fastest box?

[1990LTD]

If you are going to spend that much on heads, you might as well get all you can for your money. Buy the 185s, or better yet TW 190s, put the right intake on it, have a cam ground, put a 3000+ stall converter in it, and 4.10s in the rear.

Don't build a 13 second car when you can build a 12 second car for the same money.

I don't plan on any more displacement than 302...maybe 351 if I happen upon a good motor but no boring or stroking. What's the "right" intake? I've been trying to figure this out...i see lots of different answers. I want a 12-13 second fuel injected naturally aspirated grocery getter.

As for having a cam ground...I don't know where the hell to start. Do you work with the cam grinder, telling them what you want from the motor and what parts you have already etc?

I'm going to keep my half-HO motor until I can afford to either rebuild it properly with the aforementioned heads/cam/intake or buy a 351 and do it to that motor. If I'm going to go through the bother of yanking the motor out, apart, and putting new parts in, I'm gonna do it right.

[P72Ford]

A 302 can easily make use of 185 heads.

[1990LTD]

How about the 190s you speak of? I see they seem to be recommended over the AFRs...apparently the AFRs are prettymuch at their max out of the box and on the TWs there's some material there to get rid of if you want to. Sounds better because who knows what I'll do to it in future

[zoomie]

best intake would be either a tubular gt40 lightning intake, or a holley system maxII

[1990LTD]

would there be any problems mating them to the twisted wedge heads? the holley intake is not made of hens teeth so that would be way more likely my choice

[1990LTD]

I'll have a harder time convincing people it's stock if they ask me to open the hood.


"latch is broken, held shut with zip ties"

[1990LTD]

I was looking at the heads on summit and a window popped up saying a tech is available to chat about the part...so he tells me I can use the heads with that manifold. Score.


I'm curious about the custom camshaft thing though.

[P72Ford]

TW 190s are better yet.

The intake will depend on the cam. There are plenty of guys that do custom grinds, that would recommend the best intake for your cam choice. You shouldn't limit yourself to conventional style intakes though. A carbed intake with injector bosses and an elbow would probably be my choice...

You'll need a fairly stout bottom end, fuel system, and tuning to make it run well with EFI.

[1990LTD]

how so? thanks for the help btw

[1990LTD]

how so? thanks for the help btw

That sounds wrong - I mean, I know there's a relationship between intake and cam choice but I don't know what it is. Right now it's voodoo. Besides the rpm range you need to know for the intake, I know jack shit about cam specs but I'm trying to learn.

[P72Ford]

If it was simple, then everyone would be doing it. There is no black and white here, really.

The cam grinder is going to have a recommendation for what intake is going to work best with your cam. The camshaft can be killed, or optimized with intake choice.

Different people are going to have different opinions on what works best. Thats why you choose a reputable grinder, as his recommendations are probably based on positive results from past customers, and significant testing.

One grinder may say that you should use a Victor intake with an an elbow, and another may say that you should use a TF track heat. It depends not only on the cam and heads (no one puts a stock LO intake on a set of raised port heads, with a cam that has 300 degrees of advertised duration), but also on the cam grinder's theory (what he feels works best in engine component choice).

Some may favor 'smaller' intakes because they believe in a 'fast moving air' to build torque, and others may say that is bunk, and that a single plane, high rise intake will not kill your low rpm performance if you pair it with the right components.

I'll be the first to tell you that I know very little about piston engine theory. And the same is true of almost anyone. You can put together hundreds of engines, and still not know how to optimize performance. I know how engines are assembled, and I know a little about the theories (there is more than 1 school of thought) behind what makes for good performance. I also have a decent background in fluid mechanics.

Performance engine building is a black art. There is theory, which varies wildly. Different people have used different theories, and experienced success. But it isn't something you just learn overnight; it takes alot of time, money, testing, and extrapolating for folks to derive and develop their theories. Some folks will share why they may suggest what they do, and some do not. It is their livelihood, after all.

I do know of one cam grinder who is happy to share is line of thought.

[gadget73]

Most good cam grinders will ask you specifically what parts you're planning to use and what you want to get out of the motor before even trying to make a cam for you. Based on what you're looking at, they may suggest different parts though. Its definitely true that changing the intake can make or break a particular engine combo though. Those custom cam grinds are truly customized to the specific hardware on your specific engine in your specific car. Change any of the parameters, and you might wipe out the gains of a custom camshaft.

[1990LTD]

What is a stock shortblock able to handle? If I go the route of a custom cam/heads/intake setup, or just a trickflow top end kit, I don't know what the bottom end will think of it. The top end kit claims 360hp and I don't know what kind of torque - fairly respectable power but I don't know how a kit designed for a Rustang will fare in a sled like a panther.

I am not opposed to tearing into the bottom end but if I do I might as well make it a 306 and put better pistons in...what say you lot? If I can get away with the stock internals and "refresh" everything except leave the pistons/crank in there. The car has about 100k miles on it. It doesn't burn oil or make noise, not sludged up.

again, if I happen upon a good 351 bottom end somewhere, I'll go that way and rebuild that since I won't know the motor or service history. On that note, what variety of 351 would I be looking for? Something I wouldn't need to worry about part selection with

[P72Ford]

I would do the shortblock. Not sure what you're looking to spend, but there are solutions that would run the specturm of budget options.

The TFS Stage 1 cam is an older grind. The cam itself is about half the price of more modern HR grinds, which is why I think some people use it. Its like a letter cam.

If you do the bottom end, you could use pistons that would provide improved PTV clearance, which would open up some better cam options.

[Mercracer]

The TFS Stage 1 cam is an older grind. The cam itself is about half the price of more modern HR grinds, which is why I think some people use it. Its like a letter cam..

Define "modern". With virgin GT40P castings, a stock Explorer shortblock and a TFS Stage 1 cam I run high 12s NA in my Capri. That translates to high 13s in a Crown Vic. A TFS Stage 1 in a 351W with GT40 or GT40P heads is good for near 400HP.
Letter cams are not split duration and lift.