Explorer swap with codes

[Neal 97 250]

I recently did a 2001 explorer swap. used the Lincoln logs. No smog. No Egr. '92 A9P Mark VII ECM. 19# injectors from a '95 4.6 TC. 77mm TB from the '95 4.6. I am using the LOPO TPS with on the newer TB. LOPO AIC on the newer TB.
All of the EGR vacuum relays are disconnected and onplugged with no wires or vacuum lines connected. (this probably explains 81, 82, 84)

I have a few codes I need some help deciphering.

21 - ECT out of self test range (O)(R)(C)

23 - TPS out of self test range (O)(R)(C)

24 - ACT or VAT input out of self test range (O)(R)

31 - EVP or PFE circuit below minimum voltage

81 - ?

82 - ?

84 - EGR vacuum regulator (EVR) circuit failure (O)(R)

Please give me some guidance on the first 4 codes. I would believe the last 3 are from the EGR delete. Any suggestions on how to clear these codes?

[91waggin]

21 may be because you pulled codes with the engine cold. Let it warm up and see if it goes away.

23 suggests that you should put an analog voltmeter on the TPS and make sure it's not being stupid.

24 means that the AIR charge temp sensor may be being stupid. If it's in the airbox as opposed to the intake, that may have something to do with it.

31 is the EGR Valve position sensor. EGR related

81 and 82 are turbo and supercharger related, so I have NO idea why you're getting them.

[88grandmarq]

Under what conditions are you getting these codes? there are 3 different test modes;
Key On Engine OFF, Key ON Engine Running and Continuous or Keep Alive

depending on which mode you were in when the test was done can determine what the code means.

on the first 4 codes, double check your wiring and make sure the sensors are hooked up correctly. also check the connection at the main harness plugs (white and black connectors) also known as salt and pepper shakers.

Code 81 and 82 are related to the air injection system, if the solenoids electrical connection are left disconnected, you will get those codes.

[Neal 97 250]

It was a cold engine. I am going to un hook battery then warm it up and retry.
It was done KOEO

I will check my wiring but the car runs like a top. The air temp sensor is just laying on the intake for right now. I will be wiring it into the airbox in the future.

By air injection you mean the air pump? If so that would explain some. I completely removed that system and the solenoids that were on the intake by the TB. I left them unplugged. I may try and hook some vacuum to those then plug them in to see if the codes go away.

Basically it sounds like I will be looking at the engine light for a while with this engine swap.

I am using a ECM from a Mark VII so I wonder if that has anything to do with 81 & 82?

Thanks for you guys' help with this. I will rerun on a warm engine tonight and post back up.

[pantera77]

By air injection you mean the air pump? If so that would explain some. I completely removed that system and the solenoids that were on the intake by the TB. I left them unplugged. I may try and hook some vacuum to those then plug them in to see if the codes go away.


81 - Air management 2 circuit failure (AM2/TAD).
82 - Air management 1 circuit failure (AM1/TAB) .


Yep, that would do it.

[88grandmarq]

It was a cold engine. I am going to un hook battery then warm it up and retry.
It was done KOEO

I will check my wiring but the car runs like a top. The air temp sensor is just laying on the intake for right now. I will be wiring it into the airbox in the future.

By air injection you mean the air pump? If so that would explain some. I completely removed that system and the solenoids that were on the intake by the TB. I left them unplugged. I may try and hook some vacuum to those then plug them in to see if the codes go away.

Basically it sounds like I will be looking at the engine light for a while with this engine swap.

I am using a ECM from a Mark VII so I wonder if that has anything to do with 81 & 82?

Thanks for you guys' help with this. I will rerun on a warm engine tonight and post back up.

yes... engine needs to up to operating temp before you can pull codes accurately.

yes.. by air injection I mean air pump, smog pump. If you connect the electrical part of the solenoids, codes 81/82 will go away. you do NOT need to connect the vacuum hoses to the solenoids.

Also, did you do a MAF conversion? A9P ECM is a MAF computer from an automatic Mustang. Mark 7 ECM would be a D9S or YC3, both are SD computers.

[86VickyLX]

TPS isn't set right. Set it so it reads .7-.9 volts at closed throttle. I didn't think you could use the Lopo tps on a later explorer throttle body...
This stuff was aquired from KOEO? Is the air temp sensor plugged in?
ECT code is probably cause it wasn't warm. Though, it shouldn't give you a code when the engine isn't running.
It doesn't see the thermactor solenoids.
is the EGR position sensor plugged in?

[gadget73]

If you plug in the thermactor solenoids, you'll have I believe a 44 and 94, which will indicate the air injection doesn't work because its not there. 6 of one, half dozen of another. I know those two do not make the check engine light come on, not sure about 81 and 82. I'd use whichever setup made the light go off. No need to run vacuum to the solenoids, the ECM only checks to see if there is resistance there. You can actually substitute a resistor of the proper value to trick the ECM into believing stuff is plugged in if you really want to stealth it.

[Neal 97 250]

yes... engine needs to up to operating temp before you can pull codes accurately.

yes.. by air injection I mean air pump, smog pump. If you connect the electrical part of the solenoids, codes 81/82 will go away. you do NOT need to connect the vacuum hoses to the solenoids.

Also, did you do a MAF conversion? A9P ECM is a MAF computer from an automatic Mustang. Mark 7 ECM would be a D9S or YC3, both are SD computers.

My apologies. I am running a D9S computer right now.
I bought an A9p for when I do the MAF conversion. It is on the shelf right now.

I will connect the solenoids and recheck the codes on a warm engine.

And yes I did use the LOPO TPS on the throttle body. The TB is from a '95 TC (77mm) The bolt holes had to be widened out on the sensor since the bolts are further apart. I also had to shave off a tad bit of the blade sticking up to get the sensor on there.

Which wire do you check for 0.7 - 0.9 volts on the TPS? Do you do it with the ignition on or off?

Thanks guys for the help.

Neal

[Neal 97 250]

How about some engine pics for some eye candy?

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr166/Neal97250/Lincoln%20Stuff/DSCF1092.jpg
http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr166/Neal97250/Lincoln%20Stuff/DSCF1093.jpg
http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr166/Neal97250/Lincoln%20Stuff/DSCF1094.jpg
http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr166/Neal97250/Lincoln%20Stuff/DSCF1095.jpg
http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr166/Neal97250/Lincoln%20Stuff/DSCF1097.jpg
http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr166/Neal97250/Lincoln%20Stuff/DSCF1098.jpg

[gadget73]

key on, meter from the black wire to the green wire. I use paperclips to poke into the back side of the connector.


Engine bay looks good, nice and clean. Hows it run other than the codes ?

[cld783]

31 is because your missing the egr solenoid and valve..

I'd also suggest drilling/tapping the #5 intake runner for a act boss. 9/16 drill bit and a 3/8 NTP (National Pipe Thread) tap.

nice build though, very clean.

[Neal 97 250]

Thanks for that information.

It runs great. Plenty of power and still running on stock single exhaust. Gonna work on opening that up soon.

Thanks for the compliments. I thought you guys would like the pics.

What do you think about the egr delete plate? I had a machine shop make that for me. Just a big block with a nice big hole in the middle. I had to do something there because that is where the linkage bracket bolts to.

[88grandmarq]

a couple of things to point out... all 4.6L engines got a 65mm throttle body from the factory, if you have a 77mm, its an aftermarket unit.

Deleting the EGR will cause problems with the stock programing on the ECM, You will need to have a custom tune done anyway when you go to MAF, Make sure the person doing your tune turns the EGR functions OFF in the programming.

[Neal 97 250]

I measured the throttle body with a ruler. Kinda crude but it worked. It could be 65 but I am pretty sure it is bigger than that. Then again I may not have measured it correctly. Anyway it is way bigger for sure. It was on a '95 Limo so not very much is stock.

I haven't noticed any problems as of yet with the programming but I will keep an eye on that. Right now I am using a Mark VII computer.
When I go to MAF I will be using a Mustang computer.
I have a contact locally of someone that does custom programming on these Ford computers. I will look him up if I have problems when I go MAF.

Thanks for the tips.

[86VickyLX]

Thanks for that information.

It runs great. Plenty of power and still running on stock single exhaust. Gonna work on opening that up soon.

Thanks for the compliments. I thought you guys would like the pics.

What do you think about the egr delete plate? I had a machine shop make that for me. Just a big block with a nice big hole in the middle. I had to do something there because that is where the linkage bracket bolts to.
Does it pop? Backfire hesitate? Until it's been running?

[gadget73]

Throttle body size is determined by the blade diameter. The bore of the TB where the air pipe goes is usually bigger.

How's it perform compared to your 95? Are the cars similar in weight?

[86VickyLX]

Throttle body size is determined by the blade diameter. The bore of the TB where the air pipe goes is usually bigger.

How's it perform compared to your 95? Are the cars similar in weight?
95 was a limo. I'm gonna say no.

[gadget73]

I believe his 90 is also a limo, unless I'm mistaken.

[Neal 97 250]

Does it pop? Backfire hesitate? Until it's been running? It does do like you said it would. When I first start it, it jumps the idle up and back down and dies. The second time I fire it up it runs for a couple seconds then dies. Then the third time I start it, it runs like a brand new car. Like a champ.

I haven't really ran it real hard yet though. I just want to get some good miles on it first. I do know this. It will roast the tires in a split second if need be.


Throttle body size is determined by the blade diameter. The bore of the TB where the air pipe goes is usually bigger.

How's it perform compared to your 95? Are the cars similar in weight?
It runs way better but the '90 is a regular sig series. The '95 was a Limo nad has been dead for several years.

Thanks for the TB explanation. I did measure it wrong. Now I am curious. I will have to remeasure it for sure. But it is definately way bigger than the old one.

What do you think? LOL

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr166/Neal97250/Lincoln%20Stuff/DSCF0842.jpg

[gadget73]

stock lopo throttle body should be 50mm, Explorer is 65mm, so better than 1/2" larger diameter.

[86VickyLX]

It does do like you said it would. When I first start it, it jumps the idle up and back down and dies. The second time I fire it up it runs for a couple seconds then dies. Then the third time I start it, it runs like a brand new car. Like a champ.

I haven't really ran it real hard yet though. I just want to get some good miles on it first. I do know this. It will roast the tires in a split second if need be.

Stalling could be caused by a dirty IAC, incorrect idle speed, incorrect TPS setting causing the IAC not to operate.

The other problem I experienced was hesitation, unless I let the thing idle. Basically, until the car warmed up enough to go into closed loop. If I drove it without allowing that, it would pop/backfire/hesitate, when I were to give it some gas. WOT it hauled like a mother fucker. The same would happen if I restarted the car, and didn't let the computer switch back to closed loop. (I'm assuming that's what it is as after it's warmed up, it takes about 30 seconds for the car to go through it's stumbling bullshit, which is about how long it takes for an EEC-IV car to go back into closed loop operation).

[Neal 97 250]

stock lopo throttle body should be 50mm, Explorer is 65mm, so better than 1/2" larger diameter.
I will check it. The TB I am using came from the 1995 TC Limo. Not the explorer.


Stalling could be caused by a dirty IAC, incorrect idle speed, incorrect TPS setting causing the IAC not to operate.

The other problem I experienced was hesitation, unless I let the thing idle. Basically, until the car warmed up enough to go into closed loop. If I drove it without allowing that, it would pop/backfire/hesitate, when I were to give it some gas. WOT it hauled like a mother fucker. The same would happen if I restarted the car, and didn't let the computer switch back to closed loop. (I'm assuming that's what it is as after it's warmed up, it takes about 30 seconds for the car to go through it's stumbling bullshit, which is about how long it takes for an EEC-IV car to go back into closed loop operation).

Thanks for your input. It helps alot to talk to someone who has done the same thing and to help diagnose the issues. Like I said I start it a few times then it runs like a champ. Just gotta let it figure things out. I haven't been able to drive it at all in almost two weeks because of all the snow we have. I have 12.5 inches or more on my porch right now. This is VERY non-typical of east Tennessee. I am driving my truck daily right now.
once I get it back on the road I will definately call on your experiences.

[86VickyLX]

I will check it. The TB I am using came from the 1995 TC Limo. Not the explorer.



Thanks for your input. It helps alot to talk to someone who has done the same thing and to help diagnose the issues. Like I said I start it a few times then it runs like a champ. Just gotta let it figure things out. I haven't been able to drive it at all in almost two weeks because of all the snow we have. I have 12.5 inches or more on my porch right now. This is VERY non-typical of east Tennessee. I am driving my truck daily right now.
once I get it back on the road I will definately call on your experiences.
I have heard rumors of people doing this swap, and having none of the problems, I or, Tom (GMGT) experienced. So if you turn out to not have problems, I want to know all of what you did.

[pantera77]

I have heard rumors of people doing this swap, and having none of the problems, I or, Tom (GMGT) experienced. So if you turn out to not have problems, I want to know all of what you did.

This is what I don't understand. The 89 has a full explorer swap, is still MAP, and runs like an absolute champ. No problems at all.

The wagon on the other hand, has e7's, an aftermarket cam (supposedly SD friendly), explorer intakes, and does the BS hesitating, popping through the intake, ect.... It's going mass air come spring.

[86VickyLX]

This is what I don't understand. The 89 has a full explorer swap, is still MAP, and runs like an absolute champ. No problems at all.

The wagon on the other hand, has e7's, an aftermarket cam (supposedly SD friendly), explorer intakes, and does the BS hesitating, popping through the intake, ect.... It's going mass air come spring.
Explorer cam? What computer?

[pantera77]

Explorer cam? What computer?

HO cam advanced 4* with 1.7 RR's with a D9S (I believe).

The wagon at first had a 5sp stang computer in it, which made even more problems, usually 2 try's to start, random misfires, random idle issues. I put a D9S in it, and it solved all of them, except for the usual popping/hesitation issues.

[86VickyLX]

HO cam advanced 4* with 1.7 RR's with a D9S (I believe).

The wagon at first had a 5sp stang computer in it, which made even more problems, usually 2 try's to start, random misfires, random idle issues. I put a D9S in it, and it solved all of them, except for the usual popping/hesitation issues.
usual popping hesitation? What's in the wagon?

The popping/hesitation is the problems that have been experienced with the explorer cam. That vic was 88grandmarq's right? And that has the HO cam.
I think all the problems with these things is solely due to the explorer cam.

[pantera77]

usual popping hesitation? What's in the wagon?

The popping/hesitation is the problems that have been experienced with the explorer cam. That vic was 88grandmarq's right? And that has the HO cam.
I think all the problems with these things is solely due to the explorer cam.

Yes, the vic is fine, and is the one with the HO cam. It's essentially an explorer motor (GT40p's, Explorer intakes) besides for the HO cam.

The wagon is the one with the problems. I know the cam is the problem, but it has all the same symptoms that you guys have.

[86VickyLX]

Yes, the vic is fine, and is the one with the HO cam. It's essentially an explorer motor (GT40p's, Explorer intakes) besides for the HO cam.

The wagon is the one with the problems. I know the cam is the problem, but it has all the same symptoms that you guys have.
i'm trying to figure out what the problem is with the Cam.

Btw, what kind of cam is in the wagon?

[pantera77]

i'm trying to figure out what the problem is with the Cam.

Btw, what kind of cam is in the wagon?

It's a Powermax 2020 (Formerly Compucam 2020) According to the spec sheet.

[86VickyLX]

It's a Powermax 2020 (Formerly Compucam 2020) According to the spec sheet.
Ah. Now, if you let it idle, will the backfiring go away? Like you start it up, it's idling, then as it warms up, it idles really funky, then out of nowhere the idle goes back up steady? If it does that, it's the same problem experienced with my engine, and P79's engine, when it was fuel injected...

[pantera77]

Ah. Now, if you let it idle, will the backfiring go away? Like you start it up, it's idling, then as it warms up, it idles really funky, then out of nowhere the idle goes back up steady? If it does that, it's the same problem experienced with my engine, and P79's engine, when it was fuel injected...

I honestly don't know, but that may explain why some times it would drive fine, and then other times every time I had to accelerate from a stop it would get so bad it would nearly stall.

[86VickyLX]

I honestly don't know, but that may explain why some times it would drive fine, and then other times every time I had to accelerate from a stop it would get so bad it would nearly stall.
Do me a favor. I know it's cold out so it will take longer, but go out and start it. You have a temp gauge in it?
When it starts to warm up it'll get all weird with the idle, then it would come back up. Then it should drive better...

[cld783]

This is what I don't understand. The 89 has a full explorer swap, is still MAP, and runs like an absolute champ. No problems at all.

The wagon on the other hand, has e7's, an aftermarket cam (supposedly SD friendly), explorer intakes, and does the BS hesitating, popping through the intake, ect.... It's going mass air come spring.

is the 89's cam straight up and the wagons advanced 4 degrees?

[pantera77]

is the 89's cam straight up and the wagons advanced 4 degrees?

No. Opposite.

[pantera77]

Do me a favor. I know it's cold out so it will take longer, but go out and start it. You have a temp gauge in it?
When it starts to warm up it'll get all weird with the idle, then it would come back up. Then it should drive better...

Next time I go out and start it, I will. can't hurt to try. It is kinda weird how some days it would run great, and others I'd be afraid to come to a red light.