351 Cleveland swap?

[flyb0t]

Okay, here's the story: My father and I are helping out a friend of his with wiring up his shed, and in return, we're getting a set of rims for my Mercury (the later cyclone kind), and maybe another, older motor. My dad's friend has a 351 Cleveland lying around that he probably wouldn't mind parting with, question is, would this be a worthy swap to do?

Bear in mind my car has CFI, what accommodations would have to be made in order to facilitate the swap in terms of fuel system?

Also, fitting in the car. But I wanna know feasibility of once it's in the car before I worry about getting it into the car.

Thoughts?

[ford man]

THAT would be cool. You would have to run a carbuerator for sure and just ditch all the CFI stuff. You would have to run a different ignition like duraspark or points, but thats no big deal. A C4 or AOD will bolt up. The motor mounts should be the same as a windsor. The oil pan, I'm not sure about. Pretty sure that would have to be swapped? Might be the same as a windsor but not sure.

If you got it in the car alright, making it run would be easy as long as you don't have to pass smog!
Are you absolutely sure its a cleveland? Because ALOT of people mistake a 351m or 400 for a cleveland... just want to make sure because the motor mounts are very different and the bell housing is different.

[rick99601]

http://www.mustangengines.com/351c%20Differences.htm

[gadget73]

Smallblock bellhouse and motor mounts, so physically it will bolt in. The trans won't handle a decent 351c, the engine accessories are completely different, and that CFI is never ever gonna cut it. Carb is by far the simplest and cheapest option for that. 73-74 motors have a crappy timing set as well, and should be changed out to the earlier set. The later timing gears have built in cam retard which will cost you some power.

[ford man]

Smallblock bellhouse and motor mounts, so physically it will bolt in. The trans won't handle a decent 351c, the engine accessories are completely different, and that CFI is never ever gonna cut it. Carb is by far the simplest and cheapest option for that. 73-74 motors have a crappy timing set as well, and should be changed out to the earlier set. The later timing gears have built in cam retard which will cost you some power.

I'm going to respectfully disagree on the timing set situation. I don't think the cam retard started until '75 when ford fitted catalytic converters. In '73 they went with different heads and a couple less horsepower on clevelands. Clevelands never got catalytic converters and I don't believe retarded timing sets but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time...

[1987cp]

Just my ... seems like any old engine is likely to need rebuilding and upgrading anyway, so may as well take that into account.

[Lincolnmania]

the cleveland will bolt right in, you will prob want to do a carb swap, efi would get real pricey but would be neat.......you will need cleveland accy brackets and pulleys too, might have to use the oldschool ps pump

i never had the timing cover off of my 73 cougars, but i know for sure that the 74 cleveland had the cam retarted, good friend of mine yrs ago had a 74 cougar, we changed the water pump and the timing cover, and the chain was sloppy as hell and had teeth missing and we noticed it was the retarted set......that thing was a runner for a 50 dollar winter beater, it had all sorts of power after the timing set swap, way more than my 73 cougar xr7 with a 4bbl carb and long tube headers

[P72Ford]

Just my ... seems like any old engine is likely to need rebuilding and upgrading anyway, so may as well take that into account.

Excellent point, Michael.

If this is a drop in swap, why then has it not yet been done?

The exhaust would be an issue, but surely you could find some manifolds to work until a better alternative was found.

[1987cp]

If this is a drop in swap, why then has it not yet been done?

**reads Nate's thoughts**

You're thinking this is probably because most people contemplating it seem to think that a Windsor engine won't make power without spending major moeny, and the engine being contemplated is cheap or free to acquire, and that swapping to a different engine family without doing anything to the new engine will magically make their car into a rip-roaring monster. Then they find out that most passenger-car versions of supposed engine "legends" weren't particularly interesting as configured from the factory, and further that the neat thing about an engine that's been out of production for over 30 years is that many specimens you find (especially for cheap) are already in far worse conditions than the no-po Windsor motor they're disappointed with and will usually take more money than a (frequently much newer and less-deteriorated) Windsor just to get it running nicely in the first place, let alone making it quick and then dealing with any swappage hassles like oilpans and custom headers. So they usually end up just doing a basic HO upgrade and calling it plenty entertaining enough for their nonexistent budget.


Other than that, there's absolutely no good reason not to do it!

[P72Ford]

Interesting.

Then you have these guys that have a perfectly running, recently rebuilt small block ford, even somewhat modified, and they're talking about swapping it out for a big inch Cadillac engine.

Except I know what it will take and what it will cost to do it right. And that is basically a blank check

Whereas its not set in stone, I like the idea alot, and I also have the resources to make it happen. I just have to decide if its right or not.

[1987cp]

Yes, very important to know what you're getting into and at least have plans for how to pay for it. A good job and no kids can be a great start.

[sly]

whatever gets built... go big! (on output)

I would love to have more than 500 HP in a panther just for giggles if I could afford to do so. Show those kids a thing or two. *waves cane* :p

[grandpaslincoln]

Bear in mind my car has CFI, what accommodations would have to be made in order to facilitate the swap in terms of fuel system?



Thoughts?

A lot of folks here (including me) reuse the stock fuel line, and pinch off/remove the fuel return line to the tank. The pump is inside the tank, so that will have to be removed or bypassed. I took mine out and made a pickup tube and then ran an external inline pump when I converted from CFI to carb. If I had to do it again I would have replaced the fuel line when I did the swap, just for one less thing to worry about.

[gadget73]

I'd like to do a Cleveland swap in something, but when I consider the money it would cost me to do it how I want to do it, it just doesn't make sense to me when I could get the same results out of a Windsor motor for a lot less money. The only way I'd consider it in the Towncar is if it were EFI and had AC. If I toss that out and go no AC and a carb, I'd need another car to start with, plus all the suspension and brake system work to make it right and able to stop, the list just goes on and on and on while my bank account simply does not. On the other hand I could stick a 351w in using easily available parts to make it EFI and AC compatible. It would cost more money than a 302 based engine, but its far from the money a 351c would run me.

[1987cp]

A lot of folks here (including me) reuse the stock fuel line, and pinch off/remove the fuel return line to the tank. The pump is inside the tank, so that will have to be removed or bypassed. I took mine out and made a pickup tube and then ran an external inline pump when I converted from CFI to carb. If I had to do it again I would have replaced the fuel line when I did the swap, just for one less thing to worry about.

+1 on not reusing stock fuel line, especially if it looks at all questionable. I've been meaning for over a year now to swap out the stock (and partly rotted and partly replaced with several feet of rubber!) 5/16" steel line on one of my cars for some 3/8" aluminum. Just can't seem to get around to it ....