going into it.

so, what else do I need to make sure that this Trans can handle 350+hp without blowing up after 20K?

Scott recommended the A+ AOD Servo..which I have...
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/577369/fullsize/img_0003.jpg

and he also recommended this bracket for the TV cable...
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/577370/fullsize/img_0004.jpg

is there anything else?

I will have a B&M Trans Kooler on it...
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/522722/fullsize/img_0011.jpg

the only other thing I can think of is amybe a bigger trans fluid pan to help keep it kooler...like this:
2qts extra.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_83042_-1

1qt extra
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SME%2D1007R&N=700+4294908331+4294904006+4294902688+115&autoview=sku

I dont think I would only go for a 1qt increase...doesn't sound worth it to me...buts ince it is quite cheaper...I might do it...what would you mangs advise?(those who knows tranny stuff.)

any other ideas are welcome...this buildup wont be done for at least 6 months...but I'd like to gather the parts when I can ahead of time so that when I have the money to get it built, I have it all ready.

[Lincolnmania]

did you get that sonnax tv cable corrector installed colin?

[88MercWagon]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly does the A+ servo do?

[Mr. Land Yacht]

that's what I was wondering. :D

umm..no I didnt Scott.
where does it go on?

[mrltd]

A+ is a waste. It is NOT needed and is very expensive. An A servo is borderline overkill due to the wider OD band on the 4r70w.

LPW makes a nice deep aluminum pan that is very reasonably priced.

[Mr. Land Yacht]

well isn't that just dandy...just wasted 120bux. :nonono:
well, cant hurt.

[mrltd]

OD will shift very harshly... but it won't hurt anything.

[gadget73]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly does the A+ servo do?

More clamping force on the overdrive band. The first AODs had the C servo, it was replaced with a B in 1986 I think for like 33% more clamping force, the A servo is something like 15% more than the B, and the A+ is some amount more than the A. It was a lot more of an improvement on the standard AOD because the overdrive band is not as wide as the one on the wide ratio setup.

[mrltd]

Yeah, all it does is add clamping force. The more HP and torque you have and if the shift kit allows WOT OD shifts, then you want more clamping force. For most WR apps (say a stock HO) a "B" servo is adequate, and so on and so forth as HP increases. For my ~300hp( and the fact that I pretty much only run my car in 1st), the A is fine, if Colin is planning top speed runs with the 400 hp his motor has, it'll prolly need the A+. And the price difference between the A and A+ these days is negligible...

[SLYDAWG]

Get the larger deep pan that adds 2qts. There are several on the market. Price shop them.
Most of the deeper pans will require a filter kit from a 4WD Bronco with its extended pick up.

What about a convertor? You will need a slightly looser convertor to get the mass moving quicker. A 'lock up' convertor for the street. A 2200 to 2400 lock up is perfect for a dd.
DO NOT go cheap on a convertor.

How about an inline spin on filter to truly filter the fluid as it returns back to the tranny?
B&M, I think, offers one that attaches to the frame, and has a fitting to install a temp gauge.

[torquelover]

Yeah, all it does is add clamping force. The more HP and torque you have and if the shift kit allows WOT OD shifts, then you want more clamping force. For most WR apps (say a stock HO) a "B" servo is adequate, and so on and so forth as HP increases. For my ~300hp( and the fact that I pretty much only run my car in 1st), the A is fine, if Colin is planning top speed runs with the 400 hp his motor has, it'll prolly need the A+. And the price difference between the A and A+ these days is negligible...

What driveshaft do you have under MAGNA302X?

[Mr. Land Yacht]

I have a stock Driveshaft, TL.

ok, so get the 2qt more pan...ok got it. I figured only 1 qt more wasn't helping much.
I have a B&M Tork Master 2000stall converter in there now....per turbo's instructions, I got the 2000 stall...since he basically built my motor. :D
so, another filter...can't hurt...and it has the fitting for the temp gauge? sweet...since I already got the gauge, that helps. :D

anything else?
I want to make sure that with my motor well tuned this trans can handle the torque/hp running thru it if the power is as high as 400hp.(relatively speaking)
I don't want to invest all this money into the trans for a buildup and have it end upblowing up on me 20K miles down the road. :D

[gadget73]

A lot of the durability is going to come from the trans builder, not so much the add-on parts. Best parts in the world aren't going to give you squat for durability and power handling if the person building it doesn't know what they're doing. Make sure the place you get to do the build is well versed in AODs, and will stand behind their work.

[turbo2256b]

Yea need one of the hdd clutch disc kits too. Havent been able to locate any online. Mabe some but cant get in on dial up. Mabe someone can direct colin to a site to purchase them.

[Mr. Land Yacht]

oh yea..I know who I'm taking to...
he's been in the Tranny business for 30 years now.

ok Dave...hmm..HDD?
Heavy Duty.....?

[turbo2256b]

yea hd there are red or blue clutch packs

[Archangel]

Red Eagle (or something like that) clutches, usually mentioned in combination with Kolene steels, look in Oregon Performance Transmissions's ebay store for them, they used to carry them last time I checked.

[DuceAnAHalf]

Red Eagle (or something like that) clutches, usually mentioned in combination with Kolene steels, look in Oregon Performance Transmissions's ebay store for them, they used to carry them last time I checked.



you also have Alto Red

[Archangel]

maybe that was it then, which ones are the better, Alto or Eagle?

[gadget73]

No Kevlar whatever you pick. They don't have great friction properties and will need a whole lot more clamping force to grab. Usually you'll see overdrive bands made from that. It holds up to heat well, but it will have a bit of a slip to it. It makes a decent choice in a track only trans but for street driven stuff, its not so great. The slipping generates a lot of heat which isn't good for the rest of the trans.

[1987cp]

What's in store for a valvebody? Not being a tranny expert, I don't know how much they really affect durability, but I was quite impressed with the one in TL's car even though I didn't go for his claimed very firm Third-to-Fourth shift at WOT at around 130mph.

Super-scary thing is, after doing some seat time in my mother-in-law's car, I'm getting friendlier with the idea of a stickshift tranny in the future ..... :p

[gadget73]

off topic BS moved to where it belongs. Back on topic ktnx.

posts moved to here:
http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?t=19986

[Mr. Land Yacht]

thank you. *breathes*

I just got the stock valve body...going to have a Shift Kit in it tho....why? is there a reason I should get a new valve body or something?

[Archangel]

I just got the stock valve body...going to have a Shift Kit in it tho....why? is there a reason I should get a new valve body or something?
Well, dunno, steel valves in aluminum bores, can make for some funky shift action.

Didn't Art Carr make a full manual valve body for the AODs tho? Or was it Lentech? In any ways that would be fun to drive, faster shifts than a manual and no clutch pedal to deal with :D

[Pirate]

thank you. *breathes*

I just got the stock valve body...going to have a Shift Kit in it tho....why? is there a reason I should get a new valve body or something?

Having thrown away a couple dozen of them due to galled valve bores, yes, either buy Performance Automatic's AOD valve body at around $190 from Summit or Jegs (I can't remember who has them, or just buy them direct from PA), or the Street Terminator from LenTech....at around $430 shipped from Canada.
Having used both?
LenTech kicks ass, they are built for the vehicle, whereas the PA VB is simply a shelf unit, one-size-fits-all.

[Mr. Land Yacht]

ok..so a new valve body would help out...ok..maybe I should get one.

so something like this?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PMA%2DPA53301&N=700+4294880856+115&autoview=sku

can someone explain to me what a Trans-Brake is? I've heard of it before...

[Pirate]

It is an electronic valve, via the valve body, which activates both the reverse and forward clutch packs, locking the car in place.

Yep, that's it.

[Mr. Land Yacht]

oh..that's interesting....thanx for clearing that up mang.

ok...maybe I'll get it...for 200bux, can't hurt....proly save my trans mang a little time in the buildup.

[DuceAnAHalf]

a trans brake is used in drag racing to reach the full stall of the converter.

say your converter is rated at a 3000 stall, well with the foot brake you may only be able to launch at 2600. If you have a trans brake it locks the transmission so you can bring the motor to the full stall at 3000 and launch there.

pretty much every turbo'd automatic car uses a t-brake to build boost before launch

[1987cp]

Do those Performance Automatic valvebodies come ready to install, or do you have to reuse your old pistons and stuff?

[Mr. Land Yacht]

ah..that makes total sense...thanx Duce.

I'm happy to report that since the Demon Carb went on, the trans has been acting normally...no slipping and it is going into each gear firmly as normal...so it will last me a longer time.
but I'm planning to build up the Trans in '08....if I have money left before next winter, I will get all my rust fixed.
my uncle wants to paint the whole car...and I was pfft. nope.
I realize that for the tiny rust spots around the car that matching new beige paint to the 20yr old paint will be extremely difficult.
but since there is next to no rust in that area, I would rather he focus on the rust in the tutone color.
but anyway, I dont think I will just blindly have him do it....I have seen the work that his buddy can do and it is excellent...but...I still will shop around...in the end, I may just have Maaco do it if they can do a good enough job...but that's not too likely.

[1987cp]

I'm told a Maaco respray can be pretty decent as long as the car's delivered to them ready to spray. Of course, that means that you've got to have all the other bits and pieces (rust repair, dent repair, block-sanding high-build primer, etc.) taken care of in advance.

[Mr. Land Yacht]

aww crap....they wouldn't do any of that?
then what good are they?!

[1987cp]

I'm sure you can have them do rust and dents also, but having the thing totally ready and wheeling it in there for them to wipe down and shoot is what I've heard is the best way to take advantage of their services. I remember seeing a special a while back that for a semi-okay price included shooting the car in a single stage solid color and 10 hours of bodywork - question to find out in a case like that is, of course, can they do what needs to be done on a given vehicle, and do it right, in the allotted timeframe? :p

[murphmobile2]

It also depends on the Maaco... I took the LTD to one Maaco and got the $900 job, turned out not so clean looking, and it's peeling/flaking in a few corners. The Beretta, got it painted at a different Maaco with the $200 job, and it turned out better than the LTD, lol. Also held up much better.

So it just depends on which one you go to, lol.

[Mr. Land Yacht]

I can see that happening...there's only 1 Maaco close by that I know of..in Troy, MI.

I'll call at least a few more shops.
I would do the prep work, but I dont know the first thing about that repair. I would have my uncle's shop do the prep work and then have Maaco paint it but that sounds pointless. :D

[1987cp]

Hm.... more motivation to buy a MIG welder .... help people weld up holes in their car bodies! :p

[P72Ford]

Colin, listen to what Michael says about Maaco. I would not have them do any body work. When you take the car there, make sure it is primed, etc. They mask and all, but they just spray if thats what you pay for. The paint isn't that bad. My old '88 was painted 5 years ago, and it still looks pretty decent, although it is fading. It was a $450 job.

Remember this: more often than not (to compensate for Murph's experience) yopu get what you pay for with a paint job. Painting a car the right way is a long, expensive process. If you are doing metal repair and such, you can spend a long time. Materials are expensive, expecially the paint itself. You can spend $500 on a gallon of paint, with ease. Then you need hardener and reducer, etc. A gallon of hardener for the paint on my car was $200+ (PPG). It may be more for a BC/CC set up too. Its easy to spend a G on the paint itself. EP (epoxy primer) isn't cheap either. I have had good luck with it though. EP does get dusty when you spray it though (necessitating a sand to smooth it out). You can spend $200+ on a gallon of primer (may not need that much) and a few dollars more on activator. Then you have time dent repair/ dings, trim removal, etc. Sanding is a bitch, IMO, and taping is the worst. Its alot of time and work, so be prepared to pay, and remember; you get what you pay for.

[1987cp]

That's true too. My friend in the resto business can spend $3,000 on the materials for a customer's paint job. One that's gotten a Competition Orange base/clear with painted-on Boss stripes (car's an original '70 Boss 302) was supposed to be running the customer as much as $30,000 all said, and that's just for paint and body.

[Archangel]

To bring this back on topic, Colin, whatcha think about them manual valve-bodies?

[Mr. Land Yacht]

I know whatcha mean P72...my 77 linc was painted by Maaco...,eh...good...but not great by any means.

manual valve bodies...please enlighten me...I am really not too familiar with Transes...you mean that Summit one?

[Archangel]

manual valve body = auto tranny acting like a manual with auto clutch, however unlike the auto valve-body putting the shifter in "D" actually puts the tranny straight in 3rd gear, and not just stop it from upshifting into OD. Can be had in forward or reverse patter, forward being like your stocker, with the reverse you obviously pull towards you to upshift, and not push towards the dash. That Summit valve body you found ain't no manual one.

[Mr. Land Yacht]

oh ok...I didnt plan on a manual valve body...sounds kool enough..but I dont think I would do it.
sounds like it would make it a manual without a clutch pedal :D

[Archangel]

lo, well ain't that what I just said? But why not want one, you're getting a new VB anyhow, might as well ramp up the cool factor

[DuceAnAHalf]

oh ok...I didnt plan on a manual valve body...sounds kool enough..but I dont think I would do it.
sounds like it would make it a manual without a clutch pedal :D
pretty much what it does, but it will shift faster than just about any manual (Lencos and pro-stock tranny's aside), and it is extremely difficult to miss a shift.


also the benefit of the reverse pattern is that if you do accidently try to go past third you go nowhere as opposed to going into neutral.
With my reverse manual if im in third and try to shift i cant pull the shifter back any further, with a standard pattern i could put it in neutral

[1987cp]

How does the shift pattern work on a manual AOD valvebody? Since, you know, there are four forward speeds and only three shifter positions.

[DuceAnAHalf]

How does the shift pattern work on a manual AOD valvebody? Since, you know, there are four forward speeds and only three shifter positions.
you buy an aftermarket shifter and the 4-speed gate plate for it. Or some of the AOD manual valve bodies use an electric solonoid to activate od, so you would use a switch to turn it on

[P72Ford]

That's true too. My friend in the resto business can spend $3,000 on the materials for a customer's paint job. One that's gotten a Competition Orange base/clear with painted-on Boss stripes (car's an original '70 Boss 302) was supposed to be running the customer as much as $30,000 all said, and that's just for paint and body.

30 G's is a lot of money, but a well done body and paint job makes anything alot more appealing. Much work/ experience is needed to get a car really flat. Then you have all that time color sanding to make it like glass...

[1987cp]

you buy an aftermarket shifter and the 4-speed gate plate for it. Or some of the AOD manual valve bodies use an electric solonoid to activate od, so you would use a switch to turn it on


Solenoid-actuated OD would make sense to me, since it could be done with the stock shifter. Unless there's a way to adapt a General Motors column shifter or something ..... (me likey column shift)

[murphmobile2]

I take it that with a manual valve body... there's no point in having a shift kit?

And since Colin is getting a new valve body, is it really that important to get a shift kit too?

[1987cp]

A shift kit is just for modifying the stock valvebody. If you replace the valvebody with a performance version, it's as if it already has a shift kit installed.

[Mr. Land Yacht]

hmm...then if I get that $190 valve body from Summit
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PMA%2DPA53301&N=700+4294880856+115&autoview=sku
would there be any point in having that Transgo Shift Kit installed???
if there would be no point and that valve body would firm up the shifts just as easy, I'll send it back, I never used it.

[DuceAnAHalf]

Solenoid-actuated OD would make sense to me, since it could be done with the stock shifter. Unless there's a way to adapt a General Motors column shifter or something ..... (me likey column shift)

unless they have indents it would not be a good set up. you have to have some type of positive stop between gears