85 351 4door Vic **DUW**

[johnunit]

Now that we're all caught up on what's actually been DONE to the car, here's the plan for the future. I know I've been prattling on about plans for the future in here for a while, but I'm going to have somewhere in the neighbourhood of 5 thousand dollars set aside for this car by may, so it's all a bit more real now.

The Big Picture
For the forseeable future, this car will remain appearing bone-stock. There are a few reasons for this, but mainly the laws here are stupid, and the less I look like a hotrodder, the less the police will pull me over.

This will extend to the engine bay. I have purchased a used intake and new Duraspark-type ignition for a mid 80s F-series truck.

The intake is a four barrel, and in as-cast form made as much as 290HP in marine engines. It is cast iron (bad because it's heavy) but it has a ford part number and pretty big runners, while being low profile enough that it should fit under the hood.

T his will be combined with a rebuilt Holley 4-barrel in the 650CFM range. Vacuum secondaries, electric choke, all emissions equipment INTACT. It will be stuffed under either a modified version of the original air cleaner, or the similar dual-snorkel air cleaners on 4-barrel fox body mustangs, with the 5.0 HO script changed to 5.8.

The basic idea is to make this car look like a stock setup. Unless you know that the very oddball civilian canadian 351W crown vics came with a variable venturi only, you'd never know I'd changed anything.


But John, you say, this thing sounds like it WILL be pretty close to stock. all ford OEM parts, where does the performance come in?

Aluminum heads (probably Trick Flow 185 Twisted Wedge)
custom-ground billet cam (shooting for a relatively mild idle, 5300RPMish peak power)
BBK 351W swap headers
Mustang catted 2.5 inch H-pipe
performance mufflers (still have a few different thoughts on this)
Impala tails
Best-of-the-best supporting stuff for this, like header wrap, roller rockers, etc.
Tranny upgrades, at least a new governor and shift kit.
3-gauge oil pressure (?) - tach - water temp bezel that will slide out of site below the ashtray

I should be able to get all this done by may-june with the exception of the heads. I may end up putting everything else together and putting back my current heads, home ported. I would still go back in and put aftermarket heads on later.

The headers are, obviously, not going to look stock. However, it appears they just don't make the 351W-compatible downpipe anymore for these cars. This means that it is actually much simpler to use the headers, which are longer to reach down and fit up with any crown vic or mustang h-pipe. Thanks to Gadget (I think?) for that info. I will use some creatively done header wrap to somewhat cover them up, but they're emissions legal and nothing exotic, so I'm not overly concerned about it ruining the stock vibe underhood.

After all this is done, I will re-evaluate my rear gears depending on how the car drives and if I'm still driving as much.

I'm also still looking for all sorts of chrome. I am waiting for my mirror to arrive, but am still looking for stripless bumpers, and plenty of other badges, handles, etc.

I got a quote for my vinyl top: 400ish if I rip off the top and remove trim myself, and 800 for the shop to do it all. That's tempting. It's not obvious in the photos, but the top is VERY badly faded and cracked. It turns about 2/3 turqoise if I go more than a week or so without soaking it in Autoglym Vinyl Dressing.

The parts I've collected so far:

Duraspark II ignition box




351W truck intake, this will be ported as best I can



I'm all a bit new to this, by which I mean I've never done anything more complex than swapping two identical carbs by myself, so any tips, suggestions, etc. are welcome, as well as any offers or leads on parts I've mentioned here.

Thanks for reading.

[87gtVIC]

John. Great maintenance work. Always good to take car of the things that are messed up, messing up as they may just get worse as you leave them.

I think you are a bit nuts for intending to go over the fender braces with some filler. They look fine...but I like that you are thinking about it. If you never used body filler before (any type) it is good to begin learning on little pieces like that. AFAIK they only came on wagons...as that is the only place I have ever seen them installed.

I have to agree that the exhaust is a little low. I like the popping though Does is sound that low in person?

As far as the engine build goes I cannot offer any advice because I do not know squat about engine combo stuff but it sounds good to me. I am sure you can do it even if you never done it before. All you need is some time and patience and I am sure it can get done.

[87gtVIC]

Oh I forgot to mention. Please pull off the top yourself as you will just be sad if they do it because all of your trim will be ruined. I can tell you that nobody cares about your car more than yourself and they dont give two shits about what happens to it. I can walk you through the entire process. It takes time getting access to all of the trim but it is definitely worth it doing it yourself when finding replacement pieces will be hard and time consuming.

[sly]

yeah... that is one thing I loved about the Esteem I had... the obscene gas mileage. I'd get 28mpg doing 80 with the A/C on in the dead of summer here in Texas (105+ heat with 70%+ humidity).

and yeah... the stock stereo is made by Clarion IIRC. It's not too shabby.

[johnunit]

John. Great maintenance work. Always good to take car of the things that are messed up, messing up as they may just get worse as you leave them.

I think you are a bit nuts for intending to go over the fender braces with some filler. They look fine...but I like that you are thinking about it. If you never used body filler before (any type) it is good to begin learning on little pieces like that. AFAIK they only came on wagons...as that is the only place I have ever seen them installed.

I have to agree that the exhaust is a little low. I like the popping though Does is sound that low in person?

As far as the engine build goes I cannot offer any advice because I do not know squat about engine combo stuff but it sounds good to me. I am sure you can do it even if you never done it before. All you need is some time and patience and I am sure it can get done.

I've worked with body filler on large panels before, but metal-reinforced stuff and parts this small are new to me. I wouldn't bother, but the paint is chaffed so it has to come off anyway.

The exhaust is very close to silent in person. Occasionally at a stop light you can hear the idle burble, but even full throttle in a tunnel you're hearing 99% the engine/intake sound that you hear in the in-car vids.

[johnunit]

yeah... that is one thing I loved about the Esteem I had... the obscene gas mileage. I'd get 28mpg doing 80 with the A/C on in the dead of summer here in Texas (105+ heat with 70%+ humidity).

and yeah... the stock stereo is made by Clarion IIRC. It's not too shabby.

hell yeah, I'm getting over 370KM (235 miles) a tank in stop-and-go traffic with lots of winter-car abuse while still being newish to standard. So about 25MPG in aggressive city driving with jack-rabbit starts, 2-3 minute warmups, and lots of idling. Remarkable.


But at the end of the day, it doesn't sound, feel, look, or drive like the Vic, so it's a poor substitute.

[91waggin]

oh btw those plugs look fine. Stock setup is super lean for mileage purposes. Mine look just like that.

[pantera77]

The car is pretty quite in person. I know I even remarked on that.

And how much of this will be done by STAP? I need to know what car to bring so I can destroy you.

[johnunit]

Assuming it doesn't look like the floor under a brake lathe when I pull the intake or something, everything should be done by STAP. The wildcard is whether I can afford the heads.

At a minimum:

holley 4 barrel
ported intake
complete exhaust with headers
custom grind cam
tranny shift kit and HO governor
ported stock heads if I can't do the aluminum heads

[johnunit]

I figure it'll be a close match for the wagon with the combo above, but if I get the heads and gears in, it should at least be able to keep up with the HPP.

[pantera77]

I figure it'll be a close match for the wagon with the combo above, but if I get the heads and gears in, it should at least be able to keep up with the HPP.

That combo will probably blow the wagon out of the water. At least in it's current state. The 89 should put up a fight though.

[P72Ford]

In my opinion that intake manifold is a turd, and is going to be a limiting factor, especially with aftermarket heads. I had that intake in aluminum form, from Edelbrock, on my '90. Had the EGR, etc, etc. Its basically a truck unit in aluminum.

If you don't know anything about porting, you can do more harm than good. Material removal is not the primary concern.

If you're that bent on that intake... you'll need an EGR plate. You can re-use your valve. I have an iron EGR plate from an '80s Mustang that will work (had it on mine). Edelbrock also makes the 8053, which is the plate in aluminum.

Do you have to pass a sniffer test, or visual? Both?
If I were you, I'd go and get a decent intake (Weiand Stealth, Performer RPM), and put a dummy EGR on it. Grind the logo off it if you wish, paint it, do as you please. Its going to make a difference.

What gears does the car have? 2.73? 3.08? You'll need more. 3.55s if you're that concerned with economy, 3.73s if its less of a concern (hwy difference is minimal). A converter would be advantageous for you as well. Nothing crazy if you're going to have an idle-5300 grind, though.

Don't bother porting the heads that are on the car. If you're going to change the heads, make it worth it. The heads you have are large chamber; probably mid 8s for compression ratio. Even if you just use GT40s, or even home ported E7s, you'll be better off than using what you have. If I were you, I'd wait and figure out your heads before you spec a camshaft. With the right top end, you can make some power.

What are you planning on using for a TV cable? If you're going to use the Lokar kit, which some say is junk, then you should also get the geometry corrector. The Lokar kit has good build quality, but supposedly the pressure curve it provides is off.

The DS2 ignition will work well for your combo, I think. I never had an issue with mine. If you get to a point where you want to turn more rpm, it'd probably beneifit you to add an aftermarket module. You can hide it, and it will stabilize spark output at higher rpm.

[johnunit]

In my opinion that intake manifold is a turd, and is going to be a limiting factor, especially with aftermarket heads. I had that intake in aluminum form, from Edelbrock, on my '90. Had the EGR, etc, etc. Its basically a truck unit in aluminum.

If you don't know anything about porting, you can do more harm than good. Material removal is not the primary concern.

If you're that bent on that intake... you'll need an EGR plate. You can re-use your valve. I have an iron EGR plate from an '80s Mustang that will work (had it on mine). Edelbrock also makes the 8053, which is the plate in aluminum.

All good info.

I know the intake will be a limiting factor to some extent. If the combo comes together and it's a complete turd, I'll look for other options. For the time being though, this is a budget build that won't see over 5500rpm too often, so I'm not overly worried.

I've done a lot of research on the porting, but I know that I can't do too much with a smallish dual-plane, and will probably limit the work to removing casting imperfections and gasket-matching.

I had been wondering about EGR, as I've never had the chance to look at a ford emissions 4-barrel setup closely in person. I will be using EGR, so I may be contacting you about the plate as things come together.

Do you have to pass a sniffer test, or visual? Both?
If I were you, I'd go and get a decent intake (Weiand Stealth, Performer RPM), and put a dummy EGR on it. Grind the logo off it if you wish, paint it, do as you please. Its going to make a difference.

I'd rather have everything functioning as original. There is just a visual test, but having the EGR working will satisfy both the tree-hugger and the engineer in me.

However, if this combo doesn't meet my expectations, obviously the intake is the first thing that will go. This car will be my summer daily driver and it's over an hour to get to a drag strip, so ultimate power isn't a huge concern, just a nice thing to have in my back pocket.

What gears does the car have? 2.73? 3.08? You'll need more. 3.55s if you're that concerned with economy, 3.73s if its less of a concern (hwy difference is minimal). A converter would be advantageous for you as well. Nothing crazy if you're going to have an idle-5300 grind, though.

Gears will be going in at some point. I'm waiting a bit because, unlike everything else, it's something I don't feel comfortable doing in my driveway. I'll choose gears as a last step once I have a feel for what the rest of the combo requires.

That said, I'll probably go with 3.55s.

Don't bother porting the heads that are on the car. If you're going to change the heads, make it worth it. The heads you have are large chamber; probably mid 8s for compression ratio. Even if you just use GT40s, or even home ported E7s, you'll be better off than using what you have. If I were you, I'd wait and figure out your heads before you spec a camshaft. With the right top end, you can make some power.

I'll probably take your advice on this. It will get 180+CC heads at some point, it's just a matter of when (and I just got laid off an hour ago, so it might be a while). If money works out so that I won't be able to get the aftermarket heads for a while, I'll see if I can get a good deal on some GT40s. I don't really think the time and expense of buying E7s and probably having machining done to them is worth it as an intermediate step that'll be on the engine for less than a year.

If I do go GT40s, I might get a cam ground to match, since it'd probably still work reasonably well with an aftermarket head. If I stay with the current heads, I'll just save myself the 400ish bucks of putting in a custom cam twice.

What are you planning on using for a TV cable? If you're going to use the Lokar kit, which some say is junk, then you should also get the geometry corrector. The Lokar kit has good build quality, but supposedly the pressure curve it provides is off.

I will be going with the Lokar kit. I don't recall hearing about the geometry corrector. Is this the little 2 or 3 bracket kit that summit sells under it's house brand name?

The DS2 ignition will work well for your combo, I think. I never had an issue with mine. If you get to a point where you want to turn more rpm, it'd probably beneifit you to add an aftermarket module. You can hide it, and it will stabilize spark output at higher rpm.

That's what I'm betting on. It only needs to rev as high as a stock mustang, if that.




Predictably, I've lost my job the day after I formulated a firm-ish plan of what to do with the money from it. I'll probably still be able to do the stuff (minus cam) that I outlined in response to Pantera, but that probably nixes the heads until at least the summer. Balls.

[1987cp]

Yeah, header wrap will look totally factory.

Nate and I were just talking about the Summit TV correctors, and I posted up the PNs again. There are pics of mine in one of my RR threads (TCI brand, but same thing). Idea is that when you hook up the cable as Lokar specifies, you get too much cable travel. The correctors move the attachment point slightly toward the throttle shaft and provides (supposedly) the correct amount of cable travel.

[johnunit]

Yeah, header wrap will look totally factory.

Nate and I were just talking about the Summit TV correctors, and I posted up the PNs again. There are pics of mine in one of my RR threads (TCI brand, but same thing). Idea is that when you hook up the cable as Lokar specifies, you get too much cable travel. The correctors move the attachment point slightly toward the throttle shaft and provides (supposedly) the correct amount of cable travel.

It's hard to explain, but basically I'm going to use header wrap to cover up the headers as much as insulate them. It won't look factory, but the added thickness and rough texture might be less obvious at a glance (keeping in mind the stock wiring, emissions junk, etc. will cover the headers up to some extent) than shiny ceramic or chrome headers.

I saw an old picture somewhere of it done, and the effect was that viewed from the top it just looked like this weird clump of something, but at least not obviously headers.

Worst case scenario, it looks like strangely done header wrap, which isn't much worse (in terms of stockishness) than having naked headers.