Mod Motor Box Madness

[P72Ford]

The new 7 Litre mystery motor was supposedly talked about in the October issue of MM&FF.

There were no details, and the desciption was brief. It basically said the sparkplugs are on the bottom of the head (like a wedge head), and that the car (Don Bowles Mustang) runs on E85 to the tune of low 9's.

The ZO6 has nowhere near the mass appeal as the shelby. But, when it is looked at in a comparison test, sports car or not, it is competition to the Super Snake. It is priced less, and I'm sure performance will be about the same. Despite the 700+ hp the snake has, the ZO6 should give it a run for its money. No one cares whether its a pony car or a sports car. People care about the appeal and the performance, and even though is a chivvy, I bet it'll be stiff competition. Sure the snake has the power advantage, but its portly to say the least, and I'm sure Ford won't have it suspended adequately to even compete with a ZO (especially with a solid axle) on any road that isn't straight.

Ford should put the same engine in the now defunct GT, and keep the same level of handling it has. I doubt all of those 725 horses will ever see the ground effectively in a Mustang. I'm sure the 600 horse snake would get devoured by the ZO6. Its going to take more than 100 extra horses to outrun a ZO6 in a GT 500.

[Mercracer]

The ZO6 has nowhere near the mass appeal as the shelby. But, when it is looked at in a comparison test, sports car or not, it is competition to the Super Snake. It is priced less, and I'm sure performance will be about the same. Despite the 700+ hp the snake has, the ZO6 should give it a run for its money. .

If it is one thing Ford guys do and do well is take what Ford gives them and beat up on everyone with it. After about the first 10 minutes on the street, the Ford guys will have tweaked the Super Snakes to seek and destroy any and all unsuspecting Z06s they might meet..... The only Z06s giving SS Shelbys a run for their money will be the ones fortunate enough to find an owner who can't drive and who can't handle a wrench....

[P72Ford]

If it is one thing Ford guys do and do well is take what Ford gives them and beat up on everyone with it. After about the first 10 minutes on the street, the Ford guys will have tweaked the Super Snakes to seek and destroy any and all unsuspecting Z06s they might meet..... The only Z06s giving SS Shelbys a run for their money will be the ones fortunate enough to find an owner who can't drive and who can't handle a wrench....

Maybe true, but what about those guys that decide to do some simple mods to their ZO6? From what I've read, a better cam and headers will bump the power to 600. The thing is, the Corvette might be able to plant that extra power too, seeing as it is designed as a little bit of a better handler than any Mustang.

Anyway, I suspect the SS Shelby's will be fairly unsual to see on the street. What are they, 2007, 2008 only? Its a cool idea, with nostalgic flair (although a little gawdy), and I really do hope it is as dominant as everyone hopes.

Its slated to run about 72K, but I'm not sure if thats with the 600 or 725 horse engine. 72 G's is a lot of money, especially if you're like the majority of the population with 5 figure salaries. I suspect most people would rather by a base Mustang GT, or GT 500 and mod that. In 5.0 they were able to get 700+ whp with a Kenne Belle (2.6, or 2.8) blower and smaller pulley, a larger tb, long tubes w/ full exhaust and a tune. They made even more with the addition of a water/ meth injection. It is not hard to make nasty power with the 5.4 superchared engine. I would rather have a regular old GT 500 over the KR or SS, because even though it is somewhat rare, its not as rare as the KR or SS. I wouldn't feel bad about beating on it. I'd have it modded myself (the 725 horse SS doesn't have a warranty anyway).

[Mercracer]

Like I said, I eat macaroni and cheese too so I won't be buying a SS any time soon either. It is a sure deal that my motor at SF08 is going to have pushrods....

[Pirate]

Okay, time to add my $2.00's worth....

First of all? the OHC motors are superior engines. In addition, have spent some time playing with some N/A 96-up Cobras, I have very little reason to ever go back to a regular OHV engine. Run any 4.6 cobra up to 6800 rpm. It doesn't sound like it's straining. Try that with a 302, or 351? Almost every regular OHV engine I have worked on, built, or driven sounds sloppy in comparison simply going over 4K, short of a couple of NASCAR winston cup motors I have heard, in person, on the dyno, but these are $50,000+ pieces using the best of everything.

Something to keep in mind here: The two engine families are modified in different manners. First thing to do with a 5.0 motor? Cam, intake, and heads, and all of those being replaced by aftermarket pieces. In comparison, a 4.6 DOHC N/A doesn't really need heads or an intake manifold, up until the 400 HP mark, and a simple port/polish job, of the original equipment, takes care of that. Cams add power in both engines, but I have seen simple degreeing-in of stock cams giving some HP boosts, of around 10-15 HP, with custom grinds adding upwards of 40+. Add a blower or turbo, to the stock 4.6 DOHC, with no other mods, and you get a 440 hp beast, more if you feel like living dangerously with the stock pistons. Try that with any stock pushrod small block. Granatelli Motorsports made 1200 HP with a mostly-stock, single-turbo 5.4 Navigator long block....stock crank, stock rods, stock heads and valves, the only mods being different intake(modded stock), pistons, cams, and springs. Try that with any stock small OR big block pushrod engine. It's not going to happen unless you replace.....everything.

It's not really fair to compare the two engine families. The 4.6 is not a small block chevy-style of engine to compare against, even the 4.6 SOHC makes great power with very few mods...and you don't have to replace half the engine with aftermarket parts in the process.

[P72Ford]

Okay, time to add my $2.00's worth....

First of all? the OHC motors are superior engines. In addition, have spent some time playing with some N/A 96-up Cobras, I have very little reason to ever go back to a regular OHV engine. Run any 4.6 cobra up to 6800 rpm. It doesn't sound like it's straining.

There is no doubt that the OHC engines love to rev up. My friends stock Mark VIII loves to get into the high range of the tach.

As far as the stock Navigator block supporting 1200 hp, I'm strugggling with that. I've always read that the rods are the weakest link in the Mod engine short block. The cranks are forgings from the factory though; they should be able to support plenty of power, although 1200 seems like stretch.

They are a great design; I have a fondness for the SOHC 16V more than any of them, although a 32V looks really sweet with the big blue valve covers.

The pushrod and OHC engines really can't be compared, they both have their ups and down.

[mrltd]

Gasoline powered V8's, Internal combustion 4 strokes.... I think they are in the same category.

Well, I guess they could be. Ancient tech, and slightly less ancient tech.

[P72Ford]

Gasoline powered V8's, Internal combustion 4 strokes.... I think they are in the same category.

Well, I guess they could be. Ancient tech, and slightly less ancient tech.

There, I fixed it for you.

I didn't realize I was being scrutinized so closely. I should have noted that they are in two seperate subcategories within the Gas V8 category.

The OHC V8 actually is old tech for Ford. They had the SOHC in the 60's (though not really avaliable for the public). They also had the cosworth (?) DOHC that was run in Indy cars, I think. The Lotus Fords?

I also believe Ford is the only domestic brand to currently offer the OHC V8, no?

[mrltd]

The OHC motor is about as old as the internal combustion motor. Not one new thing about it. It's just taken this long to become cheap and easy to produce (for thick headed americans)

Yeah, I think ford is the only one. Chevy uses a pushrod motor with Ford heads, dodge is using the whole retro Hemi and well, that's it.

[P72Ford]

Ford was the first to make an affordable V8, and they're the first to make and affordable OHC V8, domestically speaking.

Aha, there is a hole in my thought (I just realized this). The Northstar Cad is an OHC V8, that is also affordable. Didn't those come out after the Ford though?

[Mercracer]

Yeah, I think ford is the only one. Chevy uses a pushrod motor with Ford heads, dodge is using the whole retro Hemi and well, that's it.

The new "Hemi" is retro in name only. It doesn't have true hemispherical chambers. Ford's SOHC 427 out hemi'd the Dodge Hemi. It had true hemispherical chambers and made more power. The downfall was cost. Ford's CVH 4 cylinder family used a hemi type chamber in the 80s through the new 2000+ cars. Later SPI heads, Zetec and tehn Durtec heads were evolutions away from this design.

[mrltd]

Yeah, It's all part of trying to get the name out there and use some ancient name recognition.

Yeah, caddy's northstar. Forgot about that. Good motor. Was first used in 1993, and was supposed to be released in 92. That's the same year the Mark 8 debuted and 1 year after Ford started using the 4.6L in the panther chassis.

[DuceAnAHalf]

Yeah, It's all part of trying to get the name out there and use some ancient name recognition.

Yeah, caddy's northstar. Forgot about that. Good motor. Was first used in 1993, and was supposed to be released in 92. That's the same year the Mark 8 debuted and 1 year after Ford started using the 4.6L in the panther chassis.

and it had the starter INSIDE the motor

[nitroracer]

and it had the starter INSIDE the motor

What???

[P72Ford]

and it had the starter INSIDE the motor

Sweet. It seems I remember my auto machinist telling me there was something hidden under the intake manifold. I acn't remember what iut was though. Maybe it was a different engine.

But, theose Caddy's have the water jackets surrounding the bores (like the LS series engines). In high HP apps (yes I've heard of a 1000+ hp Northstar) the bores can actually walk around. Great. Thats why people sleeve the LS series engines when they want to make mucho hp.

Oh yeah, the reason they use the water jackets around the bores is because its cheap, and they can reuse some parts of the mold.