Proof emissions testing is a SCAM

[pantera77]

and would have passed with even prettier colours if he hadn't intentionally removed an emissions device.

Not everyone wants extra bullshit under their hoods.

[King_V]

Really? Got any data to back up this claim?

The air I'm breathing doesn't care what precise methods of treatment it has or hasn't received to reach a certain level of purity .... maybe the air has different opinions where you live?

I'm thinking what he means is that . . with the AIR stuff in place, the numbers he had would've been lower still...

I don't fully know the functionality of the AIR system, though.

That said, those numbers seem kind of high for a SEFI car - I think mine were significantly lower . . but I can't find my paperwork at the moment...


EDIT: hang on . . I don't know what the difference is between Rapid Test specs, and any other sort of spec . . but I guess that's what comes of every state having different standards, and even within states, different regions sometimes having different standards...

[1987cp]

I'm thinking what he means is that . . with the AIR stuff in place, the numbers he had would've been lower still...

Maybe, maybe not. I don't know from personal experience because I've never had a car tested without an air pump.

I was told about an '80s car with an outdated aftermarket carburetor and camshaft that came fairly close to passing emissions with nothing other than cats and a bit of detuning. Passed on NOx, read slightly high on CO and HC. Makes one wonder what could be done with a properly-designed custom camshaft and correctly-tuned modern carburetor.

[1990LTD]

I'm thinking what he means is that . . with the AIR stuff in place, the numbers he had would've been lower still...

I don't fully know the functionality of the AIR system, though.

That said, those numbers seem kind of high for a SEFI car - I think mine were significantly lower . . but I can't find my paperwork at the moment...


EDIT: hang on . . I don't know what the difference is between Rapid Test specs, and any other sort of spec . . but I guess that's what comes of every state having different standards, and even within states, different regions sometimes having different standards...

I think all the smog pump does is pump air into the cats...not really lowering emissions but adding more air so it's basically diluted pollution. I could be way wrong.

[1987cp]

Actually, in theory at least, the additional air can be used to complete combustion of any unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust stream. Makes some sense, as the cats provide a nice hot location for this to occur, but at the same time, plenty of cars exhibit low emissions just fine without all that extra plumbing, which in turn likes to disintegrate and create exhaust leaks in weird places.

Though come to think of it, I know basically nothing about how all this is handled in current-production vehicles. All I know is that they still have cats, and that normally a second oxygen sensor monitors the effectiveness of each cat.

[91waggin]

new cars don't have air injection because modern cats are better than old cats.

[marquisman]

my old mans 88 wagon has a NON functional thermactor system and passes no sweat. the system im sure, is there to spped up the heating process of the cats for cold start ups but, gets shut down when the vehicle is hot. the shop i deal with is good with tuning cars for a test ligitly. hes got a 87 stang with a 4bbl carb conversion and no cats, no emmisions crap and it will pass an e-test lol

[Outlaw440]

and would have passed with even prettier colours if he hadn't intentionally removed an emissions device.

Sure he would have, only because the visual inspection would've come up fine, it wouldn't reduce tailpipe emissions in the least. The fact that he passed emissions testing (what the actual emissions the vehicle was putting out was) proves this.

Lets take my truck for example, the emissions system works more or less the same for most fords with a V8 of that era..I can try to find the sheets from the testing later if you don't believe me, but in Mass we have visual inspection as well as tailpipe, from all the times i've gone they barely ever look under the hood so I figured i'd chance it and junk all that stuff, all they really check here is to see if you have a cat still.

For what it's worth, my truck came with a 351, it is a 1989 F150. When it was bone stock, I would barely pass tailpipe emissions and I mean barely, as in sometimes it wouldn't pass and i'd have to come back later, and just hope I was lucky that hour that it would pass, eventually it would. This I do not understand but it is what it is. Discussed it with some other locals with the same era ford trucks, and they were having the same problems, so I thought to myself something isn't right here.

Ripped all the AIR injection off, capped the holes in the back of the heads with some 5/8" (i think) short bolts, ripped off the smog pump and got a shorter serpentine belt, capped off all vacuum lines as to prevent any leaks and would you believe it, passed with flying colors for the next 3 years in a row. Not sure how accurate my guessing is but the engine seemed less dogged down (as if a 210hp 351 isn't a dog in the first place..but i digress) as well as another mpg or two. So does ford's system do more harm than good? From what i've found yes..

Fastforward 2 years later and the truck has Trickflow 205 CNC heads, a custom cam (with .600"+ lift mind you) 1 3/4" headers, Edelbrock carb style intake converted to efi with a 90mm TB, 3" dual exhaust, and blam-o, it passes the tests even easier, why is this? What Ford did in the 80's with smog crap was absolute junk, and I'm not just trying to be an asshole, it is flatout garbage. If you look at it in pieces you will wonder what they were thinking. Maybe it worked great when brand new (I'm sure they thought it did) but I'm not going to be replacing all that stuff every 5 years...

Of course as with anything, believe what you want..these are just my findings..I'm sure the system does some good (as others have explained) but quite frankly passing tailpipe emissions is not on its do-good list..

[johnunit]

ok, let me rephrase that. To the best of the knowledge of Ford and the EPA, keeping the AIR pump would have improved his emissions results enough to make it worth the significant extra weight.

Take it off if you want, I'm just saying that if you start taking off emissions devices, don't be surprised if the emissions testers call you on it.

I'd really be curious to see a direct comparison, where someone does a full emissions test and then removes the AIR pump and re-does the test. Maybe it would be a big difference, maybe it wouldn't even be noticeable.

The one bit of first-hand experience I have is an older ranger or F-150 that was tested at a shop I was hanging out at. It was tested 3 times and just failed the curb idle test each time. After some check, the smog pump itself was found to be seized. It was replaced and the car put out about half of the maximum allowable amount of whatever it was that it was failing. It seems to me that the difference was much smaller on the dyno-based part of the test, but it was already passing anyway. The truck was beat up, so I don't know whether the generally poor condition of the engine would increase or decrease the effect the AIR pump could have on tailpipe emissions.

The emissions testing here definetely has a high level of corruption, but it's generally at the shop end of things. Testing one car but punching in the info for another car (for a price), using a random gas cap on the gas cap tester (usually that's out of lazyness), etc.

[91grandmarquis]

The only reason that we did not put the smog back on my moms car is because we don't need it for the car to run, and it would cost money to fix, so the answer was to do without. We kept it until it seized, but up hear in NH I don't even need to have a smog on my 91 and hers is an 85.

[1990LTD]

does the smog pump do anything other than blow air at the cats? i was told by one shop that does inspections (almost every garage does inspections here) and he said it probably wouldn't be an issue, and this was when i still had the catalytic converters. since it's perfectly legal to run my car without cats, do you figure the smog pump can also go without a problem?

[pantera77]

does the smog pump do anything other than blow air at the cats? i was told by one shop that does inspections (almost every garage does inspections here) and he said it probably wouldn't be an issue, and this was when i still had the catalytic converters. since it's perfectly legal to run my car without cats, do you figure the smog pump can also go without a problem?

If you don't need cats go throw your smog pump at the first prius you see.

[marquisman]

your vic will have to run perfectly and be fully tuned to pass a test with out cats. i dont have anything against cats, yet i think they are a good idea. its just all the useless crap under the hood like the thermactor system

[91grandmarquis]

My vote is on throwing it at the next prius you see.

[marquisman]

yes, make sure it hits a battery or the high voltage cables lol