Time to start spending money

[Pesty351]

This weekend I'm going to start ordering parts for my build. I'm planning on this kit http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/power_package/tek_ford.shtml
but I am open to suggestions if you guys think my money would be better spent somewhere else. I'm looking for 350+ horse and decent street reliability its not my DD also mpg isn't toooo important. Also I need a good trans and stall. And of course all the support (fuel and what not) I have around 3 grand to play with. I'm just wanting to know all the possibility's before I start spending my money.
--brainstorm time-:pilot:

[torquelover]

I am all Edelbrock under the hood, and the performance is underwhelming for the most part. It's a hell of a lot faster than stock, but not enough. If it's not your DD, and emissions tests are not in it's future, go wild with the build. I believe 1987cp has some interesting desktop dyno results to show you. The $3k ceiling is going to require some shrewd cost-saving measures to reach your goal. In comparison, there is over $6k in my car.

Bang for the buck, I think an aftermarket headed and intaked HO with a Mustang-based belt-driven supercharger would be ideal. There's no replacement for displacement, but I am very tempted to do it.

[Pesty351]

Since I'm working with a cfi car I think a carb swap would be easier the a fancy efi setup. Though that would be sweet.

[Grand Marquis GT]

You will benefit from a looser converter and a set or rear gears, too...

[Pesty351]

I found a t5 with pedals, cable, and all the other garbage that goes with it for $500. Now I don't know if I should stick with the auto of go 5-speed? Any one know some good engine combo's?

[mrltd]

Good deal on the T5 setup...

[Grand Marquis GT]

Go 5 speed!

[gadget73]

V8 T5 or 4 banger T5 ? If its a V8 trans for 5 bills with all the stuff thats a good deal

[Pesty351]

It was out of a 5.0 stang. Its turned into a funny story actually. I found it on craigs list and was emailing the guy back and forth. Eventually I sent him my name/phone number and its a guy I work with. A few months ago I helped him pull the motor and this tranny out of the car. Silly ain't it.

[Grand Marquis GT]

lol...

You buying it, or not?

[Lincolnmania]

means it's cheaper right?
if your gonna beat on it, rebuild it first, and make sure your rear is up to the task

[Pesty351]

lol...

You buying it, or not?

I want to get it I'm just having problems with the thought of cutting a hole in my floor.

[Grand Marquis GT]

bah.

If it bothers you that much, you can keep the peice of metal you cut out. Can always weld it back in!

[Pesty351]

I'm not so much worried about the floor its self but the carpet. As in over heating it when I'm cutting the metal. But I think I'm going to go for it. Is there anything else I will need? http://panamacity.craigslist.org/pts/674717232.html This is every thing I'm getting. I know I need a clutch and flywheel. -any suggestions?

[Lincolnmania]

youre gonna have to remove the carpet to cut the hole in teh floor mang

[gadget73]

Remove the carpet and clean it while its out. Problem solved.

[1987cp]

I am all Edelbrock under the hood, and the performance is underwhelming for the most part. It's a hell of a lot faster than stock, but not enough. If it's not your DD, and emissions tests are not in it's future, go wild with the build. I believe 1987cp has some interesting desktop dyno results to show you. The $3k ceiling is going to require some shrewd cost-saving measures to reach your goal. In comparison, there is over $6k in my car.

Bang for the buck, I think an aftermarket headed and intaked HO with a Mustang-based belt-driven supercharger would be ideal. There's no replacement for displacement, but I am very tempted to do it.


Well, for Pesty's proposed combo I'm seeing over 350hp between 6000 and 6500rpm. AFR 185s give a bit of a jump over the Performer RPM heads to supposedly over 370hp ... according to DD, swapping to a single-plane intake may then bump peak HP as high as 400.

Projected blower results sound a touch optimistic, though .... adding a 4-71 blower at 10psi with no intercooler will supposedly bump output over 500hp from 6500 to 9500 rpm! :bolt: Lowering the boost to 3psi, the program still claims a peak of up to 450hp at 7500.

That reminds me, why a flat-tappet cam in a 302? Just happen to have a nonroller block laying around?

[Pesty351]

Remove the carpet and clean it while its out. Problem solved.

My carpet is spotless that is why I'm worried.

Buy any way I think I'm going to do it. I just need to be sure about my engine combo I was told that that edelbrock kit would bolt right on to my motor. Now I'm hearing something else???

[Pesty351]

Has any one ever heard of these people? ERSON?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOP-END-KIT-FORD-302-351-ALUMINUM-HEADS-ERSON-CAM-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33620QQihZ018QQitem Z280229160247QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[Grand Marquis GT]

I have, they are owned by holley/mr gasket...

But those heads? Chinese junk.

[gadget73]

China knockoffs of probably the Edelbrock heads. I've heard bad things about those offshore castings, poor quality control, poor flow, and very inconsistant flow cylinder to cylinder.

[Pesty351]

Ok I've been reading about gt40 "x" heads. Some people are saying you still need special headers and some say you don't. What have ya'll heard? Good/Bad?

[Pesty351]

Another ? If I were to go with the Ford heads would the work better with a edelbrock torker manifold kit (intake,carb,cam&lifters) or the performer series?

[1987cp]

I imagine that depends on a combination of a) the flow capabilities of the heads and b) the RPM range of the cam you choose. With AFR 165s and a 7122 cam, DD is showing a probably-noticeable a torque loss below about 3500rpm with a single-plane, though optimistically-projected peak horsepower jumps to 415 instead of 378. With GT40-X heads DD is showing a nearly identical torque curve but with a peak of 369hp with the single plane and 342 with the dual-plane. Incidentally, it likes the AFR 165s just a touch better than the 185s.

[Pesty351]

Ok will the gt40-x heads and the edelbrock torker kit work with my short block or will I have clearance issues?

[Grand Marquis GT]

I've always lived with the theory of not going above .500 lift with stock pistons...

[Pirate]

The Torker intake is a turd of a unit for a heavy car desperately needing low-end grunt. They honestly need to change the name to "Non-Torker", and be done with it.

If I had to pick an intake manifold to use, I would go with either an Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, or Weiand Stealth. In addition, the GT40X heads can be vastly improved upon by finding a used set of AFR 185's, as the GT40X heads have inferior exhaust ports.

[Pesty351]

Ok flat out will this work on my engine. Price for power they seem to work for me I just need to know If I'm going to have any fitment issues.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/7121PK/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford%20Racing/397/M-6049-X303/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/BBK/129/1515/10002/-1

Also for the 5-spd what Clutch/flywheel should I get. This motors 28 oz. balance right?

[1987cp]

The Torker intake is a turd of a unit for a heavy car desperately needing low-end grunt. They honestly need to change the name to "Non-Torker", and be done with it.

I do believe the plan was to install it in a lighter-weight Panther with a 5-speed and deep gears and rev the snot outta it ....... dunno why the GT40-X instead of AFRs.


Also for the 5-spd what Clutch/flywheel should I get. This motors 28 oz. balance right?

I thought late 302s were 50 oz. imbalance?

[Pesty351]

I do believe the plan was to install it in a lighter-weight Panther with a 5-speed and deep gears and rev the snot outta it ....... dunno why the GT40-X instead of AFRs.

I thought late 302s were 50 oz. imbalance?

Im going with the gt40x's for about 400 reasons, and I though just the H.O.'s 50 oz balance. I could be wrong..

[Lincolnmania]

why aluminum heads? you guys like building smallblocks with the reliability of a taurus 3.8 v6?

[Grand Marquis GT]

Aftermarket stuff isn't like those, dude...

Not everything with an iron block and alum heads is junk...

[1987cp]

Im going with the gt40x's for about 400 reasons, and I though just the H.O.'s 50 oz balance. I could be wrong..

Interesting. Getting 'em for $400 less than a set of AFRs, perhaps? :)

And yeah, I'm almost certain that all 302s after about 1980 or 1981 or so used the 50 oz. imbalance. Why that would be, who knows. I imagine you could check your original parts to be sure, if nothing else the casting number on the crank would tell you for sure what you need.

[P72Ford]

AFR heads >>>>>>>> GT40X. Read some reviews/ look into some dyno tests. The AFR heads can pull out far more power than the GT40X. $400 isn't shit when it comes down to a significant power gain.

Correct me if I am wrong; I believe I saw an ad where AFR claimed an additional 75 hp over the GT40X heads found on an FRPP crate engine. The engine was unchanged, except for the heads, and it pulled out an additional 75 hp. I believe I saw the ad in a MM&FF magazine.

EDIT: Indeed; heres the article: http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article024/A24-P1.htm

I believe the AFR heads are "that good"...

[Grand Marquis GT]

Don't cheap out on cylinder heads.

I could have easily paid 1800 bucks for a set of Edelcrock performer RPMS (which are still a good BBF cylinder head) but instead spent the money to get the Kaase heads for 2500.

You get what you pay for, in terms of quality AND power. If you're spending that much, why not get the good stuff?

[torquelover]

In a day and age when people are spending $400 just for a cold-air intake, it's worth the difference for the SBF AFRs.

[Pesty351]

Ok, I bought the tranny and goodies for $350. I've been looking more into the afr's since I got the tranny so cheap. I still need to know for sure what balance these motors are. Also if I went with the 185's what carb/intake/cam combo should I go with.

[Grand Marquis GT]

DaYuM good price!!

[Pesty351]

You sig reminded me. He has a hurst shifter on it too. :)

[Grand Marquis GT]

You sig reminded me. He has a hurst shifter on it too. :)

:drool:

[Mercmarquis]

If you have a 351 in your car its 28oz balance....If its a 302 then its 50oz.

[Pesty351]

If you have a 351 in your car its 28oz balance....If its a 302 then its 50oz.

Ok thanks!

[Pesty351]

I picked up the tranny on sat. Now I just need the flywheel and clutch. Does anyone know what all the numbers on the tag mean.


I spy with my little eye something that starts with the letter "H":)

[Grand Marquis GT]

I spy a Ford 1990 Mustang 5.0L V8 World Class T5. You got one of the better ones :)

http://www.5speeds.com/t5/

[1987cp]

Is that a Hurst shifter already installed? :2up:

[Pesty351]

I may have found a motor! Do you all think this is a good deal?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280270440785&_trksid=p2759.l1259

[Lincolnmania]

a low compression pig

[P72Ford]

Thats what I was thinking, just from the fact that its a '77. 390 hp is a pipe dream, me thinks.

[1987cp]

The '79 351, at least, was rated at 8.3:1 compression and 140hp with a two-barrel 2150, tiny cam, and 2" single exhaust. The four-barrel and bigger cam would be a big help on this one ... it actually Desktop Dynoes at over 200hp (and a disappointing 330 lb-ft) if one assumes 8.3 compression and flow characteristics similar to E7 heads, which is probably being a bit optimistic.

By way of comparison, Greg's/my 351 may make as much as 400 lb-ft at low RPM.

[Pesty351]

Ok scratch that motor. I'm getting tired of finding bum motors I need to find a good one.

[Pesty351]

The fella says its 10:1 compression.

[P72Ford]

Ask him how he knows.

Are the pistons flat top? If not, what is the dish or dome? Wat size are the combustion chambers on the heads? You can figure out static compression ratio fairly easily...

[Grand Marquis GT]

The combustion chambers do look huge on those heads...

[1987cp]

Check the pics, those are stock-ish dished pistons. And dunno about D7 heads, but D8 chambers are canyons.

Also, even assuming 11:1 compression, E7 flow rates, and completely unrestricted exhaust, it still Desktop Dynoes at barely 300hp, not the 390 he claims.

[Pesty351]

He told me that thats what the machine shop who built it said. Doesn't matter anymore anyway the price has gone up more than I was willing to pay and the reserve isn't even hit yet.
The search continues.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Airman, you should just find a 351 shortblock, and rebuild it yourself. Find a good set of heads on CL or the like, and build the motor YOU want.

[1987cp]

x10 :D

Still might be interesting to interrogate the guy on what's been done in terms of porting and milling of the cylinder heads ... since that's the only way it could do what he claims.

[Nathan in MI]

Regardless of what you do to those heads, I would think it'd be darn near impossible to even approach 10:1 with those dished pistons. I'm thinking of taking one of those pistons and building a guest room in the dish...

[1987cp]

:lol:

[Pirate]

He told me that thats what the machine shop who built it said. Doesn't matter anymore anyway the price has gone up more than I was willing to pay and the reserve isn't even hit yet.
The search continues.

http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?t=21929
http://speedomotive.com/p-105-ford-351w-long-rod-stroker-kit.aspx#KitInPostBack

Problem Solved.

[Lincolnmania]

get a good used 351w from a 94-97 ford truck......they have the explorer hi torque camshaft.....with some head work or better heads and a decent intake you will have a runner

[RugerP97DC]

Hmmmm...

Let me check wit a friend.

[RugerP97DC]

OK Weiand 7515 Single plane intake
Match stock head ports to the manifold ports. Go with bigger valves in the stock heads, and match the exhaust ports to the headers.
Grab a 600-750 cfm squarebore carb.
Get a .460-.500 lift cam and we will go a bracket racing!

[Pesty351]

Ok the fella with the 351w made me an offer I couldn't refuse for a freshly rebuilt motor. He still claims its 10 to 1 because thats what the catalog that he order the pistons from said that were. Who knows? More to come.

[mrltd]

10 to 1 with what heads? Doesn't mean it actually is.....

[Pesty351]

I know but a few hundred bucks for a freshly rebuilt motor. I can live with a lower compression. Does anybody know a way I can test it to see what it is? Also I'm assuming this is a 28 oz. balance motor is that right for a '77 351? One more ? with this cam .450 int lift, .474 exh lift 280 290 duration what intake would you all recommend?

[1987cp]

If DD is any indication, that cam's torque curve sucks.

[Nathan in MI]

I assume the 280/290 duration figures are advertised duration? That's gonna be pretty wild for a 4000 pound car.

[Pesty351]

The motor came out of a '77 LTD cop car and thats what the book had as its stock cam so thats what the fella put in it.

[Pesty351]

Do I need 351 swap headers or just good ol 302's?

[Grand Marquis GT]

You CAN use 302 headers, but you will need to modify your existing exhaust.

[Pirate]

Do I need 351 swap headers or just good ol 302's?

I would go with a 1 5/8th's swap header, if the BBK shorty unit fits...

[Pesty351]

Yeah I think I'm going to go with the BBK 1511.
I just got a good deal on this yesterday. Ooo shiny.

[Pirate]

Yeah I think I'm going to go with the BBK 1511.
I just got a good deal on this yesterday. Ooo shiny.

Run a 1" open spacer on top of that at all costs.....while they make a lot of power, they don't distribute the air/fuel charge evenly across all cylinders in stock form...the open spacer fixes that.

[P72Ford]

Run a 1" open spacer on top of that at all costs.....while they make a lot of power, they don't distribute the air/fuel charge evenly across all cylinders in stock form...the open spacer fixes that.

You never told me that...

I used (at Scott's recommendation) BBK 15110 (the coated 1511's), on my car, and was very pleased with the quality and fit. I went with the coated because I wanted them to look okay down the road. Also, make sure you buy some better gaskets (the ones included are garbage), and possibly some better hardware.

[Pirate]

You never told me that...

I used (at Scott's recommendation) BBK 15110 (the coated 1511's), on my car, and was very pleased with the quality and fit. I went with the coated because I wanted them to look okay down the road. Also, make sure you buy some better gaskets (the ones included are garbage), and possibly some better hardware.

Are you running a Performer RPM intake manifold? I was making a recommendation for the RPM, not the basic Performer, however, the open spacer can't hurt any on the basic performer, if you have the hood clearance.

[P72Ford]

Are you running a Performer RPM intake manifold? I was making a recommendation for the RPM, not the basic Performer, however, the open spacer can't hurt any on the basic performer, if you have the hood clearance.

Nah, not the performer. I have the EGR spacer in place anyway, so I'm not sure whether I have the clearance or not. The intake is pretty low rise, so there may be room.

[1987cp]

You never told me that...

I used (at Scott's recommendation) BBK 15110 (the coated 1511's), on my car, and was very pleased with the quality and fit. I went with the coated because I wanted them to look okay down the road. Also, make sure you buy some better gaskets (the ones included are garbage), and possibly some better hardware.

Funny reason to drop the coin on coated headers ... I the main advantage is their greater resistance to bleeding heat off into the engine compartment, instead keeping it in the exhaust gas itself to keep up the velocity and promote scavenging.

+50 on upgrading to Mr. Gasket Copperseal exhaust gaskets. Those things rock! :2up:

[Pirate]

+50 on upgrading to Mr. Gasket Copperseal exhaust gaskets. Those things rock! :2up:

I agree on the gaskets....I just installed a set, and now my sex life is 800% better!

[Pesty351]

Alright I took your advice on the headers and carb spacer. Now I'm having problems getting the right flywheel/clutch for this thing. The fella at the parts store got me a 28oz balance flywheel out of a 85 f-150 and a clutch from a 90 stang. The problem is the fact that the pressure plate bolt holes are about a half inch off all around(too small). If I get a clutch made for the f-150 will it work with the '90 t-5 (spline count/fit in the bell housing)?

[Pirate]

Alright I took your advice on the headers and carb spacer. Now I'm having problems getting the right flywheel/clutch for this thing. The fella at the parts store got me a 28oz balance flywheel out of a 85 f-150 and a clutch from a 90 stang. The problem is the fact that the pressure plate bolt holes are about a half inch off all around(too small). If I get a clutch made for the f-150 will it work with the '90 t-5 (spline count/fit in the bell housing)?

You are going to need to get the Mustang 28-ounce flywheel, as if memory serves me correctly, the installed height of the truck pressure plate is different....the Mustang clutch (1987-up, I think) is a 10.5" clutch, with the truck being an 11"...I would just measure the diapragm finger depth of both the Mustang and Truck pressure plates to verify.

[Pesty351]

All the Mustang ones the parts store looked up were 50 oz. Any other ideas out there or maybe part numbers that would be awesome.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Try a 1979 Mustang. The earlier 302 ones that weren't HO would work.

[1987cp]

Wasn't it '81 or so that they switched to the new-style crank that uses the 50 ounce imbalance?

I notice Summit lists a variety of diamaters in the flywheel section .... wonder if that could help if scaring up a replacement part doesn't work out ....

[Pesty351]

:arg: Nobody in town seems to show any part numbers for a 79-81 mustang flywheel. Why is this so hard to get a stupid flywheel.

[Grand Marquis GT]

:arg: Nobody in town seems to show any part numbers for a 79-81 mustang flywheel. Why is this so hard to get a stupid flywheel.

Dorman #04392

Pioneer #FW163

Or, the INEXPENSIVE option!

Standard Flywheels #172

These are all off the partsamerica.com site. Might have to get it ordered, but there it is :D

[Pirate]

Dorman #04392

Pioneer #FW163

Or, the INEXPENSIVE option!

Standard Flywheels #172

These are all off the partsamerica.com site. Might have to get it ordered, but there it is :D

Tom, this flywheel uses a 10" clutch, instead of a 10.5" unit like the 1987-up 5.0 Mustangs....and there aren't too many aftermarket replacements that are going to hold up behind a 351W...

Here's the only aftermarket unit I could locate...
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FMS%2DM%2D6375%2DA302&autoview=sku


One other note? You might be able to run a stock Mustang 50-ounce down to a local engine machine shop, and have the flywheel weight cut down to a 28-ounce bob...

[Grand Marquis GT]

I'd go with the unit Pirate just suggested.

[Pesty351]

One other note? You might be able to run a stock Mustang 50-ounce down to a local engine machine shop, and have the flywheel weight cut down to a 28-ounce bob...

Now thats an idea.

[Pesty351]

Took some picts today. Thought I would share.

[Nathan in MI]

Is that Old Ford Blue? Excellent choice, sir. Looking good. :D

[Grand Marquis GT]

Damn sure is a pretty motor. Hope it performs as nice as it looks!!

[grandpaslincoln]

:drool: :drool:

[Pesty351]

Ok I scored a flywheel thats going to work. I think the only piece I have left to find is the studs that go in the t-5 to the bell housing. Anybody got some laying around?

[Grand Marquis GT]

Bolts won't work?

[Pesty351]

Yeah they probably will for some reason in my head I see studs I'd don't know why? I need to lay off the crack. I yet have another possibly dumb ? though. How important are those thin metal plates that go between the block and the bell housing?

[Grand Marquis GT]

The block plate is mandatory!

[Pesty351]

Dang thats going to be another pain in the butt it find.

[Grand Marquis GT]

www.corral.net (http://www.corral.net)

Check it out, mang!

[Pesty351]

Well its started. I got the motor out on Sunday. Tomorrow I'm picking up my flywheel bolts and pressure plate bolts. Then spending the rest of the day cleaning and painted my engine bay. I'm hoping to put the motor in this weekend.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Yeah, get rid of that dirty, nasty lopo!

[Pesty351]

Yeah I think I'm going to clean up and reseal it then put it in to my wifes Maverick. It should be pretty nice down the highway with a lopo and overdrive. Compared to 250 I-6 and a 3 speed.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Just make sure you don't keep the CFI :crazy:

[Pesty351]

Oh hell no! 4bbl with probably a small cam maybe mustang just sumthin better suited for a small car.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Hot rod Maverick?

[Pesty351]

The dowel pins that go in to the flywheel are they supposed to just sit in the holes and the pressure plate just holds them in or do they need pressed in?

[Pirate]

The dowel pins that go in to the flywheel are they supposed to just sit in the holes and the pressure plate just holds them in or do they need pressed in?

They should not be flopping around...I usually have to pop them out with vise-grips to get them out, and tap them back in....

[Pesty351]

Their pretty lose untill I put the pressure plate in then their they don't move. Does this mean the company drilled the holes out to big?
Also is that royal purple stuff really worth the price to throw in the T5?

[Pirate]

Their pretty lose untill I put the pressure plate in then their they don't move. Does this mean the company drilled the holes out to big?
Also is that royal purple stuff really worth the price to throw in the T5?

If you want my suggestion?

Start pricing out GM Synchromesh tranny fluid locally. It's absolutely the best stuff to put in there....best case, you can find three quarts; worst case, you should be able to find a tube of the Synchromesh goo and mix it with Royal Purple.

Why does it work so well?

Because regular ATF has absolutely zero lubricating properties.

[Pesty351]

Well got some work done today. Cleaned up the engine bay, mated motor/tranny, and put the motor in. The sad thing is I only put the motor in there to check some measurements. So I'm going to have to pull it back out. Thats ok though good photo opp.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Lookin' good. Hopefully you'll be burning tires soon!

[P72Ford]

Nice. Have you made the pedal assembly?

[1987cp]

Oh noes, it's a 5-speed! :bolt:



regular ATF has absolutely zero lubricating properties.

Huh?

[Pesty351]

Nice. Have you made the pedal assembly?

Not yet thats next on the list.

[Pesty351]

Did a little more work today. Had to stop untill I get to the pick'n'pull and get a new brake booster.

[Pesty351]

Hey I don't need to keep the computer in there if I'm not running the fuel injection and have a stand alone dist do I?

[Grand Marquis GT]

Hey I don't need to keep the computer in there if I'm not running the fuel injection and have a stand alone dist do I?

No sir. You can also eliminate the wiring and shit, as well as all the wiring for the missions shit. Cleans up pretty nicely, actually :D I also hop you are going to hacksaw a few inches off the bottom of that shifter handle, and drill two new holes. It will be perfect then!

Glad to see progress, it's really taking shape! Nice clean install!!

[Pesty351]

I already got rid of most of the wiring but I didn't know if anything else ran though the comp. I actually like the giant shifter handle I don't know why I just do. As far as the install being clean I just sat the shifter in the hole to get an idea of how it will sit.

[Pesty351]

Ok I got the motor back in, the clutch pedal/cable, and a few other little things done today. But of course I ran into another problem. I bought a adjustable clutch cable but it is still to long. Is there a way to cut the cable and put a new end on it to make it shorter? Or is there another way?

[Pesty351]

I've made a little more progress. Another day or so of work and it should be drivable. My wife wont let me work on it tomorrow just because people are going to be at the house for this whole Christmas thing. Anyway heres a bad night pict for the hell of it.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Awesome!!

[Cable Guys FGMQ]

Sweet........

[Pesty351]

Ok a couple of nights ago I tried to fire up the motor and got a couple fire balls out the exhaust. I thought ok good sign I just need to play with the timing a little more. It was late and I called it a night. Came back to it today and I have nothin'. Every thing is hooked up the same as I had it. All I did was reset TDC and re-dropped the dizzy. Now I can't get any spark. The set up I have is a Mallory 25 with a pertronix kit and a msd coil. I reading 12v coming off the both sides of the coil with the ignition on is that right? I attach the instructions that came with the pertronix kit for ya'lls perusal if that helps with any ideas.

[Pirate]

Ok a couple of nights ago I tried to fire up the motor and got a couple fire balls out the exhaust. I thought ok good sign I just need to play with the timing a little more. It was late and I called it a night. Came back to it today and I have nothin'. Every thing is hooked up the same as I had it. All I did was reset TDC and re-dropped the dizzy. Now I can't get any spark. The set up I have is a Mallory 25 with a pertronix kit and a msd coil. I reading 12v coming off the both sides of the coil with the ignition on is that right? I attach the instructions that came with the pertronix kit for ya'lls perusal if that helps with any ideas.

I've installed somewhere between 20-25 of the Pertronix kits...and I've only killed one...the first one.....so I have some questions:

1. Is this an oil-filled Blaster II coil? If so, the coil itself only supposed to be getting 9 volts, which requires a resistor, but the Ignitor needs 12....please continue reading.

2. If this IS a Blaster II coil you are using, then you need to hook up the Pertronix via' "Figure 3", where you split the wire normally going into the + side of the coil, bypassing the resistor, and sending 12V straight to the pertronix. If you have a resistor, and wired it up like 'Figure 2', you may have fried the Pertronix. Likewise, if you ran 12V to the oil-filled Blaster II coil (if that's what you are running),, and 12V to the Pertronix, that may have killed it also. That's how I scored my one Pertronix kill, by running 12V to both the coil and Ignitor.

3. If you are running the 'E-Coil' blaster, keep in mind that Pertronix doesn't want you running the epoxy-style coil (like on the Ford EEC-4) with their ignitor...that can also cause failure, along with leaving the ignition on for any length of time. The Ignitor II has a microprocessor preventing such damage, but the regular Ignitor is just as susceptible to damage as a regular old set of points if you leave the key on.....which will cause the basic Ignitor to get hot and cook itself...the newer 'II' version simply shuts itself off if it detects that the engine isn't running, but power supply is armed.

Good luck, sir.

[Pesty351]

Great info!
Ok the coil is a msd 2f I'm assuming thats the same as a blaster 2 and i hooked it up like fig 2. Does this mean every thing is fried or just my coil? Or can I just hook up a resistor and by fine?

[Pirate]

Great info!
Ok the coil is a msd 2f I'm assuming thats the same as a blaster 2 and i hooked it up like fig 2. Does this mean every thing is fried or just my coil? Or can I just hook up a resistor and by fine?

To be entirely honest with you, I've only used the Blaster Ford coil once, and I don't recall a ballast resistor anywhere in the stock Ford wiring, off of the top of my head, anyway.

My recommendation would be to call MSD tech support Monday and verify whether or not the Blaster 2F has an internal resistor.
http://www.msdignition.com/page.aspx?id=4209

[P72Ford]

I have a ford blaster II coil on my carbureted 351W, and I have a ballast resistor installed, with a DS II ignition. Seems to run fine. I never tried to bypass the resistor, but I didn't see one installed in the factory schematics either.

[Pirate]

I have a ford blaster II coil on my carbureted 351W, and I have a ballast resistor installed, with a DS II ignition. Seems to run fine. I never tried to bypass the resistor, but I didn't see one installed in the factory schematics either.

I had a 2F on my 1985 Mustang GT....I can't recall whether or not there was a ballast resistor anywhere on the car, but that wouldn't matter since I essentially had the same DII system that almost every other DII-equipped vehicle possesses...and I can't recall a resistor on those, either.

[Pesty351]

IT RUNS!!!!!!!

The pertronixs was fried. Swapped in a new one with the resistor in place and it fired right up. Now I just have to tie up all my loose ends and it will be drivable.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Wicked! Let us know how it runs :D

[351m]

Better yet, lets see some video...

[grandpaslincoln]

I had a 2F on my 1985 Mustang GT....I can't recall whether or not there was a ballast resistor anywhere on the car, but that wouldn't matter since I essentially had the same DII system that almost every other DII-equipped vehicle possesses...and I can't recall a resistor on those, either.

From my experience with my carb swap (I decided to use a points ignition the first time around, that was a disaster, seeing as how the condenser kept getting heat soaked and the car wouldn't run after sitting) and I discovered there is a resistor wire in the harness somewhere. I couldn't locate it exactly, but it's there. Not sure why the EEC IV coil would need it but I guess it makes sense. 12V to the coil for startup, then switch to 9V since the coil isn't designed for continuous 12V operation? Anyway, I found it in the wiring diagrams in the repair manual for the Lincoln.

[Pesty351]

The guys a seco told me to use a resistor from a 70's dodge truck. I guess most older cars uses a resistor wire but with me hot wiring it it didn't work. I take a video later and post it so ya'll can see how it runs.

[Grand Marquis GT]

The guys a seco told me to use a resistor from a 70's dodge truck. I guess most older cars uses a resistor wire but with me hot wiring it it didn't work. I take a video later and post it so ya'll can see how it runs.

Yeah, i've used those before, can get them off the shelf at advance. Also MSD make a resistor. Duraspark sucks without the resistor, once I got the resistor I was fine. Eventually I ripped it off and got a 6AL though. Haven't looked back.

[Southern_Pride]

Duraspark sucks with the resistor. I couldn't get more than 10 hours from a box. Cars that came with carbs ussually had a resistor wire in the harness. EFI I'm not sure. But for my money Ill keep my HEI. Hard to fuck one of em up. Sounds like it should be fun though.

[P72Ford]

MSD has a resistor part number, and thats what I used. It has never crapped the bed, and I have never wrecked a box either.

[Pesty351]

Ok now I fried the resistor. I'm about to lose my mind. The guys at Seco told me that this pertronix kit was the easiest way to go yet I'm still managing to fuck it up. I don't
know where to go from here.

[P72Ford]

Why not just use a DS2 box and dist? That, or buy a GM HEI style 1 wire...

[Pesty351]

The pertronix was about $200 cheaper a suppose to be easier.

[Grand Marquis GT]

I used a DSII dizzy, and an MSD 6AL. Works well, and works with just about any coil.

What kinda dizzy you using? A 6A should work, possibly even an MSD 5.

[bobtownboy]

I run the blaster on my 351,never a prob.,But im running the stock Ford "Box"

[Pirate]

Ok now I fried the resistor. I'm about to lose my mind. The guys at Seco told me that this pertronix kit was the easiest way to go yet I'm still managing to fuck it up. I don't
know where to go from here.

It is the easiest way to go.

You have a verified 12 volts going to the original coil wire, checked with an actual voltmeter, correct?

Go back through your harness setup. You should be having 12 volts go through the Pertronix, but only 9 or so to the new Blaster 2F, AFTER a resistor.

Concerning the 'resistor wire' in Ford applications, I am now recalling my previous experience retrofitting DSII boxes in older Fords.....I had to find a separate 12-volt 'activate' wire off of the actual ignition switch, as the switch itself has the resistor in it, not the wire. There is one 12v wire that goes on with the ignition, but doesn't shut off when you activate the starter (the fun part is finding the wire, because the fuse box doesn't have any 12V ignition leads that stay on with the starter switch activated).

It might be entirely possible that you have to run another lead directly off of the ignition switch...but if the car had an EFI 302 in it...I don't think that will be the case.

If you are still having trouble with it, PM me a phone number, and I can try to walk you through it.

[P72Ford]

I bought a DS2 dist. for $60, and the box was $20.

I have seen GM style HEIs for 170.

[Pesty351]

Ok I found a guy locally that actually knows what hes talking about. The first guy told me no resistor, the next guy told me to get a resistor and put it in front of everything-wrong. The pertronix needed to get the full 12v and the coil needed the resistor. Like pirate just said. Re wired everything and works great. Ran it for a half hour to start the break in. Now I just need to rap everything up.

[Pirate]

Ok I found a guy locally that actually knows what hes talking about. The first guy told me no resistor, the next guy told me to get a resistor and put it in front of everything-wrong. The pertronix needed to get the full 12v and the coil needed the resistor. Like pirate just said. Re wired everything and works great. Ran it for a half hour to start the break in. Now I just need to rap everything up.

Yay!

[Southern_Pride]

HEI can be had for under 100 on ebay. I love mine and refuse to go back. Just limited on airfilters. Glad to hear you got it going.

[Pesty351]

Yeah I pretty much refuse to use a hei anyway theres just something wrong about putting gm parts on my ford. And the DSII wouldn't put out as much energy as the flamethrower.

[Pirate]

HEI can be had for under 100 on ebay. I love mine and refuse to go back. Just limited on airfilters. Glad to hear you got it going.

Yeah, to clear the Pertronix HEI for the 302, I had to use a flat air cleaner base with a spacer to clear it while using a 14" air cleaner...

[Grand Marquis GT]

Well...


How's it run/drive, Airman?

[Pesty351]

Likny's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdSutzp8KWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlFtICwYUFs&feature=channel_page


I still have a bunch of odds and ends to do but it moves! Runs fairly good for my timing gun being broken. A buddy of mine is bringing his over tomorrow. Does anyone know if I can use the same speedo gear with the 5-speed? Also what is the correct way to adjust the shifter stops?

[87gtVIC]

I have no idea to your questions but it sounds bad ass, i suspect the exhaust is not done., and put a damn fan shroud on, the video is scary.

[Pesty351]

Your right about the exhaust I still need to put the foot of pipe that will take it out the side. :p I'm going to go elec with the fan so I wasn't to concerned with the shroud.

[87gtVIC]

gotchya really nice project you have done

[Pirate]

Likny's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdSutzp8KWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlFtICwYUFs&feature=channel_page


I still have a bunch of odds and ends to do but it moves! Runs fairly good for my timing gun being broken. A buddy of mine is bringing his over tomorrow. Does anyone know if I can use the same speedo gear with the 5-speed? Also what is the correct way to adjust the shifter stops?

Concerning the speedo gear....
No, get one for a 5-speed.

Concerning the T5 shifter stops....simply pull the shifter into either 3rd (forward stop) or 4th (rearward stop). The problem with the T5 is that it doesn't have a collar on the outward end of each gear, so without the bolt in place, it tries to overshoot right off of the end of the gear face during hard shifts...simply pull it back until it's in gear, then let go of the shifter...then tighten until the bolt just barely touches the shifter handle.

[Pesty351]

Thats easy enough.

[Pesty351]

Drove it around town today. It ran pretty good most of the time but occasionally especially on sharp turns it seems to be have fuel starvation issues. Not sure whats up with that yet. My air cleaner is pinching my fuel line a bit so that could be it. The only other problem I've been having is 3rd gear likes to grind and is pretty noisy. All in all though for the first time driving it around it was pretty successful.

[Pirate]

Yay, third-gear-grind! Get ready to rebuild it soon.

[p71towny]

Sweet engine!! Sounds mean!

[Pesty351]

Yay, third-gear-grind! Get ready to rebuild it soon.

Yeah thats kinda what I was figuring but what do you expect for a used $300 tranny right.

[Pirate]

Yeah thats kinda what I was figuring but what do you expect for a used $300 tranny right.

If you have trouble finding someone to do it right, let me know, I have a personal contact here who does phenominal work on T5's...

[Pesty351]

I figure I'll drive the tranny till it blows up then rebuild it. Do ya'll know if lucas makes a additive that will shut it up so I don't have to listen to it.

[Grand Marquis GT]

How's it drive? Plenty of power? Order the banjo fitting for your fuel line, so it points downward off the carb.

[Pesty351]

I haven't really got on it yet I want to get the motor nice and broke in first. I beat the bottom of my air cleaner with a hammer and that fixed the fuel line issue.

[87gtVIC]

at least you got to beat on something lol

[Pesty351]

How do you think I got the clutch pedal to fit. :p

[Pesty351]

Ok so I've been driving it back and forth to work everyday this week. Its been great. Until today after work I went down to seco about 20 min there and 20 min back. When I was about 5 min's from home the whole car started to shimmy. BAD. Steering wheel, shifter, everything. I stop to check the easy things wheel falling off, driveshaft, and general look at everything. Didn't see anything wrong. Drove it the rest of the way home and the shimmying came and went. It seemed to be somewhat speed related but wasn't consistent. When I got home I smelled a burning rubber plastic smell but still couldn't find anything wrong. I'm going to go put it on jacks now to see if I can find anything but was wondering if ya'll have anything specific in mind to look for. Any ideas?

[Grand Marquis GT]

Weird. Might be something totally unrelated...

[Pesty351]

Well went out a jack up the car and both of the front wheels when lock-up solid. So I took off the caly's sprayed'um with a little PB blaster and put'um back on. Seem's to have fixed the problem. Hopefully it won't come back.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Oh so the calipers were locking up?

[Pesty351]

Yup.

[Pirate]

Time to replace them.

[Pesty351]

Why would both of them go bad at once. Seems a little weird to me.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Sure there isn't like a hard line being pinched somewhere?

[Pirate]

Why would both of them go bad at once. Seems a little weird to me.

I don't think either of them 'went' anywhere. The car sat for some time, during winter, and water tends to be absorbed into brake lines due to condensation. Water then causes rust....and rust seizes calipers.

Problem solved, lol.

[1987cp]

What is your recommendation, O great piratey person, for keeping said moisture from condensing into said brake fluid at the caliper end of things?

[Pesty351]

I don't think either of them 'went' anywhere. The car sat for some time, during winter, and water tends to be absorbed into brake lines due to condensation. Water then causes rust....and rust seizes calipers.

Problem solved, lol.

Winter? Its been in the 60's and 70's the whole time the car sat. I fiqure this weekend I will take the wheels off check all my lines and give them a good bleeding and see where that leaves me.

[Pirate]

What is your recommendation, O great piratey person, for keeping said moisture from condensing into said brake fluid at the caliper end of things?

Flush the brake lines occasionally, once every couple of years or so. I forgot that Pesty lives in Florida, but the suggestion still applies, even in his situation.

[p71towny]

Sitting= bad for most components of cars. Seals get shitty, stuff sticks and salt air can fux up lots o stuff. I dunno, just use it or loose it.

[Pesty351]

It only sat a little over a month. I haven't had a problem with them since. I'm still going to keep an eye on them though. Now I'm in the search for a exhaust shop that is willing to work on a car with no cats and do side pipes. All I need is the tailpipes fabed but there all these law things that people a afraid of breaking.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Shouldn't have a problem getting tailpipes if the section where the cats are is intact (even if there is no cats)

If you want, I have a spot right near Eglin that will do them, he did mine.

[Pesty351]

Who and where and how much?

[Grand Marquis GT]

Country Corners Discount Tires and Exhaust, it's about 1.5 miles away from the back gate of Eglin, on John Sims Parkway. 850-678-1762. Real nice older gentleman runs the place, I gave him all my exhaust business. Good for tires too!

[Pesty351]

Well the brakes started dragging again. So I broke down and bought new cali's. So I figured if I was changing those I'd might as well put new rotors&pads on too. Then I figured if I was going to have off the disks I would put new bearings on too. About $100 later I have a bunch of new fun parts to play with.

[Pesty351]

A little before & after.

http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15013&d=1233199998

http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15014&d=1233199998

[Grand Marquis GT]

Looks good, mang!

[Pirate]

All of this hard work is only going to lead to tears...

[Pesty351]

hows that?

[Pirate]

hows that?

It isn't, I'm merely cracking jokes.

[Pesty351]

ok I didn't know where you were going with that. :)

[Pesty351]

I'm Back! Well not that anyone probably noticed but my computer was down for a couple weeks (power cord broke). Its ok though gave me sometime to do some organizing of my chaos. Now I just need to clean and shine which I hope to do with this weekend. Its still running good did a little more carb and timing tuning and its making pretty good power now. It will roast the tires though second at about 3/4 throttle. I have yet to stomp on it.

http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15282&d=1234997177


http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15283&d=1234997177


http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15284&d=1234997177


http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15285&d=1234997177

[Grand Marquis GT]

Glad to hear it performs as good as it looks! Hopefully i'll get to check it out within the next couple months!

[87gtVIC]

140 speedo or gtfo. lol looks nice, real nice. I am extremely jealous. I hope it treats you good, and lets you rape the shit out of it out on the street.:megadeth:

[Lincolnmania]

very nice!

[Pesty351]

Thanks Ya'll!

140 speedo or gtfo.

My plan in the future is to pull the cluster out and make my own using something like this... http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=VDO%2D600905&N=700+115&autoview=sku
with diamond plate backing.

[87gtVIC]

Thats cool to man

[Pesty351]

Finally found something I like to replace the EFI emblems on the side of the car.


http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/59656/59656-md.jpg

[Grand Marquis GT]

Finally found something I like to replace the EFI emblems on the side of the car.


http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/59656/59656-md.jpg

Yes. YES!!!!! :drool:

[Pesty351]

I thought you would like that.

[Grand Marquis GT]

How'd ya guess?

[Pesty351]

My Oil pressure has started to drop to 25 psi at idle. Is this right? It seems low I figured 35-40 would be more appropriate. Once it gets over 1200 rpm's or so it gets back up the 50psi. I was thinking the oil pump gasket might of crapped out on me. Or am I just paranoid? I stopped driving it until I know for sure whats going on.

[87gtVIC]

Mine does the same thing when it is warmed up nice and good. IN gear and at idle it goes low on me. maybe different for me though because i just have a stinking good for nothin lopo 302

[Pesty351]

How low does yours go? Any other input out there?

[Pirate]

I'd do an oil change, and cut apart the old filter to check for metal shavings. Otherwise...if you used a standard-volume pump for this engine, it doesn't sound too bad.

[87gtVIC]

How low does yours go? Any other input out there?

I don't recall an exact number but i will make sure to make note of it next time i am driving for you.

[P72Ford]

The tired 351 in my '88 drops to 20 ish at hot idle, with new mains and rods. The engine has close to 175K on it.

The 351 in my car has about 140K, and holds 50 psi hot idle all day long. Both are with 15W40. There is some variability.

You are measuring it with a guage? No crimps in the line or anything? What is the tolerance on the gauge?

[gadget73]

My 302 idles hot at about 55 psi. You only need about 10 psi per 1000 rpm, so 25 at idle is enough. Did it suddenly drop from some higher figure, or has it slowly dropped to this point as the motor breaks in? My motor used to hold closer to 70 psi at idle, but after about 5k miles it fell to where it is now.

[Pesty351]

It slowly dropped to where it is now. I was just worried about it dropping more. You all gave me some good ideas I'm going to check out tomorrow.

[Grand Marquis GT]

My vic has a hot idle of about 50, but it's a fresh 302 :crazy:

[87gtVIC]

Oh i just remembered...after 5 minutes local driving, transitioning to 15 minutes highway driving then stopping on a side street in gear i get 25 PSI. But i always notice that after i change the oil that low number is usually higher for quite some time then it gradually gets to around 25.

[Pesty351]

Yeah I changed the oil and now it sits close to 30. I'm Happy. Thanks.

[Grand Marquis GT]

How quick is it? It's probably a tire-frying beast...

[Pesty351]

Its pretty quick but I have a serious wheel hop issue to deal with. Ill try to make a video to show.

[87gtVIC]

I recall Blaze having the same issue.

OH and what color is your vinyl top?

[Pesty351]

Brown. I don't know if it has a exact name or where to find what it would be called.

[87gtVIC]

lol i dont either, i just wanted to know if it was black or brown.