Type F in a AOD?

[hav24wheel]

I'm planning on replacing the pan gasket and filter on my 83 LTD, at the same time doing a shift kit. I have plenty of Type F at home, so is that stuff good enough to run in my AOD?

[mrltd]

If you want to replace the trans again, go ahead and use the type F.

[Brown_Muscle]

Why is it that a fluid change tends to doom the AOD's? Mine was flushed and the fluid changed maybe 10K miles ago and im at 114K...so i guess i lucked out.

[hav24wheel]

Well i have not replaced the trans in this car ever, its got 119,000 miles on it and the trans fluid is looking kinda dark. i just figured if i where to change it with what i had at the house it would be good, but if Type F will kill the trans, i'll go buy the Mercon V.

[DuceAnAHalf]

type F is bad. mercon III is what came in it. Mercon V is good, but expensive. V is required on all Ford automatic transmissions after 95 or 96 IIRC

[hav24wheel]

The only reason i asked about Type F is i run that stuff in my Off-road rig with a C6(1978), i have beat the hell out of that trans, heated it up untell you could smell it in the cab, nutral drops, go from reverse to drive without letting the engine drop below 3 grand, and that trans is the ONLY thing i have not replaced. i have had it for 6 years. i do change the fluid when it gets bad though...

[mrltd]

A C6 isn't an AOD, they use different fluids.

[DuceAnAHalf]

if you use Mercon III in the C6 you can get a little firmer shifts. at least thats what i have heard. my aftermarker C4 requires Mercon III, but thats cause of the special clutches and bands i assume

[hav24wheel]

Well the C6 is going to get Type F tell it dies, its got a shift kit, and a 2500 stall converter in it, shifts nice. As for the AOD this is the first one i have had, thats part of the reason i asked about the fluid. i do know they don't have a very good reputation(sp?) compaired to the C4, and C6. I'm still learning when i comes to this trans.. hell i was hesitant on adjusting the kick down on the dam thing, due to reading about peoples problems with them.

[gadget73]

Dexron/Mercon III or V in the AOD only. The only place for F on a box is the power steering pump.

[1987cp]

i do know they don't have a very good reputation(sp?) compaired to the C4, and C6.

Ssshhhhh!!!! People around here HATE C4s!

[Pirate]

Well the C6 is going to get Type F tell it dies, its got a shift kit, and a 2500 stall converter in it, shifts nice. As for the AOD this is the first one i have had, thats part of the reason i asked about the fluid. i do know they don't have a very good reputation(sp?) compaired to the C4, and C6. I'm still learning when i comes to this trans.. hell i was hesitant on adjusting the kick down on the dam thing, due to reading about peoples problems with them.

Just a polite little reminder....AOD transmissions don't have 'kickdowns'. That's a throttle valve cable, and very sensitive to monkeying around with it....

[Southern_Pride]

I love 3 speed transmissions. Just not with my 4.10 gear.

[hav24wheel]

Just a polite little reminder....AOD transmissions don't have 'kickdowns'. That's a throttle valve cable, and very sensitive to monkeying around with it....

The only cable on my trans is the speedometer cable, it has a rod from the TBI to the side of the trans.....

[1987cp]

TV cable, TV rod, does the same thing.

[Archangel]

Basically where Pirate and 1987cp are getting at is that you can run your C6 with just the vacuum line attached and the kickdown is purely optional, whereas the AOD don't have a vacuum line and instead uses that rod to adjust the line pressure so adjusting the rod can save or kill an AOD.

Also, what they said on the fluids, AOD takes Dextron/Mercon III, which is your regular trans fluid that can be found about anywhere for like $3 a quart. Type F has different hydraulic properties, and the AOD valve body will not tolerate it for long.

[hav24wheel]

O ok.. i see now. i guess i really have not looked at the trans too much yet.. i have read about how to set the tv cables, but have not really found too much about the proper seting on the rod settings... off to the "stickys" i go...

[Archangel]

Well you're actually supposed to do it with a pressure gauge installed in one of the ports on the passenger-side of the trans, but mine I just set it to near max TV pressure - unhook cable from TB, manually move the TB to WOT state, yank on the cable till the trans gets to WOT state, then back off the cable a tad and hook it back to the TB lever.

Be advised, however, that the TV rod on the early AOD works opposite to the cable found on later AODs - when a cable disconnects the trans goes to idle line pressure and you burn up the clutches, whereas when the rod gets loose the trans defaults to WOT line pressure and you can really do much damage to it at all. Not sure as to why Ford went from your setup to the cable one, especially since the same exact logic can be executed with a cable as well... Take a pic of your TBI linkage tho, and post it here, as there are two ways the TV rod can be hooked up to the TBI and adjustments of those are totally opposite, and I'm not sure which setup Ford used.

[87gtVIC]

Well you're actually supposed to do it with a pressure gauge installed in one of the ports on the passenger-side of the trans.

:worship: you are the first person i heard say that critically correct information.

[Archangel]

Nope, not really, Thain repeats it times and again whenever that question comes up, but no one seems to listen.

[87gtVIC]

Nope, not really, Thain repeats it times and again whenever that question comes up, but no one seems to listen.

ok then lol :worship: you are the second person to say it.

[gadget73]

I don't follow my own advice. I don't have the guage or the spacer block. I screw with it till it feels right. The LSC has a zip tie in there adding pressure because I didn't feel like unhooking it and doing it the right way.

[82LTDQS]

A good friend of mine has a panther with an AOD. It was running fine. He did his own "shade tree mechanic" tranny fluid change and used type-F. His trans blew a week later. At first we though it just went bad till he mentioned the type-F thing.

[1987cp]

Basically where Pirate and 1987cp are getting at is that you can run your C6 with just the vacuum line attached and the kickdown is purely optional

When did I say that? :p I like automatic WOT downshifting!

[hav24wheel]

Take a pic of your TBI linkage tho, and post it here, as there are two ways the TV rod can be hooked up to the TBI and adjustments of those are totally opposite, and I'm not sure which setup Ford used.

I'll do that some time tomarrow. I had it adjusted like i would a kickdown on a C6, where both the TBI and the trans where at WOT at the same time, but the trans wouldn't shift into overdrive when i was at WOT pushin 5,000 RPM on the tach. lol so i tryed to fallow the adjustment procedure on the sicky http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?t=2601 But on the TBI it does not even have a screw with 13 threads, it only has about 10-11 threads.. But i do have it set now so i get a 3-2 downshift at 45mph...

[Archangel]

Your initial adjustment was pretty good, especially considering that AODs are not supposed to stay in OD at WOT conditions - there is actually a valve body modification that is needed to allow that, tis part of some aftermarket shift kits. 3-2 downshift at 45mph seems a bit high, but at the same rate that's exactly where the OD-3 downshift happens with the factory settings, so your current adjustment is still way better than factory.

[hav24wheel]

Really? i thought it should shift into OD some time even at WOT.... i didn't want to run it much past 5,000 RPM. But this is the first OD tranny i have owned. lol. the shifts felt alot better with the first setting i had it at, they feel alittle "loose" for my liking right now. but i think a shift kit will help that.. and playin with the adjustment a bit more..

[Lincolnmania]

not supposed to shift into overdrive at wide open throttle

[82LTDQS]

Basically where Pirate and 1987cp are getting at is that you can run your C6 with just the vacuum line attached and the kickdown is purely optional, whereas the AOD don't have a vacuum line and instead uses that rod to adjust the line pressure so adjusting the rod can save or kill an AOD.

Also, what they said on the fluids, AOD takes Dextron/Mercon III, which is your regular trans fluid that can be found about anywhere for like $3 a quart. Type F has different hydraulic properties, and the AOD valve body will not tolerate it for long..


Im thinking of going with a C4. I know it needs a vacuum signal from the engine. Some mention that the kickdown lever/cable is optional. I understand that, but does it come with a cost? I dont mean with reliability (I know the whole bit about how the AOD cable/lever works differently.) I want ot keep things simple under the hood, so originaly did not want a kickdown. However, I dont want to down shift manualy. Whats the negative to not running a kickdown? If there is none, then why is it even an option to have one? Thanks

[gadget73]

No kickdown means no passing gear. Floor it when you're in third, and it will not downshift. You can drop it to second manually with the gear shifter though. Basically it makes for better acceleration.

[hav24wheel]

Well the kick down on the C4 controls what speed it will down shift and upshift.. if you adjust the kickdown to its tightest setting it could shift up a gear at up to 5,000 or more RPMs at WOT, if there is no kickdown rod it will shift around 3500 RPM at WOT(if i remember right)


EDIT: Can you make the AOD shift up at a higher RPM? and how?

[Archangel]

No kickdown means no passing gear. Floor it when you're in third, and it will not downshift. You can drop it to second manually with the gear shifter though. Basically it makes for better acceleration.
Not quite, it will drop a gear cause of the low vacuum signal, it just won't be as quick as with the kickdown connected.


Im thinking of going with a C4. I know it needs a vacuum signal from the engine. Some mention that the kickdown lever/cable is optional. I understand that, but does it come with a cost? I dont mean with reliability (I know the whole bit about how the AOD cable/lever works differently.) I want ot keep things simple under the hood, so originaly did not want a kickdown. However, I dont want to down shift manualy. Whats the negative to not running a kickdown? If there is none, then why is it even an option to have one? Thanks
You won't have to downshift manually, unless you're in the habit of stabbing the throtle as you casually drive. The only times I shifted my old TH350 manually was racing someone, good 90% of the time the vacuum modulator took care of both upshifts and downshifts just fine.


Well the kick down on the C4 controls what speed it will down shift and upshift.. if you adjust the kickdown to its tightest setting it could shift up a gear at up to 5,000 or more RPMs at WOT, if there is no kickdown rod it will shift around 3500 RPM at WOT(if i remember right.
Nope, the C4 is still vacuum-regulated, the kickdown only forces an immediate downshift and increased line pressure. Upshifts and really the entire regular shift schedule are still handled by the vacuum modulator, which you can usually adjust to get the shift points where you want them.


EDIT: Can you make the AOD shift up at a higher RPM? and how?
Yes you can, you need a high-revv governor for it. I believe the factory Mustang one will give you 4800 rpms at WOT (4200 rpms is our factory setting), and there are aftermarket ones for higher engine speeds?

[1987cp]

The Transgo "AOD-HIREV" governor kit nominally increases WOT shifts to 5500rpm - you can tailor it slightly one way or the other with the TV cable. However, seems I've heard that they only recommend installing it if you already have their valvebody kit installed.

I hope to be able to give mine a proper test soon - the 351 I took out was suffering from valve float above about 4500rpm, and the temporary 302 replacement is having stumbling issues at present.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/trg-aod-hirev_w.jpg (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TRG-AOD-HIREV&N=700+115&autoview=sku)

[hav24wheel]

Nope, the C4 is still vacuum-regulated, the kickdown only forces an immediate downshift and increased line pressure. Upshifts and really the entire regular shift schedule are still handled by the vacuum modulator, which you can usually adjust to get the shift points where you want them.

I'm going to disagree with that.... the up shifts at WOT can be adjusted with the kickdown on the C4 and C6.


Thanks for the heads up on the Trans go kit 1987cp

[82LTDQS]

Uhh. I hate that ugly kickdown lever or cable. Thats is, IF I go with the C6. However, I dont want to give up my automatic downshift. Dows the C4 use a kickdown lever/cable??? My plan all along was to get a new or rebuilt AOD, but they are expensive and seem to fry left and right. I dont feel like screwing with that pressure control cable.

[gadget73]

Yes, the C4 has the rod. Most transmissions have one, the exception i know of is the TH400 (prob the TH465 too, or whatever the hd version of the 400 is). Theres also the option of electronically controlled transmissions, those just need a TPS on the carb or throttle body for controller input. Thats a thousand dollar option to get rid of a $5 piece of metal thats on a ton of cars. Final option that comes to mind that does not involve electronics or kickdowns is a manual trans.

[Archangel]

I'm going to disagree with that.... the up shifts at WOT can be adjusted with the kickdown on the C4 and C6.
Well, that's something new to me, but then again I never played with those things much to begin with - care to elaborate some more? I don't mind learning :D


Uhh. I hate that ugly kickdown lever or cable. Thats is, IF I go with the C6. However, I dont want to give up my automatic downshift. Dows the C4 use a kickdown lever/cable??? My plan all along was to get a new or rebuilt AOD, but they are expensive and seem to fry left and right. I dont feel like screwing with that pressure control cable.
In my Chev I had a slap-stick, a quick pull on that just before I hammer on the throttle became pretty much second nature to me in no time, to the point where I was doing the same with the Lincoln when in OD on the freeway (I have a floor shifter there as well). But I have to disagree with youn on the AOD being weak, I've given mine hell (for a passenger-car application at least) and it's been holding up just fine - gotta maintain those things tho, regular fluid changes and good coolers go a long way with them.



Yes, the C4 has the rod. Most transmissions have one, the exception i know of is the TH400 (prob the TH465 too, or whatever the hd version of the 400 is). Theres also the option of electronically controlled transmissions, those just need a TPS on the carb or throttle body for controller input. Thats a thousand dollar option to get rid of a $5 piece of metal thats on a ton of cars. Final option that comes to mind that does not involve electronics or kickdowns is a manual trans.
Thain, the TH475 is the one you think of, essentially a TH400 with straight-cut gears and some other internal goodies. Both of these have an electric solenoid to trigger the downshift, that's controlled by a switch on the throttle pedal, and is actually a pretty decent setup if you ain't an animal and obliterate the switch with your right foot. Like I said tho, I didn't miss the kickdown linkage in my Chev one bit, downshifting manually works just fine if you can focus on remembering to do it at first till you get used to it. So that would be another option - use a 3spd slushbox with a slap-stick.

[hav24wheel]

Well, that's something new to me, but then again I never played with those things much to begin with - care to elaborate some more? I don't mind learning :D

The kickdown on those 3 speeds is adjustable, it looks kinda like what the TV ROD does on my car. Only difference is there is only one adjustment piont, its the screw up by the carb, it you push the linkage on the carb to WOT than screw the adjustment screw all the way in so the kickdown rod hits its stop in the trans, that will be the max setting... when i had my C6 in my pickup, and the C4 in my van set that way, i would leave the trans in D, even if i was racing someone, It would reach about 5 grand in the pickup and shift into the next gear, in the van it would hit about 5200 rpm. when it was at its stock settin at WOT they would shift about 4200 RPM. They also downshift at a higher speed with is set at the max setting. Its been too long for me to remember the rpms and what not on that.. so if you have a kickdown on a C6 or C4 you can adjust the WOT(or close to WOT) up shift and down shift pattern with a easy turn of a screw driver.
I also know for a fact if you dont have a kickdown on, if you leave it in D, even a WOT it will shift up early about 3500 rpm or so, but you can manualy(sp) shift it almost when ever you want, if you are going too fast to drop it down a gear it (most of the time) won't drop down a gear.

[Archangel]

Ah, interesting - too bad tho they didn't set the trans at its highest WOT setting to begin with, and so then you can use the kickdown to just ajdust how early you want it to drop a gear. And yah, I noticed the no downshift thing in my C6 as well, the AOD actually is the same way when you're in 3rd and drop her down to 1st - if you're going too fast, she will drop to 2nd and stay there, that's pretty much the only way you get manual 2nd out of these things cause of the OD-D-1 shift pattern of the valve body.

[82LTDQS]

Does the C4 use a vacuum signal. Is the C4 Much bigger than the C4? I mean will it fit in place of an AOD?

[gadget73]

79 models came with a C4. Its slightly smaller than an AOD actually. Yes, it uses vacuum signal. Yes it fits in place of an AOD. Honestly don't know why anyone would voluntarily do this unless its a track only car. The gearing is basically the same for 1-3, and it doesn't have a lockup converter so it costs some economy and generates more heat. The only big plus to a C4 is that more people can make one work.

Ivan: ok, TH475. I knew it was something like that. I've never messed with one, I just know they exist. Didn't know they had a kickdown solenoid with an electric switch though. Only person I knew that had one had non-stock stuff on his car, and I don't remember any such wiring, but this was also 10+ years ago.

[1987cp]

C4 is lighter and smaller than an AOD. Very slightly shorter, too. Definitely enough so to be rather more pleasant to sling around either on your back under the car or on a hoist connected to the back of an engine.


Honestly don't know why anyone would voluntarily do this unless its a track only car.

:rolleyes: Yes, because Gadget's way is the only way!


The only big plus to a C4 is that more people can make one work.

How could that be? The C4 is actually somewhat more troublesome due to options for different bellhousings, different torque converter bolt patterns, lack of aftermarket governors .... and hooking up a vacuum modulator and kickdown rod is definitely a bit more annoying than a TV cable.

[Archangel]

79 models came with a C4. Its slightly smaller than an AOD actually. Yes, it uses vacuum signal. Yes it fits in place of an AOD. Honestly don't know why anyone would voluntarily do this unless its a track only car. The gearing is basically the same for 1-3, and it doesn't have a lockup converter so it costs some economy and generates more heat. The only big plus to a C4 is that more people can make one work.
Wait, we have lockup converters? Thought that's just an AODE thing, I never saw anything looking even remotely like a solenoid in my valve body when I had it apart a few years back - how would a lockup converter work for us then? I never felt my trans acting like it had one either, and I know what it feels like when it engages cause I use the darn thing as a gear splitter in my diesel... Am I missing something fundamental here?


Ivan: ok, TH475. I knew it was something like that. I've never messed with one, I just know they exist. Didn't know they had a kickdown solenoid with an electric switch though. Only person I knew that had one had non-stock stuff on his car, and I don't remember any such wiring, but this was also 10+ years ago.
Never seen one myself either, I just know they existed in RVs and such. The electric downshift is standard equipment for the TH400 tho, and since that's what the 475 is based on I'd imagine that's what they got too.


:rolleyes: Yes, because Gadget's way is the only way!
No, he's trying to tell ya that since gear ratios are the same and the C4 ain't stronger than an AOD in its stock form, it'd be a downgrade to install one in place of an AOD. Geez, why you make it such a big deal? You may be super happy with your C4, but just remember that the Chevy boys will always one-up you with them TH350s :p


How could that be? The C4 is actually somewhat more troublesome due to options for different bellhousings, different torque converter bolt patterns, lack of aftermarket governors .... and hooking up a vacuum modulator and kickdown rod is definitely a bit more annoying than a TV cable.
Cause tis a bolt in and go install if you got one that matches your engine - you just need a hose for the modulator, and you don't even need the darn kickdown, sure beats setting up gauges and messing with TV cables. In other words, any monkey can install a C4, while it takes an ape for the AOD :D

[82LTDQS]

What about the C6? Will it fit in place of the AOD? or is it too big.

[Archangel]

It's a big transmission man, pretty darn big, not sure if it will clear the floor pans - I mean the AOD already fits pretty tight under there, I'd imagine the C6 will require some hammering on the sheetmetal. I'd never put a C6 behind a 302 tho, they are huge power-robbing monsters, IIRC its engine hp draw is about double that of the AOD.

[82LTDQS]

GOOD to know. Thanks smoke.

[gadget73]

:rolleyes: Yes, because Gadget's way is the only way!


Far from it. I just try to offer people a complete and accurate picture of things. I do not like C4's. I won't tell someone they're an idiot for using one, however if someone is going to go that route, I feel they should know why they're doing it and have some reason for it. They also ought to know what they're in for so they don't get in the middle of things and have an "oh shit" moment. Also, theres no reason to get crappy with me just because you weren't happy that I used the kid card to make a possibly insensitive but rather valid point elsewhere.




How could that be? The C4 is actually somewhat more troublesome due to options for different bellhousings, different torque converter bolt patterns, lack of aftermarket governors .... and hooking up a vacuum modulator and kickdown rod is definitely a bit more annoying than a TV cable.

More people can rebuild them because they're simpler. Lots of bad AOD rebuilds out there, and they tend to cost more to overhaul. Its a big part of what gives them their bad reputation.


Wait, we have lockup converters? Thought that's just an AODE thing, I never saw anything looking even remotely like a solenoid in my valve body when I had it apart a few years back - how would a lockup converter work for us then? I never felt my trans acting like it had one either, and I know what it feels like when it engages cause I use the darn thing as a gear splitter in my diesel... Am I missing something fundamental here?

The AOD has a 2 shaft input, the outer shaft is connected to the torque converter, and works first and second gear. The inner shaft is directly attached to the converter shell, and is the input for 3 and 4. Theres a clutch system in there that actually switches which shaft the transmission input comes through, when it dies the trans doesn't shift past second gear. It doesn't lock up in the typical solenoid "extra shift" sort of way that just about everything else does, but when it shifts into third the transmission's internals are directly connected to the flexplate with no fluid coupling.





No, he's trying to tell ya that since gear ratios are the same and the C4 ain't stronger than an AOD in its stock form, it'd be a downgrade to install one in place of an AOD. Geez, why you make it such a big deal? You may be super happy with your C4, but just remember that the Chevy boys will always one-up you with them TH350s :p



Well, yea thats sort of my point about the gearing and strength. Its lighter and has a little less loss, but in a 2 ton tank, whats 10 hp and 50 lbs if it gives an overdrive gear for fuel economy? I'm not saying the AOD is THE solution for everything, but I think for a lot of situations, its probably a better solution than a C4. Each has it's place though. If one wants a 3 speed with more strength than a C4, look into the FMX. Its what the AOD is based on as far as planetary design. I'd have the same list of arguments for not using an FMX as a C4 though, primarily the lack of overdrive and lack of lockup. Also, nobody knows what an FMX is, so good luck finding performance parts or a rebuilder.


The C6 is a big trans. Stronger than the C4, but its primarily a truck and big block tranny. More power loss than the C4, same downsides, no overdrive, no lockup converter. I think it still weighs ever so slightly less than the AOD though, but its like 10 lbs or something minor.

[82LTDQS]

Good info gadget73. thank you

[82LTDQS]

Wow, thats cool about the AOD. Its not a lock up like all the others. The torque converter gets bypassed in 3rd and 4th.

[hav24wheel]

wow, i'm learning something new everyday about these AODs, i didn't know thats how the lockup converter worked on these things. I'm planning on putting a B&M shift kit (#40263)in it, but i don't know if that transgo hi-rev governor kit will work with it... Because i want a higher WOT shift and a firm shift... I'm foing a carb swap later and maybe a cam swap too. So, does any one know if that B&M shift kit will work with the transgo governor kit? Because the only transgo kit i can find for the AOD is the stick kits. not some thing i want.

[P72Ford]

Transgo makes an HP kit that you can order with the 'HI-Rev' kit. I think its like 100 or so.

[hav24wheel]

thanks i saw that, but I'm getting mixed info, on the summit site it said
Makes an automatic work like a manual.
TransGo originated shift kits, way back when. Their Stick Type kits are very specialized items that are only recommended for non-street applications, such as Pro Street, Pro Competition, and off-road. They cancel out all automatic functions in the transmission, putting you in charge of shifting. That means that you have to manually select each shift by moving the shift lever, much like with a manual transmission.

but on the transgo site it said "Firm muscle car shifts; Hold 1st, 2nd, 3rd to any rpm. Wide open 3-4 shift; Holds 4th at high speed. Includes Hi-Rev kit. (1980 to early 83 use late 83up VB)" so i might need a different VB, depending on when my car was made in 83.

So wold i have to shift manually or would it work normal with the lever in OD?

[Archangel]

That the kit you're looking at:

http://www.oregonperformancetransmission.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=OPTI&Product_Code=TRG-AOD-HP&Category_Code=AODSK

IIRC it retains your automatic shifts, it just allows you to stay in a lower gear if you so wish as long as you want if you manually put the shifter there...

[Archangel]

The AOD has a 2 shaft input, the outer shaft is connected to the torque converter, and works first and second gear. The inner shaft is directly attached to the converter shell, and is the input for 3 and 4. Theres a clutch system in there that actually switches which shaft the transmission input comes through, when it dies the trans doesn't shift past second gear. It doesn't lock up in the typical solenoid "extra shift" sort of way that just about everything else does, but when it shifts into third the transmission's internals are directly connected to the flexplate with no fluid coupling.
Thain, so it's not a real lockup converter, but more of a bypass converter... And actually the way Ford programs the PCM-controlled transmissions is very similar, they apply the lockup solenoid almost immediately after an upshift into 3rd so the "extra shift" is felt only sometimes, and then OD and lockup are simultaneous so no extra shift felt there. Not a bad setup really, not at all.

[1987cp]

Okay, now I have a question ... if the AOD uses its lockup function only by effectively bypassing the torque converter, why do aftermarket AOD converters specify whether or not the lockup function is retained? It would seem on the surface that was complicated to accomplish ...... unless, of course, they are simply constructed so that both input shafts are driven together, all the time, and then there's slippage no matter what .... that actually sort of makes sense, come to think of it ...... :p

[Archangel]

That's just it man, there's an aftermarket setup with a single input shaft that does away with the inner shaft and therefore removes the direct-drive feature of the original design - you end up with a stronger setup, but more slippage in 3rd and OD.

[1987cp]

So the non-lockup converter is intended only to be used with a modified transmission with a single input shaft and no lockup function? Or can it also be used with a stock transmission (though I don't know why you'd want to ...)?

[hav24wheel]

That the kit you're looking at:

http://www.oregonperformancetransmission.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=OPTI&Product_Code=TRG-AOD-HP&Category_Code=AODSK

IIRC it retains your automatic shifts, it just allows you to stay in a lower gear if you so wish as long as you want if you manually put the shifter there...

ya thats the kit..

[Archangel]

That kit should work fine for what you want, but just in case call up OPT or even TransGo and ask them if an AOD equipped with this kit will automatically shift gears if the shifter is put in OD, if their answer is yes (and it should be) then you're all good.

[hav24wheel]

Might just do that, I just picked out a cam too. 1400-5700 RPM lunati Voodoo http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D61002LK&autoview=sku

[gadget73]

Thain, so it's not a real lockup converter, but more of a bypass converter... And actually the way Ford programs the PCM-controlled transmissions is very similar, they apply the lockup solenoid almost immediately after an upshift into 3rd so the "extra shift" is felt only sometimes, and then OD and lockup are simultaneous so no extra shift felt there. Not a bad setup really, not at all.

Yeah, bypass I suppose is probably more accurate for how it works. It would be nice to have torque multiplication in third though, so the car wouldn't fall on its face when it upshifts out of second gear. Unfortunately its sort of a case of stock config, or no lockup at all in any gear.


Okay, now I have a question ... if the AOD uses its lockup function only by effectively bypassing the torque converter, why do aftermarket AOD converters specify whether or not the lockup function is retained? It would seem on the surface that was complicated to accomplish ...... unless, of course, they are simply constructed so that both input shafts are driven together, all the time, and then there's slippage no matter what .... that actually sort of makes sense, come to think of it ...... :p



That's just it man, there's an aftermarket setup with a single input shaft that does away with the inner shaft and therefore removes the direct-drive feature of the original design - you end up with a stronger setup, but more slippage in 3rd and OD.


Yep, thats how it works. I think there are both converters designed for a single input shaft on transmissions that are modified, and others that basically just drive both shafts off the torque converter's rotor so it can be used on a stock type transmission.

[1987cp]

Neato factoids! Thanks!


That kit should work fine for what you want, but just in case call up OPT or even TransGo and ask them if an AOD equipped with this kit will automatically shift gears if the shifter is put in OD, if their answer is yes (and it should be) then you're all good.

The TransGo AOD-HP kit definitely retains full-automatic shifting. Kicks down to First at comparatively high speeds, too (I want to say at least 35 or 40), and I really, really like the governor. Right now mine's shifting at about 5200, which is pretty decent for my cam. ( http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN-444211&autoview=sku ) AND I'm TOLD it shifts hard into Fourth at around 130mph WOT in this car .... basically it makes the AOD so much more useful and fun to drive than stock it isn't even funny!


(What the heck happened to CraneCams.com??? There've been rumors of Crane folding for some time, but then I thought they were being bought by someone who was going to retain most of their main product lines .....)