help with 351w swap

[1980c10]

I hate that damn stupid carb calculator. All it's good for is making people buy to small of a carb. A 750 is pefectly fine on a 351.

[Pesty351]

Yeah science and math is dumb its much better to guess.

[meanmercn]

Ok I think I will go with the edelbrock Avs 650 Carb and rpm intake. What stall should I run

[1980c10]

It's proven to work. I myself don't consider a proven combo guessing. I have used a 750 holley on a 350 sbc with great success myself, great power and response across the rpm range, no dead spots no hesitation, and got 17 mpg with it in a 79 chevy truck. Large carbs get a bad rep from people with the inability to tune them
correctly, as I mentioned before they are less forgiving than a smaller carb. If you engine provides a strong enough signal to move the air and atomize the fuel the carb will work.

[Mercracer]

Ok I think I will go with the edelbrock Avs 650 Carb and rpm intake. What stall should I run

You do not need more than a 2500 rpm rated stall converter with the cam and combination you plan to run and you could get away with a 2000 rpm stall.

[Mustang Bob]

it doesnt sound like you want to get too crazy with this, on a mild 351 go with the gt40 turbo swirl heads they are very efficient and flow good without being too big, i like the xe262h for this combo, rpm airgap intake, 650 double pumper (my personal preferance i dont mess with anything but double pumpers) 2200-2500 stall, reg aod with a good shift kit (the wide band isnt worth it overdrive is too low) if you dont put at least 4.10s in it you wont be happy. any decent running aod mustang has 4.10s and it is at least 800lbs lighter. you should stick with a duraspark ignition it will work fine.

[Mercracer]

it doesnt sound like you want to get too crazy with this, on a mild 351 go with the gt40 turbo swirl heads they are very efficient and flow good without being too big, i like the xe262h for this combo, rpm airgap intake, 650 double pumper (my personal preferance i dont mess with anything but double pumpers) 2200-2500 stall, reg aod with a good shift kit (the wide band isnt worth it overdrive is too low) if you dont put at least 4.10s in it you wont be happy. any decent running aod mustang has 4.10s and it is at least 800lbs lighter. you should stick with a duraspark ignition it will work fine.

I will definitely have to differ with you here. 4.10 is alot of gear. With the cam he is looking at they are absolute overkill. AOD Mustangs run very well with 3.73s. He has alot of pieces to purchase for his combo. Standard GT40s will fit the bill without spending the considerable extra money on the aluminum heads. With a heavy car and a conservative cam a double pumper is also overkill and less efficient unless your goal is to use the most fuel in the shortest distance. Ford saw fit to add the wide OD band from the factory in severe duty applications. OD is the weak link for the AOD.

[meanmercn]

Thanks guys I really appreciate all the help

[1980c10]

4.10's are not alot of gear. He said he is going to be running a 32" tire. Which will make his 4.10's act like a 3.45 if he had the stock 27" tire.

[jayh]

bunch of things here-

first off, you need to understand how an edelbrock carb works, it works alot like a quadrajet, not that it really explains it, but basically at the end of the day, a larger carb is needed
even with a holley vacuum secondary, you wont see the secondaries open all of the way

find me a marine engine, 351 or 350 that doesnt come with a 750vacuum secondary carb~ THEY ALL DO!

that formula is next to worthless, even if it did apply, it would only be to double pumpers, as I just somewhat explained, a vac sec will never use all of its potential

I would strongly suggest a 750 vac sec carb here


the trans-
An AOD NEEDS a valve body to offer any performance but also to live behind a performance motor
BUT heres my take on the gear set, I like the taller first gear and the stock AOD ratio because the car will hook better, rely on the converter for launch, then you'll have less rpm drop on the shifts
doesnt everyone have a hillbilly redneck uncle that swears by a close ratio muncie 4spd back in the day? same principle, tall first gear, with less rpm drop on each shift

the converter-
you are right on the money with 3000~ 10", heck if you have a pair, go with 3500.
a 2500 is a complete waste of money, a 2000 even more so, they are JUNK!

rear gears-
thats a toss up, a 4.10 is probably best. the fact that you are running a 32" tire, I would even consider a 4.30 or 4.56

heads-
gt40irons can work, but I would only run them if it is a true bargain, if they need machine work then, wrong answer
there are a lot of cylinder heads out there that will work here, if you can, find a deal. an edelbrock head will work good on this type of build

I like the xe270hr for this hypothetical build as I said in the other thread, if you get the compression up to about 10.5:1 a xe274hr or tfs stage 2 start to make sense, but dont even think about cams like this with a garbage 2000 or 2500 stall. I would definately lean toward the 3500 in this situation

most people who suggest tight, loosened up stock JUNK, converters have never owned a real converter and assume too much. be advised though, with a converter you usually get what you pay for, if it seems to good to be true, usually, it is

5spds are a great idea for fun factor, but are not always faster and will take some time and money to get squared away. it depends on the level of the build and what the true goals are

[Mercracer]

bunch of things here-
find me a marine engine, 351 or 350 that doesnt come with a 750vacuum secondary carb~ THEY ALL DO!
the converter-
you are right on the money with 3000~ 10", heck if you have a pair, go with 3500.
a 2500 is a complete waste of money, a 2000 even more so, they are JUNK!
rear gears-
thats a toss up, a 4.10 is probably best. the fact that you are running a 32" tire, I would even consider a 4.30 or 4.56
I like the xe270hr for this hypothetical build as I said in the other thread, if you get the compression up to about 10.5:1 a xe274hr or tfs stage 2 start to make sense, but dont even think about cams like this with a garbage 2000 or 2500 stall. I would definately lean toward the 3500 in this situation

Marine 351W motors came with a 600/650 or smaller based on year vac secondary NOT a 750..... Some came with a 450cfm carb. Please give me a single application which came with a 750 including the carb tag. The fact of the matter is that you will not find it. Example of Not a 750 is E8JL-CA
3000-3500rpm stall for a 4000# daily drive will actually make it less fun to drive. It may help your launch at the drag strip but it will only hurt you on the street. 4.30 and 4.56 gears are nothing less than silly with the proposed cam and combination.....

[1980c10]

I have 4.30 gears with a stock H.O. I suppose that's just way to much gear for my combo right? Have you ever had a car with a real, good quality converter 3k or more? I'm going to run a 3k with my stock H.O. I suppose that will ruin my car for street driving right? Have you ever used a larger carb on a motor? If so tell me why it didn't work. Other than you inability to tune it. How bout this I will use my big carbs, and stalls with steep gears, and have a fast, fun to drive street car. You use the stuff you suggest and have an ill performing doggy car, that could run alot better.

[Mercracer]

I have 4.30 gears with a stock H.O. I suppose that's just way to much gear for my combo right? Have you ever had a car with a real, good quality converter 3k or more? I'm going to run a 3k with my stock H.O. I suppose that will ruin my car for street driving right? Have you ever used a larger carb on a motor? If so tell me why it didn't work. Other than you inability to tune it. How bout this I will use my big carbs, and stalls with steep gears, and have a fast, fun to drive street car. You use the stuff you suggest and have an ill performing doggy car, that could run alot better.

You are a funny guy.
Read the thread again. I am one of the people advocating a 750 carb...:smirk:
He likely will not be running a 32" tire. As an example, it takes a 295/75-15" tire to make 32". There is simply no reason to do that with a Crown Vic unless you like the looks..
If your goal is to do burnouts and impress your friends with low speed acceleration then stick with your 4.30s. Same thing with your 3000+ RPM stall. It is great for burnouts and stoplight racing but mid range will not pull as strong with a small cam. I was tuning big carbs since long before you were born. The same thing goes for running big gears (high numerical ratio) on the street. I know what it is like to run 4.33s in a street car. I also know what it is like to run a 4500RPM converter ($1000 price tag, so yes it was good quality...) with 4.10 gears year 'round right through a WI winter.
There is a difference between fun on the street and effective on the strip. There is a difference between ideal on the strip and performance on the street once you are moving.
Here is another reality check.... Most of these types of porjects run out of cash before every dream component gets purchased and installed. Better to be conservative and progress steady than try to go nuts and stagnate.
Before you start a tirade, think about what I posted. You are free to debate combinations, but if you make another personal attack, your post will never see daylight from the Battlefield.

[Mercracer]

I have 4.30 gears with a stock H.O. I suppose that's just way to much gear for my combo right? .

You went from 3.08s right to 4.30s YOU simply do not know if that is too much gear even for the strip from your limited experience. You may actually drop ET and pick up MPH by dropping to 3.73s.
10.27 1/8 mile equates to only a 16.02 1/4 mile.

[1980c10]

I am sorry for the confusion. On the carb stand point. But I still stand by my guns on the gears and converter. Also my car has a new best of 9.99 with the new exhaust. Don't assume that goin from 3.08's to 4.30's is my first go round either, I have owned 5.0 vehicles with everything from 2.73's to 4.30's. I have gone from 3.08's to 3.27's and saw a gain, and gona from 3.55's to 3.73's and saw a gain, then on the last car before this one I went to 4.10's and still didn't see the results I wanted. So I finally went with 4.30's and have a car that accelerates the way I want not and it's almost perfect for the 1/8 going through the traps at 5500rpm, should be just about on the money when I get a 28" tire on it. And who knows once I get the stall in there and get it to 60ft and get some more mph out of it I may need to back the gear off a little to keep
me in the rpm range I want.

On the stalls I have owned a 1800 a 2000 and a 2200 before I learned my lesson all complete waste of time acted just like the stock converter, and still came out of the hole like a turd. That's why I recomend a 3k for a stock H.O. Cammed car. Anything more than that I would suggest a touch more stall. I have daily drove a 4500 stall and it wasn't to bad acted normal to me, you could obviously tell it was much looser than stock but nothing major under normal driving conditions. But I suppose everyone has there own definition of drivability and what they can tolerate on a day to day basis. On the 32" tires maybe he is going to use it for a mild off road toy or something similar to southern pride or good samaritain, they both have large tires on there car? Idk on that one.