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    #31
    I thought the Mark VII was a common swap for the ECM to run 19# injectors.
    What causes the poor run sequence?
    Will the computer eventually learn and stop doing this?

    I did some research and the tan ones I have are in fact 19# injectors. They used them in 2000 & 2001. They have the thin bodies like the yellow ones I have from the '95. They are X52E-A2B
    The 17# ones I have in the '90 motor are tan too but they are a bigger, thicker body.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Neal 97 250 View Post
      I thought the Mark VII was a common swap for the ECM to run 19# injectors.
      What causes the poor run sequence?
      Will the computer eventually learn and stop doing this?

      I did some research and the tan ones I have are in fact 19# injectors. They used them in 2000 & 2001. They have the thin bodies like the yellow ones I have from the '95. They are X52E-A2B
      The 17# ones I have in the '90 motor are tan too but they are a bigger, thicker body.
      HA you got me, I don't know what causes it. If I had to guess it's the programming of the ecm, a stock HO E7 heads vs the GT40P head air flow. Mark VII uses vacuum to determine fuel delivery, 20" of vacuum for a stock HO is X amount of air flowing into the engine. 20" of vacuum for a GT40P is Y amount of air. In short the Mark VII computer makes it run lean. Mass air actually measures the amount of air coming into the engine, and making a more accurate fuel delivery amount.

      No the computer will not learn this. You'd have to let it idle.

      Gadget has said that he has heard of cars run with this set up with a Mark VII ECM and no problems, others like mine and GMGT, they don't like it.

      The '90 motor should have 13# injectors (Lopos got 13# unless the '90 Towny is special which it very well may be). If the plugs are the same on the '90 injectors and your '00 injectors then you don't have to modify anything. If they are different use the ones from the limo.

      Comment


        #33
        They are different. I was thinking of using the ones from the EX enginge but as soon as I touched every one of the plugs to pull it off the injector the little lock snapped off the plug. Now, the plug will stay on with the o-ring but the clip is now gone. So I think I will use the ones from th '95. they probably just need cleaning up a tad.

        Next question... I saw a thread or something about cleaning and rebuilding these injectors but can't find it now. Anybody seen that? I am looking for guidance on how to clean the injectors.

        Also, the fuel rails are different on these two engines. Not a big deal but the old '90 rail had two connections. I assume feed and return??? The '00 had only one. Now, I can use the old lines and tie them in just fine but that leads to yet another question... Will the stock '90 fuel pump be able to keep up? It looks like the new systen is a dead head system and the old one is a return setup. Can the old pump keep up and will it be able to maintain the correct pressure?

        Another question... I will need gaskets and alot of them. Everything from upper intake to oil pickup and oil pan. The front cover and the waterpump, exhaust manifolds too and probably somemore. Did you guys just get a whole engine gasket set or just order what you need? Where did you find the best deals?

        Thanks guys,
        Do you think I need to start another thread for the engine swap and everything from here forward?

        Neal

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Neal 97 250 View Post
          Next question... I saw a thread or something about cleaning and rebuilding these injectors but can't find it now. Anybody seen that? I am looking for guidance on how to clean the injectors.

          Also, the fuel rails are different on these two engines. Not a big deal but the old '90 rail had two connections. I assume feed and return??? The '00 had only one. Now, I can use the old lines and tie them in just fine but that leads to yet another question... Will the stock '90 fuel pump be able to keep up? It looks like the new systen is a dead head system and the old one is a return setup. Can the old pump keep up and will it be able to maintain the correct pressure?

          Another question... I will need gaskets and alot of them. Everything from upper intake to oil pickup and oil pan. The front cover and the waterpump, exhaust manifolds too and probably somemore. Did you guys just get a whole engine gasket set or just order what you need? Where did you find the best deals?

          Thanks guys,
          Do you think I need to start another thread for the engine swap and everything from here forward?

          Neal
          Anybody have any input on this?
          Just looking for your guidance and experiences.

          Comment


            #35
            I tried cleaning injectors using the method on fordfuelinjection, and I couldn't tell any difference. May have been that my injectors weren't crapped up so there wasn't much change to be seen.


            Engine sets tend to come with the 4 piece cork oil pan gaskets and cork valve cover gaskets, neither of which I really like much. The last couple engines I put together we ended up buying different pan and vc gaskets to get better quality stuff. You may want to price out the engine kit, plus a one piece oil pan and the Permadry valve cover gaskets vs just buying the stuff seperate to see which is cheaper.

            yes, the 90 has a feed and a return. I wasn't aware they ever went single line on the Explorer, but the newest Explorer motor I've ever monkeyed with was a 97 or 98. I know those rails had dual lines because we used one on the 5.0 92 Grand Marquis. Yeah the 90 pump should keep up fine. If you ever replace it, it wouldn't hurt to upgrade it but it'll run an HO or Explorer motor.
            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

            Originally posted by phayzer5
            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

            Comment


              #36
              Thanks for the reminder on the cork gaskets. I found an upper kit for $71.99 and a conversin kit for the bottom end for $41.99. Sounds like a good price but maybe not if it comes with corks. I will take a look. The entire engine kit is around $280.00.

              I may clean the injectors like on Fordfuelinjection. Thanks for tha BTW I forgot where I read it. I have read so many forums on this build I get lost sometimes. BUT I always come back home to here. LOL.
              Since I am on the somewhat budget thing right now I may just try cleaning them without getting all new o-rings. I have a set that look pretty good and still pliable.

              Yes I thought it odd aabout the single line on the Explorer but I can use my old rails. And what is the upgrade on the fuel pump if I ever replace it? Is it an aftermarket or one from a newer car?

              Thanks again Gadget

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Neal 97 250 View Post
                Thanks for the reminder on the cork gaskets. I found an upper kit for $71.99 and a conversin kit for the bottom end for $41.99. Sounds like a good price but maybe not if it comes with corks. I will take a look. The entire engine kit is around $280.00.

                I may clean the injectors like on Fordfuelinjection. Thanks for tha BTW I forgot where I read it. I have read so many forums on this build I get lost sometimes. BUT I always come back home to here. LOL.
                Since I am on the somewhat budget thing right now I may just try cleaning them without getting all new o-rings. I have a set that look pretty good and still pliable.

                Yes I thought it odd aabout the single line on the Explorer but I can use my old rails. And what is the upgrade on the fuel pump if I ever replace it? Is it an aftermarket or one from a newer car?

                Thanks again Gadget
                The later explorers went to a returnless fuel injection set up, hence the one fuel line.

                Replace the o rings they are cheap insurance, I got two boxes (8 in each) for less than 20 bucks on Summit. It wasn't that bad, and it came with the o ring installers.

                Get a stock replacement pump. They are rated at 44gpm which is like 166lph, and it fits in the stock housing without modification. You shouldn't need anymore than that.

                My engine kit for my explorer engine came with cork gaskets, I requested rubber gaskets, and I got that for the oil pan, but the valve cover gaskets were cork, and didn't even fit the heads anyway.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Yup it looks like $15 will do all 8. Then again I could get a set with the screen filters for $25 plus $7 shipping from rjminjectiontech.
                  http://rjminjectiontech.com/?p=27

                  I may just go with o-rings for the insurance and take a good look at and clean the filters.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    OK so now you aint gonna believe this shit.
                    I check my e-mail just after I replied above. And I have an e-mail from Summit. They say I have Summit bucks about to expire in a month. $20.00 bucks worth.
                    Hmmm??? I go to Summit and order two sets of o-rings ($15.00) and shipping ($4.95). Total $19.95. Submit my Summit bucks and get the o-rings for free with 5 cents left over.
                    Somebody must be watching over me.
                    What are the chances we discuss getting o-rings and low and behold here comes a way for me to get them for free. Kooolll


                    Also I want to thank you guys.
                    You guys are about the only ones I have to discuss this project with that have any amount of knowledge on it. Everybody I talk to just start to glaze over once I start to bring it up. LOL.
                    So, Thanks for chatting with me and for your help keeping me on track and not forget anything.

                    Neal

                    Comment


                      #40
                      I've been having people's eyes glaze over for many many years whenever I talk about my goofy projects. I understand that feeling very well. Its also why I tend to not talk about what I have going on lol.
                      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                      Originally posted by phayzer5
                      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                      Comment


                        #41
                        better to just do and show off the results than let the crowd know sometimes.

                        Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                        rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                        Originally posted by gadget73
                        ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                        Originally posted by dmccaig
                        Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          I agree about the shut up and show off but sometimes I need reassurance form someone who knows.

                          speaking of which...
                          I have been looking at my throttle and kickdown linkage connections. This is going to take some modification for sure. But I am curious what you guys that did the Explorer swap did. The EGR delete is very simple. The Explorer has a 90* tube that points the TB forward. That is where the EGR is. I just disconnect and plug the hole for it, no prob. Now about the linkage, did you guys use the 90* elbow or delete it and set up the TB linkage like it was on the Lopo setup?

                          I am kind of partial to the 90* elbow kinda like a velocity stack. But the linkage will be challenging whether I use it or not.

                          Now if I do not use the 90* elbow and do use the Lopo model EGR plate the linkage will be simple. I can swap the linkage connections on the two TB's but the EGR plate is SUPER small compared to the new TB. The old TB was small and the new one is very large compared. This would restrict any airflow and negate the upgrade in TB's. Just looking for suggestions.
                          I am sure I will figure out a way to go about it but what did you do? Is there a simple way to go about this that I am overlooking?

                          Right now I have been just cleaning and painting everything. Hopefully this will be a very nice looking install and you guys will be proud. Block is blue. front cover will be silver or grey. water pump still undecided. Lincoln logs are silver, intakes will be painted a silver hammered paint job. hopefully I can get the A/C unit cleaned up and painted too. The alternator is my issue on paint. I hate a painted alt when someone paints it and the wire coild inside too. Looks very unprofessional. Maybe I will disassemble the alt then just paint the housing. We'll see what time allows. VC's unsure on the color yet, suggestions?

                          P.S. I know I owe you guys pics in a real bad way. I need to get the camera out of the shop and in the house so I can give you a glimpse. Sorry I am slow about that but I promise they will come soon.

                          Thanks again,
                          Neal
                          Last edited by Neal 97 250; 10-06-2010, 11:18 PM.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            toss the elbow. Take the Explorer throttle body and grind on the shaft where it goes through the lever until the "mushroom" is gone and you can pop the lever off. Do the same with your stock throttle body. Install the stock throttle body lever onto the Explorer piece and tack weld it together. Done.

                            The problem with the lopo egr plate is getting it to seal between a GT40 intake and the Explorer throttle body. There just isn't enough material there once you have it bored out to match the throttle body. Since you're not running EGR though, you may be able to fill the space between the inner bore and the outer casting with some sort of material (JB Weld?) and still get a proper seal once the stock spacer is bored out. Other options involve modding a Mustang spacer to bolt up the stock throttle bracket and having it bored out, or finding the increasingly rare and not terribly cheap 93-95 Ford Lightning part.
                            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                            Originally posted by phayzer5
                            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                            Comment


                              #44
                              I kind of planned on the grinding/tack welding thing.

                              But my biggest problem will be the bracket for the cables. One mounts to the EGR plate that I don't need and is too small and the other bracket bolts to the elbow that I guess I need to toss.

                              The area you mentioned filling with JB weld, is that the area where the coolant flows thru? Sounds like that is what you are speaking of.
                              Nevertheless, maybe I will stop by the local machine shop to see if he can make me a thick aluminum or steel piece that is about 3/4" or 1" thick for a spacer/EGR plate replacement. Then I can thread the side of it to accept the stock cable brackets. That might be pretty nice.

                              Thanks for your input,
                              Neal

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Neal 97 250 View Post
                                I am kind of partial to the 90* elbow kinda like a velocity stack.
                                A velocity stack is at the entrance of the intake tract and is flared at the end. Your 90 degree elbow is just a 90 degree elbow and has no positive effect on dynamic tuning or airflow transition.

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