Braking question

[85MercPark]

I noticed today in the snow that my brakes seem unbalanced. The front would slid in the snow, but if I give a bit more the rear would grab like crazy and stop instantly.
Is this adjustable?

[boXman]

Your fronts always stop first, they do the most braking.

[mrltd]

the brakes suck ass on these cars...

but yes. In general, front brakes do 80% of the braking. And the rears being drums like to lock up quickly compared to discs. You could get a brake bias adjuster, but it prolly isn't worth the time. Get 98-02 brakes on all 4 corners. That'll help!

[Blaze86Vic]

Under normal conditions it is much more balanced. There is a ratio of traction, so as you lessen the traction quality of the surface, there becomes an inbalance between the front and the rear.

[Blaze86Vic]

I don't understand why people hate on our brakes. No it's not made for motorcrossing, but I can easily lock all 4 up at 60mph.

[85MercPark]

Thanks, what if figured.
Better brakes someday maybe

[boXman]

Have you been in a box with bigger brakes up front and discs on the back? Scott showed me how well they work in his TC, you stop a hell of a lot faster with those than the stock setup. That's why ours sucks.

[Blaze86Vic]

Have you been in a box with bigger brakes up front and discs on the back? Scott showed me how well they work in his TC, you stop a hell of a lot faster with those than the stock setup. That's why ours sucks.

How are better brakes going to make a car stop faster if the wheels are lock up?

[boXman]

They didn't lock up when he showed me how well it stops. Just came to a stop real quick.

[Blaze86Vic]

My point is, if your brakes have the ability to lock the wheels up then they have the ability to hold the wheels beyond there maximum level of traction. Which means that the weak link is the tires, not the brakes. I'm not saying big brakes are not worth it. But for daily drivers, police is fine. Beyond that, you are just going to help with your brake fade characteristics, not actualy braking force.

[85MercPark]

My point is, if your brakes have the ability to lock the wheels up then they have the ability to hold the wheels beyond there maximum level of traction. Which means that the weak link is the tires, not the brakes. I'm not saying big brakes are not worth it. But for daily drivers, police is fine. Beyond that, you are just going to help with your brake fade characteristics, not actualy braking force.

I concur. On my Park I can easily lock up my stock tires. If and when I go to 245/45/17s maybe the stock brakes won't lock up. And probably that would be best, too much and the wheels lock up and you loose control.
If you do alot of agressive driving they would be a benefit because of less fade. If I were towing a large trailer that might be a benefit too, but my camper is small and has electric brakes.

[Blaze86Vic]

I'm running 245 right now on all 4, I have all PI brakes too, and they lock up still.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Scott's car stops VERY nice for a box.

[85MercPark]

What do the PI brakes consist of?
Easy upgrade?
Do the wagons have this already?

[Blaze86Vic]

11" drums in the rear, and just larger calipers in the front.

[DuceAnAHalf]

the smallest of calipers can lock up the tires, once you can no longer lock the tires due to traction then bigger calipers will benifit you. High end brakes like Wilwood, Brembo, Alcoa are good because they can do hard braking over and over without fading. the more heat you can dissapate then the better you will be able to stop repetadly

[1BADMERC]

I thought the boxes had a proportioning valve?

Good Day

[Lincolnmania]

i drove my vic the other week........i prob wont drive it again till it gets big brakes...........i dont need to lock up my brakes........fade what fade? ask anybody that's been in my car lol............stock brakes suck.......not as bad if you got 11" drums like gadgets tc.......if the car needs ball joints and bushings, the 98-02 upgrade is a wise decision in my book
scott

[gadget73]

The stock brakes are sufficient, but they fade badly. I've towed a few times with my car, and I can tell you for certain that they are absolutely not well suited for it. Just try and stop 2 vehicles with stock brakes and you'll never want to do it again. I have the tow package, which gives me 11" rear drums vs stock 10" and its just not enough. I've driven Scott's car and the brake feel is much more solid, and requires a fair bit less pedal effort. My car's brake system is in pretty OK shape, doesn't require excessive pedal effort or travel or anything, but brake application is smoother and easier with the upgraded brakes. My car (and any box I've driven really) doesn't really have a gradual even feel to the brakes. Its more of a sudden application vs the controlled braking effort with the bigger parts. Least thats my feelings on the matter.

[mrltd]

I just never liked the fact that they locked up so easily. All of my cars had upgraded wheels, tires, and suspension. The only one that could stop decently was the 87 with the tow package (11x2" rear drums) All of the other cars would just lock up and slide-no matter what. That is BAD for trying to stop. The rear brakes need to do more. And discs out back will add more rear bias, which helps the car stop without pushing the fronts to the point of lockup. And the drums always seem to lock up more easily that discs. drums also heat up and fade way quicker.

My fox body with 4 wheel discs was incredible. It wouldn't lock the brakes up and could stop on a friggin penny from 70 in the rain without any drama. Would easily put you through the windshield. That's the way I want the wagon to stop. I also think the other contributing factor with the panthers is how soft the front suspension is, even under hard braking the suspension absorbs most of the energy and doesn't put much more wieght on the front wheels. If you got more wieght on them, it'd be more difficult to lock them up.

Damn long ass post.... :blah:

[gadget73]

Exactly. My 68 beetle and the 73 super, both with 4 wheel drum were horrible. They would lock the tires, sure but didn't stop for shit. The 73 had larger front drums and it was a little better but still crap. Converted the front to disc brakes with dual piston (one per side, non-floating caliper) and it was quite possibly the best thing I ever did to that car. Stopping was much less of a panic affair and it would actually stop after hitting a puddle. It also took 4 of the horribly designed brake adjuster star wheels away which certainly did not upset me even a little bit. This was a common discussion topic on the VW newsgroups I hung on (newsgroups, anyone remember those?) about how the disc brakes were not much, if any better than properly working drums, etc, but I can tell you this for a fact. I never saw a single person who had converted to disc fronts say they regretted it, or that it was a worthless upgrade. Those brave souls who managed to locate the correct donor Porsche to install rear discs also had no complaints once they dialed the brake bias in correctly.

[p71towny]

IAS shocks help the nose from diving under hard braking. at least for me.

[mrltd]

IAS shocks help the nose from diving under hard braking. at least for me.

Shocks do help, but heavier springs would do even more. All 3 of my previous panthers used the same shocks, but the 87 had replacement front springs and it stopped the best. It also had the bigger rear brakes because it was a towing package car.