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View Full Version : I Need help\advice with a water pump


Mike J.
10-27-2010, 07:14 PM
Ok... so here is the story. As a few may have seen from previous posts I recently purchased a 1976 Continental. The car had set since the original owner had passed away in 2005. The car was stored in a barn but was not ran.

So.. I purchased it and have been getting it road worthy. I changed all of the fluids, replaced exhaust manifold gaskets, rebuilt the carb, replaced the vacuum advance and a vacuum tank.

As I have been driving it (only about 50 or so miles so far) I had noticed that the temp was running on the hotter side. Highway cruising produced temps up to the H side of the gauge (yes.. there are no numbers).

So.. I replaced the thermostat first, with no change. I next had the coolant low to check the radiator flow. I was able to see the top of the rows flowing , but it didn't look like the bottom ones were. So I replaced the radiator. Still no change in the temp when driving. I did notice that the fan was slow to spin so I figured the Fan clutch may be bad. So.. if I was to replace the clutch I figured I might as well replace the water pump also.

To make the long story longer.. This is what I found. The back of the water pump.. the part that stays on the block has a hole in it. I have attached some pictures (my first attempt.. l hope it works). The hole is above one of the water circulation ports. I am not sure if this is the cause of my issue or if I can leave it ?

Please take a look and see what you think. The water pump was filled with Sludge... up to that rust line. It was like mud.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/mjordan44/HPIM4345.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/mjordan44/HPIM4342.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/mjordan44/HPIM4343.jpg


here is the car overview... just a quick picture.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/mjordan44/HPIM4347.jpg

with the wagon in the background
http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/mjordan44/HPIM4349.jpg

I forgot to add.. I had a block test done to see if there was any exhuast gas in the cooling system.. this was before I changed the radiator and the test came back as negative... I wanted to be sure there wasn't a bad head gasket or anything cracked.

Thank you for any advice.

Mike J.
gadget73
10-27-2010, 08:19 PM
You need a new timing cover. That looks like a 400? What concerns me most is how that hole got there. It looks almost like a hammer blow or something. The chunk of aluminum thats floating around somewhere is also a concern. If you do remove the timing cover, I'd spring for a new timing chain while in there. You may want to do some research on this, but I seem to recall that some factory timing sets had a built in cam retard, so its possible you can get a performance improvement by using a different set. I'm not 100% certain on the details of this, but I'm sure it must exist out there on the intarwebs.

If the pump had that much gunk in it, I'll pretty well promise you the entire rest of the cooling system is just a crapped up. The block needs a thorough flushing, the rad probably should be flushed again, and at a minimum the heater core needs to be flushed. I'd probably also spring for all new hoses since they're likely either lined with crap, ancient, or both.
Mike J.
10-27-2010, 10:06 PM
Hello Gadget,

You are correct.. I just didn't see it until you said it. It was one of those things.. it caught me off guard and I was just missing it. BTW...The engine is a 460 and I found this for sale on 460ford.com

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/mjordan44/Timingcover.jpg

Exactly what I was looking for. I will do a bit more searching and see what I can locate locally before I order.

Thank you for pointing me in the correct direction. What sucks is that I have it apart in my driveway instead of my polebarn ( which is not by my house) so... I need to finish it here before I put it away for the winter.

Once I get it done. I will actually post some pictures under readers rides.

Mike J.
351m
10-27-2010, 10:14 PM
Do the timing set, all post '72 460s had the retarded cam timing. pre '72 straight up timing set would be a good upgrade while you are in there. '70-'71 429 timing set is the one you want.
ford man
10-28-2010, 12:30 AM
Do the timing set, all post '72 460s had the retarded cam timing. pre '72 straight up timing set would be a good upgrade while you are in there. '70-'71 429 timing set is the one you want.

x2 + what gadget said. That earlier timing set will wake that 460 up. BTW when I did the timing cover on my 400 it was a Bitch to put back on because of the alignment dowels in the block. I ended up taking all the bolts out of the oil pan except the back 1/2 ones to lower it enough to finagle the timing cover on then snugged up the pan. Not sure if the 460 is the same way though. That hole in your old timing cover is weird too...
1987cp
10-28-2010, 07:54 AM
Is that hole actually hurting anything, though? Seems to me that as long as that cavity is thoroughly sealed when the new pump is installed, it should be okay other than accumulating a little oil between the pump and the timing cover.
gadget73
10-28-2010, 11:32 PM
if the 460 pumps are like 302 pumps, it will have a weep hole back there where oil can come out. It may not be major, but I generally dislike oil leaks. Mostly I'd just be worried about how it got there, and where the chunk of metal is. Thats not exactly a normal location on an engine for a hole to randomly appear.
Mike J.
10-29-2010, 12:28 AM
I thought about leaving it... but decided to replace the cover and timing set. I figure I have it apart.. i might as well do it all.

Just think..it all started with me replacing the radiator cap....

Mike J.
1987cp
10-29-2010, 05:53 AM
if the 460 pumps are like 302 pumps, it will have a weep hole back there where oil can come out. It may not be major, but I generally dislike oil leaks. Mostly I'd just be worried about how it got there, and where the chunk of metal is. Thats not exactly a normal location on an engine for a hole to randomly appear.

Meh, I've ended up with that weep hole RTV'd over before. :crazy: :bolt: Now I apply RTV primarily around the actual inlets and outlets.
1990LTD
10-29-2010, 03:24 PM
what's the deal with retarded cam timing?
gadget73
10-29-2010, 06:26 PM
something related to emissions crap. It robs a lot of power at the expense of being better for the birds or somesuch BS.
ford man
10-29-2010, 11:27 PM
Yeah- the cam retard is built into the sprockets of the timing chain so if you change to a early pre smog non retarded timing chain set you get alot more power.
1987cp
10-31-2010, 06:04 PM
something related to emissions crap. It robs a lot of power at the expense of being better for the birds or somesuch BS.

Yeah, make it grossly inefficient to make it more efficient. How's that supposed to work? :screwy:
91waggin
11-01-2010, 04:54 PM
what's the deal with retarded cam timing?

The cam timing is retarded....that's the deal:pilot: