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Whats causing this hop/shudder problem?

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    Whats causing this hop/shudder problem?

    I've had this annoying shuddering from my car on uneven pavement for a long time. If one wheel hits a rough spot, the wheel will jerk noticeably and it actually feels like one of the wheels is hopping. Its especially bad on curves and will make the front end stop steering for a split second till things regain proper traction. The fenders also have a noticeable "dancing" to them. I'm fairly sure its the body mounts are fried, but just wanted to get some opinions. Just for reference, suspension info and repairs below:

    Shocks:
    front KYB GR-2 about a year and a half old. Had them out within the last month, still feel fine. Shocks have normal charge with no slack or stiff spots in thier travel.
    Rear: Gabriel Hi-Jackers, on the car when I got it, probably 3-4 years old. In serviceable shape but I think they're getting a bit loose. The air is usually in the 10-30 psi range depending on amount of crap in trunk, etc. Adding more air manually makes the problem worse.

    Springs:
    front HD sedan coils, 433 in/lb, less than a month old
    rear: stock wagon coils, 21 years old from 85MercPark's car.

    Front bushings:
    All new polyurathane ES parts, installed March 2006

    Rear bushings:
    upper new rubber installed late summer/early fall 2005
    lower originals and fairly dead.

    There is a 1" rear sway bar attached to the rear LCA, front is standard wagon stock 1 3/16" hollow with newer rubber body mount bushings and poly endlinks.

    All front suspension and steering parts were replaced March 2006. I have recently (this weekend) checked it out again, no play in the ball joints or steering system. Hub bearings are fine. Tires are at 40 PSI on 225/60/16 size tires. They're H rated, less than a year old, with excellent tread remaining.

    Its had this problem since before the front end was rebuilt, but it was a hell of a lot worse. Initially I attributed it to dead front suspension parts. Later after the rebuild, I assumed it was the overly tall springs causing the shocks to over-extend, now I don't know wtf the problem is. The only thing that really remains is the body mount bushings which I know to be dead. The rear bushings cause another problem, but thats with the rear axle jumping in curves. This is a problem with the front suspension on straight runs and in curves as well.

    Mostly I'm just wondering if other folks have thoughts on things to check in addition to the body mounts and the rear LCA bushings. I'm trying to figure out a source for replacement body mount bushings, but they aren't listed anywhere that I can find. I'm hoping to come up with measurement info somewhere so I can find a compatible bushing from some other application.
    Last edited by gadget73; 01-08-2007, 12:35 AM.
    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Originally posted by phayzer5
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

    #2
    I have a similar thing. Not sure what it is. How is the alignment? That could cause all kinds of issues. Could also be the tires, at least for the pulling/jerking issue...
    Builder/Owner of Badass Panther Wagons

    Busy maintaining a fleet of Fords

    Comment


      #3
      Toe and camber are fine, caster is 1/2 degree off side to side, just enough to make it pull to the right a bit. The wheel runs about 11:00 to make the car go straight. I've been meaning to get it re-done yet again (this will make 4 times now I think) with hopes that eventually I will find someone that can make the car go straight.
      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

      Originally posted by phayzer5
      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

      Comment


        #4
        Need to come down to my alignment guy....

        As for the body mounts, rip a couple off the red TC and get the measurements. We can make our own poly replacements.
        Builder/Owner of Badass Panther Wagons

        Busy maintaining a fleet of Fords

        Comment


          #5
          I think Boxman has some new OEM body mounts. Need to snag them from him for measurements. I'm not sure I want poly mounts though. I'd imagine that would transmit a lot more vibration and noise into the car. Cant be worse than the dead rubber parts it has now though.
          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

          Originally posted by phayzer5
          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

          Comment


            #6
            Nice thing about poly, you can order it in different durometers. So, we could have hockey pucks or jello... get the measurements and we can figure something out. McMaster-car sells poly in cylinders and blocks. It's pretty easy to machine. Hell, we could even make our own molds and cast the mounts.
            Builder/Owner of Badass Panther Wagons

            Busy maintaining a fleet of Fords

            Comment


              #7
              On the alignment issue, since I had mine done the car likes to wander at high speed and I have to correct it constantly. On another note if the road is perfectly level I could be flying at 90mph and it will track straight as an arrow, once it pulled over a mile without me even touching the steering wheel.

              I'm thinking, maybe my toe is off? Camber and caster are set to specs, tire wear is even and not noticeable at all. Toe is set to about 1* out I think, will bringing it make the care more stable at high speed? An offroad-type steering stabilizer will be installed at some point die to having truck tires with deep tread, but for now I need a cheap and easy fix.

              Comment


                #8
                Ideally you want about as close to zero toe as possible. Having toe out will make the car slightly darty, especially at high speed. Crowned roads will make it drift just because they aren't level. Ideally, you want the caster just a bit lower on the driver's side, by maybe 1/4-1/2 degree. It will make the car inclined to go slightly left, which counters the crown. My car is aligned with the caster 1/2 degree low on the wrong side, adding to the problem. Interestingly, if I drive on the wrong side of the road it's perfect. I guess I need to move to England.

                Somewhere 88grandmarq posted suggested alignment specs from Ned Nuss, the Ford suspension engineer who did lots of the work on the Panther chassis. If you get an alignment done, you might want to take those specs with you. I tried it, but they got the caster backwards and didn't adjust it in both points as I requested.
                86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                Originally posted by phayzer5
                I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                Comment


                  #9
                  No alignment getting done in the near future as apart from the high-speed "darty" behavior the car drives perfectly. Don't remember the actual settings the morons at Firestone did, but they were pretty close to what Ned Nuss recommended, except form the toe I guess. I'll bring it in 1/4 turn of the adjusting sleeves when it ain't that freakin cold outside, that'll give me some better basis for decisions on the next steps (if any are needed).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    yes a decent alignment is hard to come by around here

                    1986 lincoln towncar signature series. 5.0 HO with thumper performance ported e7 heads, 1.7 roller rockers, warm air intake, 65mm throttle body, 1/2" intake spacer, ported intakes, 3.73 rear with trac lock, 98-02 front brake conversion, 92-97 rear disc conversion, 1" rear swaybar, 1 3/16" front swaybar, 16" wheels and tires, loud ass stereo system, badass cb, best time to date 15.94 at 87 mph. lots of mods in the works 221.8 rwhp 278 rwt
                    2006 Lincoln Town Car Signature. Stock for now
                    1989 Ford F-250 4x4 much much more to come, sefi converted so far.
                    1986 Toyota pickup with LSC wheels and 225/60/16 tires.
                    2008 Hyundai Elantra future Revcon toad
                    1987 TriBurner and 1986 Alaska stokers keeping me warm. (and some pesky oil heat)

                    please be patient, rebuilding an empire!

                    Comment

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