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Pinging (and no, it's not the EGR system)

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    #1

    Pinging (and no, it's not the EGR system)

    Hello all,

    87 Grand Marq, now at 29K miles (from 18K in May)

    Noticing a pinging coming from under the hood. This only occurs after a shift, I have not been able to get it in neutral or park. Below is what I have done with the car since I bought it:

    18K Miles:

    Tune up. Cap, rotor plugs and wires. When I did the tuneup I broke on then new plugs whole tightening and it was 11:00 at night so one of my plugs is a different brand. Don't think it matters but I'm gonna mention it.

    New tires, front brake system entirely.

    A heat shield was removed because it was rattling excessively.

    20K Miles:

    Some $5 washer or grommet broke and my tranny was shifting crazy. I can't remember exactly but it was a throttle something.

    29K Miles:
    Coolant flush (actually they jumped emptied the radiator.....should have said some bing but they were my friends and they were busy)

    My first suspicion was timing as I didn't have a timing gun after my tune up. When we checked it my boss had it on the #2 plug instead of one is care readings were off and we already tried to adjust so I don't know if it was off. It's now at the proper reading.

    I have a vacuum tester and the EGR Valve and EGR solenoid is working fine. Coolant is full and not leaking and is circulating.

    I haven't tested for any other vacuum leaks with the kit yet.

    My fan clutch may be not working. I can move it with no effort at all and it is always on. My brother insists that it's not supposed to always be on but I've owned 5 of these grand marquis and every single one is always on.

    I've tried premium gas but that doesn't work.

    I just don't wanna throw money at it, and you guys are smart. I put 1200 miles a week on my car and I want to it last we'll over 100K but this pinging is gonna stop that!

    Any ideas??
    Last edited by rsolis; 08-14-2014, 04:13 PM.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Has it been checked for codes? If the EGR does not open due to leaks further back, it will tend to ping. It will do that too if it runs lean, which you will get a code for as well. If the fuel filter hasn't been changed recently, do that.

    More likely the engine is carboned up and needs a run through with some Seafoam or similar to break it up. Thats a mighty old car with no miles on it. I'm guessing a lot of sitting, or a lot of extremely short trips with light use. For the seafoam, warm the engine up and then pull a vacuum line and SLOWLY feed some in while the engine idles. When you get about a half can in, shut it off and let it sit about 10 minutes. Dump the rest in the gas tank. After it sits a while, start the motor, give it a bit of throttle to make it run ~1500 rpm and let the smoke go for a bit. That should de-carbon the engine fairly well. I had ping problems with my S10 and that treatment fixed it completely.
    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Originally posted by phayzer5
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

    Comment

      #3
      No codes as of today and I did forget to mention I did sea foam it round 19k. I can try it again. And do the fuel filter as that's not that expensive.

      Comment

        #4
        Did you check your timing. Apparantly, these cars are notorious for having the timing off
        "To Find yourself, you must first lose yourself"

        -1973 Volkswagen Bus Westy
        -1986 Honda Magna 700cc
        -1989 Lincoln Town car Signature Series
        -2011 Subaru Outback

        Comment

          #5
          when you did the timing, did you remove the "pip" prior to doing so...(its a little square plastic thing) if not, the timing will be off.....

          Comment

            #6
            Es. Pip,removed.

            Comment

              #7
              is it at 10 BTDC? I think if it pings, do you advance it or go back to 12-14 btdc?
              "To Find yourself, you must first lose yourself"

              -1973 Volkswagen Bus Westy
              -1986 Honda Magna 700cc
              -1989 Lincoln Town car Signature Series
              -2011 Subaru Outback

              Comment

                #8
                It's at 10 BTDC where it should be.

                Comment

                  #9
                  The PIP is actually the little sensor inside the distributor that the ignition module plugs into. That grey plug is the SPOUT jumper/connector.

                  as for timing... YMMV... my 88 likes about 14... the 93 mustang HO in my Lincoln will do all the way up to 20, but for idle, it likes less than 15. Although, since I got a working IAC on that one, I haven't tried timing it again to see if it'll run better at 12 at idle. The only issue I have is full closed loop with AC running... but from what others have mentioned about that car, it could be due to it having a B cam in it instead of the HO bump stick since it sounds more lumpy than a normal HO.

                  Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                  rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

                  Originally posted by gadget73
                  ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

                  Originally posted by dmccaig
                  Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    This is true. 10BTDC is usually customary, but try bumping it and do a trial and error
                    "To Find yourself, you must first lose yourself"

                    -1973 Volkswagen Bus Westy
                    -1986 Honda Magna 700cc
                    -1989 Lincoln Town car Signature Series
                    -2011 Subaru Outback

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Ok, im sorry to hi-jack the thread, but I was driving home and noticed pinging too!!! WE HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON

                      I replaced the EGR solenoid (the big one), the sensor that goes on the valve. The valve is good, holds vacuum, timing is 10 btdc.

                      I don't know what else to do. Should I back the timing off more to 12, 14btdc. Mind you it's not as loud and as it was before, but I still here pings after it changes to third and fourth gear under moderate throttle.

                      You guys mentioned the seafoam thing. Which vacuum lines do you pull to pour it in?

                      Has anyone heard of AMSOIL powerfoam. I believe you spray it in to the throttle body and it cleans its way through the intake/combustion chambers.

                      Any other recommendations?
                      "To Find yourself, you must first lose yourself"

                      -1973 Volkswagen Bus Westy
                      -1986 Honda Magna 700cc
                      -1989 Lincoln Town car Signature Series
                      -2011 Subaru Outback

                      Comment

                        #12
                        higher numbers is more advanced timing.


                        Thought for both of you. WHat happens if you apply vacuum to the EGR valve with the engine idling? It should stall or run badly. If it does not, thats a sign the intake passages are blocked up and the EGR is not actually working. THe valve can open, but if the ports are clogged, its not actually functioning and the ECM does not know. Thats actually why later types use a flow sensor vs a position sensor. The flow sensor can tell the ECM that the EGR system is flowing, the position sensor only knows the valve moved.


                        Pinging is detonation, which is caused by elevated cylinder temperatures. Lean fuel mix, advanced timing or carbon deposits are the usual suspects. In high compression motors, you need higher octane fuel but these slugs don't need it if things are working right. EGR helps to reduce cylinder temperatures, which is part of why the timing advances more when the EGR opens. If the EGR opens, but does now flow, the timing can be advanced enough to cause detonation.
                        Last edited by gadget73; 08-20-2014, 10:09 PM.
                        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                        Originally posted by phayzer5
                        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                        Comment

                          #13
                          I see. Well if i do apply vacuum to the valve while the car is running it sputters to a stall
                          "To Find yourself, you must first lose yourself"

                          -1973 Volkswagen Bus Westy
                          -1986 Honda Magna 700cc
                          -1989 Lincoln Town car Signature Series
                          -2011 Subaru Outback

                          Comment

                            #14
                            so perhaps I should go from 10 btdc back to 12 or 14 BTDC and see what happens
                            "To Find yourself, you must first lose yourself"

                            -1973 Volkswagen Bus Westy
                            -1986 Honda Magna 700cc
                            -1989 Lincoln Town car Signature Series
                            -2011 Subaru Outback

                            Comment

                              #15
                              More advance = higher chance for pinging. If you are getting pinging at 10º, you will get more of it at 12º+. Retarding the timing will reduce the amount of ping.

                              Fill the tank with premium fuel and see if the ping goes away.

                              Alex.

                              Comment

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