Need some advice.

[91grandmarquis]

Ok so I am not terribly knowledgeable about building an engine from aftermarket components. I figure somebody here has had some experience though.

I would like to know first and foremost. What block should I base this on? I want to go supercharged eventually. I have heard 302 supercharges interchange with the 351.. Is that true?

I want about 600 ponies at the crank. Im thinking either a 302 block stroked to a 347, or a 351 stroked to 408.

Next question.. The kits I am looking at have a stock re manufatured block and are from fordstrokers.com. I know a stock 302 is good for about 500hp (pushing it) and a 351 about 700hp. I want to be safe so should I invest in a nice street/race block from Dart or others.

I also want it to run on pump gas. what do you suggest for heads and pistons? Want to know if it will handle the supercharger well.

Also want to know your concerns about putting this in my 91. I know I will need new fuel pump, trans etc, but anything I am missing. My goal is to buy the block next summer and start from there so I just want to get things together in my head.

-Thanks all.

[jayh]

honestly, youre best bet is to get an assembled shortblock from fordstrokers
you will not save money building it yourself, the $400 you think you will save you will spend on block, machine work, and gaskets, and then some.
not to mention piece of mind that it is professionally assembled

depending on what your trying to do, a 600hp 408 is more than you need/can handle
more than likely a stock block will be fine

the tranny is an iffy situation, but alot of factors have to be considered. a well built aod is probably the way to go

you might be a little scared of n2o, but supercharging has alot less window for error and you have to fight heatsoak etc.; supercharger cars break all the time.
your fears are from hearsay, a small shot of n2o is safer than supercharging, but 600hp will take a while for you to make use of anyway, so just shoot for n/a

with a motor like this, forget about tight converters and tall gears

[91grandmarquis]

Well I know the best answer is to save and buy an assembled engine, but I want to do it myself. It is something that will keep me busy and I can say that I did that. I have people around me who have had there share of experience. I am just bad at choosing combination's of parts. In the end I would love a 10 second car. but this thing will be retired to weekend cruiser after college anyway. It's already going up for the winter. I just need a project to keep me sane. If you know what I mean. If supercharging is that much of an issue with reliability is there a way I can work around that and still come up with around a 500 horse engine.

And I know this is more motor than I would want/could handle, but If it wasn't I would just want more. Basically this is going to be a hobby and I am doing it for the experience/leisure. If it breaks because I fail horribly at least I will learn from my expensive mistakes.

[jayh]

its still quite a project to assemble the top end and make everything work

500hp- what are you talkin about?
you can build a 408 that makes 600hp on motor

[91grandmarquis]

Alright. I know it is going to be a lot of work, but I won't have the money all at once anyway. It will probably be an ongoing project over the course of 5-6 years from now.

So lets say I want a gnarly 408 then, what do you recommend for heads and pistons. I would like to run pump gas so I know flat top pistons would run into issues with doing this because of compression.
I have confidence in my mechanical ability to bolt stuff together, but not so much in troubleshooting etc. I want to stay with EFI as well.
Also I'm not sure about cam shaft options. I don't want it to sound like a 30 year old lawn mower at an idle with a super lumpy cam. If you know what I mean.

[jayh]

we'll have to wait and see what otherpeople say

after I read your responses and think about it, your best bet is to go in stepping stones. you already have gt40 heads and HO cam; get an explorer intake, 1.7 rockers, mark vii pcm, headers and exhaust, work with that for a while, address trans and rear end, then later, change your front dress to mustang stuff and put a blower on. this will let you learn how to handle power instages and eventually lead up to 500flyhp and idle and drive like a kitty kat. its probably the cheapest route also

[91grandmarquis]

Alright I understand where you are coming from, I already put my HO stuff up for sale, except the intake that I am going to throw on.

I completely understand that I will need to learn how to handle the power, and that is sound advice, but all those parts are money, and I would have to shell out to have them rebuilt ( I don't like putting used parts on my vehicle without being checked out). So it just seems to me like a waste if I'm not going to keep it. I guess I am just a little frustrated because I want to have a project to work on, but I don't have the money to do anything the right way at the moment.

[Lazerbeans]

The best advice I can give for a 5-6 year project? Research and learn what you need. Come to understand how you part selection will reinforce the air's natural tendency to flow in waves. (loosely speaking) Understand what that means, and you will be well on your way to building a bad ass engine. In the end the only advice you can count on is your own. People make mistakes, so advice needs to be verified at least from three sources, and you are better off answering your own questions. Or at least have a very good idea what direction to go in. And a 1000 horsepower on the street is just the beginning of getting serious. Anyone that tells you other wise needs to hike up their skirt and quit tripping on it.

[91grandmarquis]

The best advice I can give for a 5-6 year project? Research and learn what you need. Come to understand how you part selection will reinforce the air's natural tendency to flow in waves. (loosely speaking) Understand what that means, and you will be well on your way to building a bad ass engine. In the end the only advice you can count on is your own. People make mistakes, so advice needs to be verified at least from three sources, and you are better off answering your own questions. Or at least have a very good idea what direction to go in. And a 1000 horsepower on the street is just the beginning of getting serious. Anyone that tells you other wise needs to hike up their skirt and quit tripping on it.

Thanks man... it is good to hear... I've made some friends who know a lot... and been getting around the stuff more and more. I'l have plenty of time to do research before I actually get my hands dirty. It may not save money... and it may blow up, but at the end of the day I can say "I did that". 1000hp GM would be a tad bit ridiculous, just because I would not be able to drive while I laughed hysterically about the concept.

Thanks.

[Lazerbeans]

You learn more making mistakes than you do doing it right. If you are not making a mistake once in a while at least, then you not trying to learn anything. Show me a guy who never makes mistake, and I will show you a coward. There is people who very rarely make mistakes, they also watch what they do for the specific reason not to make a mistake or look bad, so they are only able to do certain things and they never learn anything new. You will make mistakes, fear of failure is the kiss of death to accomplishment. Do your research throughly, and your mistakes will be small. Hot roding is as much art as technique and the only to learn the art is go out there and get you hands dirty.
As far as the HP being unrealistic; SBF stroker 400+ci, forged internals, a very good set of heads, such as Trick Flow R's, and a centrifugal supercharger and a 1000HP is yours. Until you get into boost, it will drive like your grandfathers Vic. Stomp it and hang on once you get into boost. Just leave your skirt at home.
However if just don't feel the need for a 1000HP, thats cool. I just couldn't imagine why

[Southern_Pride]

Boost is addictive. Granny car then hold the fuck on. I love it.

[P72Ford]

I will tell you that boost is alot of fun.

With the NOVI 2000 on my Ram, it drove totally normal when you were on the vacuum side. Same fuel mileage, etc.

As soon as the boost came on... it was really fun. My truck has 3.55 gears, and on a 32" tire, thats pretty high gearing. On a 3rd gear pull from about 2500 rpm, it would get to hustling in a real hurry. WOT in first gear, I'd just blow the tire right off of it. 2nd gear there was marginal tire spin, and it pulled really hard.

It wasn't right for a daily driver, but it was fun as hell.

The thing about boost is, you can make silly power, and still maintain great driveability. As much as I like radical cams and choppy idles, there is really something to be said about un-natural aspiration.

[91grandmarquis]

Id like to run a mild cam an such too. But Im thinking boost may be the way to go eventually, however, this car will no longer be a DD at this point.

[1980c10]

I will tell you what I am using on my engine and you can take that for what it's worth. First off remeber a 408 is big block cubic inches you need parts that can flow enough for a big block.

Anyway

I plan on a 408 with around 9 to 1 compression built from a dart block, which is not needed if your only shooting for 600hp you can get away with the stock 351 block and be fine.
I am using trick flow twisted wedge 225R heads, most likley shaft mount rockers on them.
A custom grind cam from cammotion or turbo people.
Efi super victor intake with the medium elbow they sell and an accufab 90mm throttle body.

This should be good for at least 500 hp n/a.
Then just add the 91mm turbo and your well on your way to four digit horsepower numbers.

YOu also have to build the rest of the drive train to handle all that power.
Anyway don't be afraid to use big cc head and big throttle bodies and intakes, it's what the engine needs.

[79lincolnlover]

You also have to build the rest of the drive train to handle all that power.

Very important and overlooked by some.