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Thread: Proof emissions testing is a SCAM

  1. #1
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    Angry Proof emissions testing is a SCAM

    The CP runs clean enough to pass at the Rapid Test specs, BUT because the smog pump is bypassed, they FAILED it for missing Air Injection Components.

    READINGS / LIMITS
    HC 1.1751 / 2.0
    CO 12.2570 / 20.0
    CO2 354.1564 / ------
    NOX 1.6724 / 4.0

    Cat Conv. PASS
    Air Inj. FAIL
    O2 sensor PASS
    CEL PASS

    These nitwits spent a solid 5 minutes under the hood & with the mirror looking for the catalytic converters!'s My smog pump is siezed, so it's off to the junkyard to try & find a working one. I'll have to replace at least 2 the airpipes along with the misc. bullshit that goes with it. I'M PISSED!!! Anyone have a working pump they might want to part with if I can't find a good one? It's for a '88 5.0. Oh yeah, this is in Jefferson County, Colorado. (Denver area)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sleke View Post
    These nitwits spent a solid 5 minutes under the hood & with the mirror looking for the catalytic converters!'s My smog pump is siezed, so it's off to the junkyard to try & find a working one. I'll have to replace at least 2 the airpipes along with the misc. bullshit that goes with it. I'M PISSED!!! Anyone have a working pump they might want to part with if I can't find a good one? It's for a '88 5.0. Oh yeah, this is in Jefferson County, Colorado. (Denver area)
    Move.

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    Fastest Box In South Jersey 86VickyLX's Avatar
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    Junkyard is the best bet, those things new are like 100 bucks too much :lol:
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  4. #4
    "In science it is either physics or stamp collecting." - Ernest Rutherford 91grandmarquis's Avatar
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    That sucks, they aren't even worth the time to replace them. I like NH because we don't need them till 93. I would smack em around a bit.
    "Shakedown"- 1991 Grand Marquis GS Dual exhaust, Magnaflow xl turbos, Rear anti sway bar, Outlaw 1 wheels, 43k miles
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    Mazda5: the Anti-Van! 1987cp's Avatar
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    I should still have one somewhere. Remind me to have a look, there's been lots going on here and I tend to forget that sort of thing.

    I can't believe they were picky enough to fail you for not having a damn smog pump. Used to be, in NW Indiana, the required visual inspection was just for presence of converters - and there are reports of cars passing the sniffer just fine without functional cats, either. And even though they're one of the pickiest smog locations I know of, evidently they'll still run a test on a car even if there's no EGR or anything (though if you ask beforehand, they'll insist that everything has to be just like factory, blada, blada). The Gary area is also run by money-grubbing Democrats who like making it impossible to live normally and not get fined or arrested.

    Of course, I know relatively little overall, since I haven't been required to get a sniffer test since 1997 (moved out of NW Indiana in '99).

    Do the sniffer-test people there have some sort of agreement to put money into the pockets of approved "mechanics" who will then give them kickback money?
    Last edited by 1987cp; 02-13-2010 at 10:47 AM.
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    Play me something funky! marquisman's Avatar
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    the ironic thing is that the readings you got wont change much with the smog pump. i know this is a scam since iv noticed limits being tightend. iv also noticed that your car might fail, even if it shouldent, if the test guy doesent run you car properly. the shop where ive been working on GMGT is a test center, so iv heard it all lol

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    Mazda5: the Anti-Van! 1987cp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marquisman View Post
    iv also noticed that your car might fail, even if it shouldent,
    Like if they run it cold or something like that?
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    Play me something funky! marquisman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1987cp View Post
    Like if they run it cold or something like that?
    pretty much. they have to "heat" the engine and cats up to be hot before a test. that is why id never leave a vehicle for a test, i would show up for my appointment after a trip on the highway. that way you know the engine and cats are hot. also, depending on the shop, they might want you to fail, since the shop dont make money on the test but, they do on diagnostics and repairs. this is why all my stuff is old and exempt from testing. i dont miss going through all that crap lol

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    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    much to my surprise my car was ran three times with a broken exhaust and passed all three times. This was all in a row too! No comment regarding why it was ran three times.
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  10. #10
    fuck no, not today, thank you kindly 1990LTD's Avatar
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    I can't wait to see what emissions tests mine passes when it is up for inspection. No emissions gear whatsoever and I'm fine but it's illegal to run without a muffler
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  11. #11
    Mazda5: the Anti-Van! 1987cp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marquisman View Post
    pretty much. they have to "heat" the engine and cats up to be hot before a test. that is why id never leave a vehicle for a test, i would show up for my appointment after a trip on the highway. that way you know the engine and cats are hot. also, depending on the shop, they might want you to fail, since the shop dont make money on the test but, they do on diagnostics and repairs. this is why all my stuff is old and exempt from testing. i dont miss going through all that crap lol
    People *leave* a vehicle for an emissions test? That would be very odd. Where I used to live, you drive your own car right in and the rolling-road people hop in and take over, so running it cold is only a problem if you're an idiot. In fact, I think you'd get in trouble if you wanted to park your car there and have them take care of it for you later.

    The only rolling-road test I've been to was in '97 after buying my wagon; the year before, in '96, my Cutlass was tested by a place that just had me sit and hold the engine at 2 grand for a couple minutes.

    The shop making money on repairs is also foreign to me, because in NW Indiana the emissions test facility is state run and doesn't do repairs.
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    In Ontario it is mostly existing garages/chain shops that do the tests. You book a time for the test. Some people opt to leave the car with the shop, others don't. =-)

    It is entirely upto the vehicle owner if they want to use the same shop for repairs. As long as the shop is certified for emmsions repairs any repair they do would apply towards the repair cost limit. Your 2nd e-test after a fail is free.

    My last etest I coulda strangled the guy, kept slamming the doors shut, slammed the hood shut... That crap pisses me off, my doors shut just fine with a gentle nudge. I bit my tongue on that day...

    Alex.

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    GMN Regular andymac0035's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91grandmarquis View Post
    That sucks, they aren't even worth the time to replace them. I like NH because we don't need them till 93.
    I thought it was 96+ (OBD-II)?
    Even that (95 and older) seems to be getting sketchy lately.
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  14. #14
    Play me something funky! marquisman's Avatar
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    ^^what he said lol i think the ontario drive clean program is the biggest scam lol

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  15. #15
    Abolish the act of 1871 Lincolnmania's Avatar
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    reman smog pumps are around 40 bucks
    i have a working one here that is less than a yr old but it's a tad noisy if you need it

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    I bet in the next ten years or so, there will be a bill introduced to Congress that suggests every state in the USA to outlaw every car built before a certain year, like 2006. Also, they will soften the blow by offering incentives (much like cash for clunkers) for those who comply. Or it'll be like Japan, where nobody drives a car more than a few years, not because its "illegal" to, but just because they make it WAAAAY too expensive to keep up with their strict emissions.

    Try Jiffy Lube, they always pass my cars, no matter what, and I don't even have to bribe anyone ^^ They don't even pop the hood lol.
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    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    So you failed visual inspection. Most states have that if they actually bother to really look for the shit is a different story. I ought to fail Jersey inspection, but they don't look for anything to notice its missing. the sniffer passes with flying colors so I don't really see why it matters all that much.

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  18. #18
    "In science it is either physics or stamp collecting." - Ernest Rutherford 91grandmarquis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andymac0035 View Post
    I thought it was 96+ (OBD-II)?
    Even that (95 and older) seems to be getting sketchy lately.
    Ive been known to be wrong, haha, I know im safe though.
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    Fastest Box In South Jersey 86VickyLX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lincolnmania View Post
    reman smog pumps are around 40 bucks
    i have a working one here that is less than a yr old but it's a tad noisy if you need it
    Where mang? Mine was 100 bucks.
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    "Idiot" maneuvers I've run into by testers - all at the state facilities, as I was always too cheap to pay a mechanic to do it. All these are in New Jersey:

    1) In the 1990s I had a 1974 Dodge Dart Sport, 318. They saw a noticeably older car, so they lifted it and wiggled the front tires around. Failed me for a loose front end, and nothing else. Went back a week later, claiming that my friend adjusted the steering box (a lie). They checked it and wiggled the wheels, and I passed.

    2) Same Dart Sport, a year earlier, I had failed emissions for CO. I adjusted the carb, changed the plugs, and went to the "back door" check - where they don't redo the whole thing, just check the item(s) that you failed for. I shut the car off because the guy said it'd be a few minutes before he could get to me. When he did, he told me to fire it up and stuck the probe in BEFORE I started the car. Needless to say, while my CO was now clean, my HC was through the roof, and I failed again. Drove back a week later, didn't shut the car off because I didn't have to wait, and passed with flying colors.

    3) Mid-80s Honda Accord - yeah, it was beat up, yeah it had nearly 200K miles on it - but they failed me for a cracked tail-light lens. Didn't want to put money in this POS, but since there were no sharp edges and no missing pieces (you could see a several inch long crack in the lens, but couldn't feel anything out of place), I wondered why they failed me. Somewhere I came across the details of what can pass and fail by statute... it turns out that they can warn you of that, but if there's no while light showing because of missing pieces, and no jagged edges, they can ONLY advise you of it, can't fail you for it. Went back, showed them the Administrative Code printout, and passed.


    On the other hand:

    1) A friend's 1978 Cadillac . . failed, in fact got the 48-hour-warning thing, which he was pissed about, BUT . . several techs were spending a LONG time looking under the hood . . looking for SOMEthing but we had no idea what. Finally someone else came out, looked under the hood for 2 seconds, pointed to something, and then closed the hood. Fuel pump was spitting tiny amounts of fuel out. This I could understand as being a fire hazard.

    2) I had a 1984 Regal - for about 2 weeks before inspection, I was afraid something was up with the trans. Every time I stepped on the gas, the engine would respond right away, but it felt like there was a split-second delay before the drivetrain would "catch" . . . took it to inspection, and the guy going to do the brake test - who looked like Slash's overweight brother - was about to start, stopped abruptly, opened the hood, looked under for maybe a few seconds, closed the hood, jotted something down on the card, and continued. Everything passed except for the broken driver's side motor mount. THAT was causing the symptoms I was feeling.




    Ok, long-winded and meandering, I know . . there are apparently inept inspectors, and there are surprisingly competent ones who'll instantly catch things that you wind up glad they found.


    Overall though, my own personal view is, if the car can pass the emissions standards throughout its operating range, who the hell cares WHAT emissions devices, if any, are on it?


    Heck, I've heard tales (though never known anyone in person it happened to) that you can't even INCREASE the number of catalytic converters. So, you go from a single exhaust with one catalyst to a dual with two, which should technically make things equal if not somewhat cleaner, but it's a violation.

    Meh . . I say if it's clean, it's clean, regardless of what tech or lack thereof it uses to get there.
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