Question about alignments...

[r2t]

2001 GM 69,100k (Bought in 2010 with 38k from elderly lady)

Long story short, wife hit a bad pothole. Car now pulls to the right pretty good.

Went to get alignment, was advised car needs lower ball joints. I declined. Shop said they will adjust the toe and be done.

Just drove it and the car still has pull to right but not quite as bad but still plenty bothersome, steering wheel is still off center (even when going slow and on level road).

Is it fair to think this car with pretty low miles would NEED to have LBJ replaced in order to get a 'true' alignment? Or is it possible they shirked me on the 'service' they actually rendered? I don't wanna ruin the new tires on the car.

Does my year GM have wear–indicating ball joints?

[gadget73]

100k is probably not unreasonable for lower ball joints. I've heard of them seperating at speed around 120k.

and no, you cant get a proper alignment if the ball joints are done. The parts just won't sit where they belong and the alignment will basically change randomly as you drive. You can set the toe more or less, but caster and camber cannot accurately be set with bad parts.

[r2t]

Well this car is 30k under 100,000 miles and it's been pampered for almost all of those 69k. Like I said the car drove fine with perfect alignment until the pothole incident so it's hard to believe the car now needs both lower ball joints just to be aligned correctly. It was just state inspected 3 months ago without issue.

Also, how much of a PITA is it to change out the ball joints and bushings without a press? Impossible or hard as hell? Any tricks?

[jaywish]

Look up the procedure for inspecting ball joints on the net. Most any car with a suspension like ours will do to give you the idea. When it was in the shop they could have demonstrated the play for you. I don't have any pics or I would share them.

Basically you use a pry bar and look for any movement. There is a certain amount that is OK but that is minimal. Even if the joints are bad you may have bent something else but if you don't see anything bent it probably will require a machine to try it our after the joints are replaced. Assuming you need them done. At least you have the steel arms to play around with. I haven't had to remove a joint from the aluminum arms yet.

Jay

[r2t]

I've been reading several tutorials on LBJ replacement, seems like LCA replacement is the way to go. I will check with Ford tomorrow on a discounted price for the set. I am still bugged to think about the LCJ's being 'bad' at 69k though. :\

[jaywish]

Check or have them checked if you do not believe the first fellow who looked at it.

[1987cp]

The balljoints are still just press-in like the old ones, right? If so, replacing is easy - just do it. Balljoint press rental is free at AutoZone. Worst part is finding some time to work and the cost of the parts.

[r2t]

The balljoints are still just press-in like the old ones, right? If so, replacing is easy - just do it. Balljoint press rental is free at AutoZone. Worst part is finding some time to work and the cost of the parts.

Yeah press-in, Good idea to do the bushings at the same time, right?

Here is the walk-through... http://www.autoclinix.com/Mercury/LBallJoints.html

[jaywish]

If you do decide to remove the whole arm.... Your GM is Fairly new, but beware the lower control arm bolts can be a real bi.ch if they are rusted in there. Spray, POUND, repeat. You may need heat but do not set the car on fire.

I have not done the lower ball joints on a ford that new but... Won't a standard (e.g. OTC type) ball joint tool just drive them out and in while the arm is still in the vehicle?

Jay

[gadget73]

you can do just the ball joints with the regular press, but Ford's reccomended process is the whole arm so you get new bushings too. Its not bad reasoning honestly, generally when the LBJ is toast, the LCA bushings aren't too hot either. I'd still verify they are in fact bad though. Not sure where I got 100k from, but at 70k I wouldn't really expect problems. But then again who knows.

[r2t]

Cool. Thx guys. Before I go buying parts I am gonna take it to another shop and ask for a quick inspection in of the LBJ's as well as how their current condition would affect an alignment. I'll post results later.

[1987cp]

Yeah press-in, Good idea to do the bushings at the same time, right?

Here is the walk-through... http://www.autoclinix.com/Mercury/LBallJoints.html

I'd be surprised if it's necessary on a 10 year old car, but who knows. I had a service manager tell me we needed new LCA bushings on our '03 Cavalier back in '07 or so when it was in for a bit or recall work. I told him I'd have a look when I got the car home - and as of I think last summer, I still hadn't been able to identify any cracked bushings.

If you choose to do bushings, consider polyurethene bushings from Energy Suspension instead of getting stock rubber replacements. The set was normally $30 cheaper from what I've seen, plus the ES are really easy to install. You even re-use the outer bushing shell instead of having to press it in and out.

Still, your choice on how to proceed. How much are entire replacement arms, anyway?

[r2t]

I'd be surprised if it's necessary on a 10 year old car, but who knows. I had a service manager tell me we needed new LCA bushings on our '03 Cavalier back in '07 or so when it was in for a bit or recall work. I told him I'd have a look when I got the car home - and as of I think last summer, I still hadn't been able to identify any cracked bushings.

If you choose to do bushings, consider polyurethene bushings from Energy Suspension instead of getting stock rubber replacements. The set was normally $30 cheaper from what I've seen, plus the ES are really easy to install. You even re-use the outer bushing shell instead of having to press it in and out.

Still, your choice on how to proceed. How much are entire replacement arms, anyway?

See that's what I AM SAYING. 69,000 miles and both LBJ's are shot to the point a new alignment is rendered completely uneffective? Ummm...hell no. This is an old granny's car where the lady was always on a Sunday cruise, not a PI that's been driven over miles of speed bumps at 100mph.

Both replacement arms (Dorman's from RockAuto) are $75 each with about $35 S&H so about $200 with tax. I am gonna work up a price for the joints and bushings from Advance with their awesome discount codes later today and see what's 'worth it'.

Anyways I dropped the car back off at the same shop today and basically said the car is still pulling hard right and there's no way the LBJ's are gonna have that much impact on the alignment when pre-pothole incident just one week ago the car drove as straight as an arrow. They are gonna look at it again. If they come back with the same shit, I am taking it to a shop down the street and get a 2nd opinion before I start the r&r process myself.

Bottom line is times are tough and I work 2 jobs to support my wife and kid & I hate to waste $$$ so if the shop thinks the alignment would be of little to no value, THEN SAY SO. I'll make the damn repairs THEN bring it to you for an alignment so you will get your damn $$$ regardless. Uuugh.

[Piece-it pete]

I had to replace the LBJs on my 97 MGM at 60-65K, and the old mechanic told me it was common on full size Fords at the time.

If money is tight I'd just do the ball joints and call it a day for now, imo, ymmv. Although I guess 01 is older than it used to be.

Pete

[r2t]

Well I just got it back. It seems a bit better but still pulls right. I haven't got it on a 3 lane highway yet to really be able to tell. And this is after rotating the tires front to back. Is it common to rotate tires left to right? I always thought you werent supposed to do that because of the natural wear of the tire/cords is now reversed. But then again I think I saw a 5 wheel rotation pattern that did that very thing.

In any case, if I do need to replace them I'll do the LBJ's & Polyurethane bushings as 1987cp suggested (which I found for $58 shipped)