power steering pump -- '91 GM

[monterey1962]

My moms' '91 GM may need a new ps pump. I haven't had a chance to take a good look at it, yet. Since I work nights I rarely see the '91 anymore.

What's involved with changing out the pump? Should it take too long to replace? CarQuest said ~$60 for pump and reservoir with exchange.

[DuceAnAHalf]

you will need the pulley puller, other than that it is 3 bolts, 1 fitting and one hose clamp. afterwards you will have to bleed the system.

[phayzer5]

a little birdie told me that a regular 2-3 jaw puller wont work and will probably bend the pulley

[Lincolnmania]

gotta use a power steering pulley puller or you will destroy the pulley................you can rent one from autozone or advance.......also helps to have a set of line wrenches for the power steering hose

is it leaking or is it making noise?
before you replace it, try flushing it and fill it up with fresh fluid and lucas power steering treatment........that stuff works wonders......slows down leaks too

[monterey1962]

I think it's getting loud. I'll talk to her tomorrow and maybe check it out tomorrow night.

What's it take to flush the pump? How many quarts does it hold on a refill? Is there a filter on these pumps? I'll try my options before replacing it.

[phayzer5]

since you're gonna do the lines now would be a godo time to install a ps cooler

[gadget73]

http://www.cartrackers.com/Forums/live/fordwindstar/1270.html

Thats for a Windstar, but same idea. Just skip the part about the pump relay as you won't have one. I'm with Scott about trying some Lucas. It might just shut the pump up. Make sure the fluid level is full too, low PS fluid will make the pump moan like a French whore. The steering boxes commonly leak around the shaft that sticks out of the bottom where the pitman arm is so it wouldn't be surprising if its a little low or the fluid has some air bubbles in it.

[Grand Marquis GT]

If you came to my store to buy a pump, I would uninstall/install the pulley for you and give you a 20% discount :D

[88grandmarq]

Usually what happens is the pump or one of hoses starts leaking, the fluid gets low, then the fluid cavitates and the bearings starts to make noise from lack of lubrication. if it happens for very long the bearing will be damaged. This is why you hear a lot Ford cars/trucks make PS pump noise because the fluid is low or some one didnt proplerly bleed the system after adding fluid or working the PS system.

With that being said, go look at the car..... look for obvious PS system leaks. it maybe as simple as changing a hose. I find most times, the return line has gotten hard and wont seal anymore. Usually some new clamps and short piece of ATF rated rubber hose is a suitable replaement.
once the leaks are fixed, try flushing the system as Scott mentioned. use a long section of hose and a drain pan. cycle the engine on and off for very short periods (15 seconds) similar to the instructions in Thain's link.
If the PS system is seeping from the pump or the gear box, some lucas or similar stop leak is a good idea to slow/stop the leak.

a couple of pointers... use only ATF in a Ford PS system. Type F is the best, but dextron will work. DO NOT use regular, clear type PS fuild.
when you bleed the system, raise the front end and turn the steering wheel back and forth with the engine OFF. running the engine will damage the PS Pump if there is still a lot of air in the system.

If you determine it needs a new pump, you will have to remove the air box and alternator to get to the pump. I find its easier to remove the alternator bracket, but thats not a requirement.
Once the alternator off, you will have access to the pump bracket. you will also need some line wrenches as Scott mentioned to get the lines out of the PS box, you dont have to remove the return line, but I find it makes it easier to work on with both lines removed.
There 4 bolts that hold the PS bracket in place. 2 off the water pump and 2 long bolts that go into the head. Take those out and entire pump and bracket comes out.
when you go to buy the new pump, the parts store should be able to pull the pulley for you and swap the bracket to the new pump.
Then go home, install the pump, fill with fresh fluid and bleed the system.

[grandpaslincoln]

What happens if you use regular PS fluid?

[gadget73]

What happens if you use regular PS fluid?

Your balls will turn purple and you'll go blind.

Really, I have no idea, but the book and the service manual calls for ATF. I don't think PS fluid lubricates as well or something.

[monterey1962]

Talked to my mom tonight. She said it's just wining more than usual. I should get to check it out later in the week.

ATF? You mean Automatic Trans Fluid? In the PS pump? I didn't know that. What I've been using in the '88 is Motorvator PS Maintenance Fluid from K-mart. Seems to do alright.

[grandpaslincoln]

PS fluid is all I have ever used, no problems so far

[phayzer5]

My yota has a sticker on the ps resivoir that calls for Dextron II :drug:

[gadget73]

Factory service manual says Type F automatic transmission fluid. I think the dipstick says something about this or Dexron II. Not sure. I've actually never used power steering fluid in anything before.

[Fairmont Kevin]

a couple of pointers... use only ATF in a Ford PS system. Type F is the best, but dextron will work. DO NOT use regular, clear type PS fuild.


Well sh!t. I've been very careful to use PS fluid. I've used a hell of a lot of it too, 'cuz I've replaced the pitman shaft seal 3x and it still leaks. Maybe with the right fluid it won't.

Cars are a PITA.

[Lincolnmania]

i've always used ps fluid.......never a problem.......should i change?

[Archangel]

I just flushed my PS yesterday, and I also upgraded it with the police tranny cooler I had laying around - it's finally hooked up, downstream of the gearbox. Filled up with Mobil 1 full synthetic ATF, went with the Dextron type as I already use it in my tranny and I don't like having 5 quarts of different chemicals jumping around in my trunk. There was no moaning before, there si none now either, but I did notice that the steering hose between the gearbox and the cooler doesn't get as hot as the original return line - is that something that can be attributed to the ATF?

[monterey1962]

:bump:

This is regarding the PS leak on the '88. Been getting pretty bad lately. There's such a big friggin' mess down there that I can't tell where it's comin' from.

The pump has been wining pretty bad and the fluid is where it should be. I'm tempted to just pull the pump, lines, and gearbox to either: clean them up and try to find the leak or just replace the whole works. CarQuest has the pump w/ reservoir for $49 and the gearbox for $150. I'm getting tired of seeing that big damn mess under the hood and on my garage floor.

How does the gear box detach from the steering shaft? Any tips on removal? I haven't gotten down there to look at it today, short on time.

If the seal on the gear box is leaking, can the seal be replaced or would it be cheaper/easier to just replace the whole thing? All info is appreciated.

[Paul_]

http://us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/rodi_1883_46840424

This stuff comes highly reccomended from Scott. It worked on my 90, as I had a small power steering leak and it was whining like crazy.

[gadget73]

Before you do anything, liberally apply degreaser and pressure wash the engine bay to get rid of the goop, then have a look underneath to determine where its coming from after driving home in your nicely cleaned car.

I've heard that its hard to replace that seal and get it to actually seal. Not sure on yours, but I'm fairly sure you just have a single clamp bolt below the rag joint that comes out, then the steering box slides off the shaft. 3 bolts hold it to the frame. The hardest part is getting the pressure line to break loose really. If the clamp bolt on the box doesn't let go, half the steering shaft will slide apart, so its not that big of a deal. It should seperate between the rag joint and that other joint up next to the firewall.

[mrltd]

The seals are a pita to replace. I did the input seal on mine with the box in the car. Now the output seal is leaking. I'd upgrade the box to a newer if that's what's leaking...

[monterey1962]

I yanked out the ps pump tonight. What a fuckin' mess down there. From what I can tell, the leak is from the pump or one of the rubber lines. The gear box didn't appear to have anything for fresh oil on it to indicate leaking. I'm ordering my new pump Monday. It was a bit of a bitch to get the bracket out. Since everything was out, I went ahead and rethreaded my oil-sending unit. It wasn't as tight as it was supposed to be.

The rubber line that comes out of the back of the ps pump wraps down and underneath the pump and connects to the metal line. I can't seem to seperate the rubber hose from the metal line. I even pulled the clamp off. Do I have to replace the metal portion of the line as well as the rubber peice, or should that rubber line come off?

[88grandmarq]

yes, the metal pipe and rubber hose seperate. use a razor blade and cut the hose off the metal line. use transmission fluid rated 3/8" rubber hose as a replacement. re-use the metal line. some new clamps are a good idea too.

[monterey1962]

Thanks for the info.

[gadget73]

If its the low pressure line, the one with a hose clamp, just slice and dice it. The other line will not seperate at the crimp. At least it shouldnt.

[88grandmarq]

just replace both lines, since you have the pump already off.

the High pressure line is like $20 at Napa.

[gadget73]

Yeah, good point. Might as well replace it while its apart.

[monterey1962]

Got the new pump today. Didn't have a pulley puller, so I ran down to my mechanic. He was nice enough to pull and install the pulley for no charge (I do a lot of business with them). Also picked up a new low pressure hose, ps fluid, Lucas ps fluid treatment, and clamps. I'm taking tomorrow off to install everything. Seems to be the only nice weather day for a while and I need a break from work.

[monterey1962]

New pump is in and running quiet. I still think the gearbox may have a leak, but it doesn't seem to be bad. I've got an antifreeze leak and an oil leak, but I can't pin point 'em. I suppose leaks should be expected at 170K miles.

[gadget73]

Have a look at the freeze plugs on the side of the block and make sure they aren't seeping. If they are, get it dealt with ASAP before one blows on you. They usually build up a bunch of cruft and corrosion shit when they leak.

[monterey1962]

Actually, the antifreeze is showing up on the bottom of the lower radiator hose. There's always a drop hanging there. The hose is good (fairly new, too) and there is no sign of a leak around there. Is it possible to have a seeping type leak on a radiator hose, or would it just bust open?

[gadget73]

Might just need to snug the clamp down a little. There might be some crunk between the radiator and the hose, and its seeping around that a little.

[BlackHawkA4]

I should try that. I have a new PS Pump... but my dad broke the pully tool taking it off the other vic.

[monterey1962]

:bump:

I replaced the ps pump on the '91 GM today, but the new pump is just as noisy as the old one. I thought I did the process right when filling the pump for the first time. Nothing appears to be leaking.

Would air in the system cause the noise? What can be done to remove the air (anything without buying the specialty tool?)? Could any damage be done if the car is driven this way?

[Lincolnmania]

there is no specialty tool monty......just drive it for a few days, if it dont shut up, get a bottle of lucas ps treatment and suck ps fluid out with a dollar store turkey baster and add half the bottle of the lucas.......quietness everytime

[monterey1962]

I used a whole bottle of Lucas when filling the pump today. The car hasn't been driven much since the pump change. I'll see what happens over the next couple days.

[Lincolnmania]

keep driving lol........if it dont shut up, take the ps pump back and get a new one.......hope it isnt from autozone

[monterey1962]

Got it at CarQuest. The one I put in the '88 GM is doing good. I guess you never know what you can end up with when it comes to this remanufactured stuff.

[88grandmarq]

you need to bleed the air out of the system.

support front end on jack stands, with the engine off, turn steering wheel back and forth slowly. you will see the air bubbles coming out of the resivoir. when you dont see anymore bubbles you're done.