ABS in a Box

[rick99601]

Ok. My mistake then haha.

lolz

[86VickyLX]

Brake Pedal Assembly Pics

5 bucks later, I walked out of a junkyard with a brake pedal assembly from a box towncar. The dash was pretty much gone, the column was down too so. I Just had to do it.
The assembly is basically the lower half of the steering column support it's actually where the column bolts to on the bottom. So when I got home, I compared the two assemblies and it looks like the brake height switch will work on the box panther brake pedal, what would need to be done, would just be swap over the height switch, and screw it in, though the placement of the screws would be important, since the switch has to slide on this side, so binding really is important. Anywho, here are some pics.
The peg where the brake booster attaches is the same size.

[86VickyLX]

Modifications Needed

Alright, so upon further inspection, there will be some modification needed for the cruise control dump valve to contact correctly. The white plastic has a flat spot on it for the dump valve to contact, however, the box one extends over more to the right, and I didn't notice it until I swapped the clips. You can see in the picture that the dump valve button won't contact the plastic. This won't be much of an issue though, all that will need to be done there would be a spacer to put the dump valve bracket more to the left.
The other thing that would need to be done to the brake pedal assembly would be just a few holes for the bottom of the switch base to attach to.
So the brake pedal assembly of my car will have to come out in order to do this. If I knew for sure that the brake pedal assembly from the box towncar is exactly the same as the box vic, then I'll prep that one, and just swap it in when the time comes.

[gadget73]

check the part number on it. Lincoln stuff tends to have 1980 part numbers where the stuff that also fits Fords usually has a 79 number.

[86VickyLX]

check the part number on it. Lincoln stuff tends to have 1980 part numbers where the stuff that also fits Fords usually has a 79 number.

Good call Thain, it's an E0 part number, so I guess it's Lincoln Specific. Oh well. At least that's good for Scott if he ever does ABS. I would think that the crown vic is similar. Maybe the vic one isn't as bulky.

[GoodSamaritan]

Interesting swap, but not really a project I would take on.
Every experience I've had with ABS has been negative.
I nearly ran off the side of a mountain road this past winter in my work tuck (06 Chebby 1 ton) because the abs refused to let me slow down enough to take a turn.
As soon as I got it stopped, and got the upholstery unclenched from between my cheeks I got out and pulled the fuse. One wheel locking up in the snow is far better than gaining speed coming down a 6% grade toward a hairpin turn (no guardrail and a huge drop off about 2 or 3' beyond the edge. ) with both feet on the brake pedal straining for dear life. Between prayer, a few feet of dry road and downshifting as far as the electronically controlled auto trans would let me I squeaked around the turn at the bottom and the road leveled out long enough to get me stopped.

I had a 95 Taurus which let me roll sedately right into the back of a stopped car with dry pavement (maybe a bit of sand). I started braking in plenty of time but the stupid pedal just started giving me a foot massage and the car kept going. I had time to downshift and stomp the parking brake, but it wasn't enough. Fortunately there wasn't any damage, so I didn't have to report it, but I've never really trusted abs since.
I'm sure there are some systems that work flawlessly, but I've never driven a car with one. It's kinda like the toyota drive by wire fiasco. I wonder how many people would have died before anyone caught on if cell phones hadn't been so prevalent. Even so, your car going to full throttle and refusing to shut off, might give you enough time to call 911. Hitting your brakes, and discovering that they don't work, leaves you a lot less time to tell anyone. I wonder how many poor people have gone to their death with both foot on the brake pedal and the abs pulsing merrily away.

I contend that a competent driver can maintain better control of their vehicle in an emergency situation than an abs system that's no longer functioning properly. The problem with abs is you generally don't know it's not working right, until you need it. By then it's too late.

When it works right, it's good stuff, but when it doesn't it's dangerous.

Am I exaggerating or overreacting? Probably, but the next vehicle I get with abs, is getting an off switch installed within easy reach of the driver.


I'll be interested to see how yours turns out, as I'm sure you'll take the time to do it properly. However the stuff on a 100k+ mile car that's never been touched by the previous owner... who knows?

[86VickyLX]

Interesting swap, but not really a project I would take on.
Every experience I've had with ABS has been negative.
I nearly ran off the side of a mountain road this past winter in my work tuck (06 Chebby 1 ton) because the abs refused to let me slow down enough to take a turn.
As soon as I got it stopped, and got the upholstery unclenched from between my cheeks I got out and pulled the fuse. One wheel locking up in the snow is far better than gaining speed coming down a 6% grade toward a hairpin turn (no guardrail and a huge drop off about 2 or 3' beyond the edge. ) with both feet on the brake pedal straining for dear life. Between prayer, a few feet of dry road and downshifting as far as the electronically controlled auto trans would let me I squeaked around the turn at the bottom and the road leveled out long enough to get me stopped.

I had a 95 Taurus which let me roll sedately right into the back of a stopped car with dry pavement (maybe a bit of sand). I started braking in plenty of time but the stupid pedal just started giving me a foot massage and the car kept going. I had time to downshift and stomp the parking brake, but it wasn't enough. Fortunately there wasn't any damage, so I didn't have to report it, but I've never really trusted abs since.
I'm sure there are some systems that work flawlessly, but I've never driven a car with one. It's kinda like the toyota drive by wire fiasco. I wonder how many people would have died before anyone caught on if cell phones hadn't been so prevalent. Even so, your car going to full throttle and refusing to shut off, might give you enough time to call 911. Hitting your brakes, and discovering that they don't work, leaves you a lot less time to tell anyone. I wonder how many poor people have gone to their death with both foot on the brake pedal and the abs pulsing merrily away.

I contend that a competent driver can maintain better control of their vehicle in an emergency situation than an abs system that's no longer functioning properly. The problem with abs is you generally don't know it's not working right, until you need it. By then it's too late.

When it works right, it's good stuff, but when it doesn't it's dangerous.

Am I exaggerating or overreacting? Probably, but the next vehicle I get with abs, is getting an off switch installed within easy reach of the driver.


I'll be interested to see how yours turns out, as I'm sure you'll take the time to do it properly. However the stuff on a 100k+ mile car that's never been touched by the previous owner... who knows?

I am quite aware of your experiences with ABS and how it sucked for you.
I will definitely check the operation of it. And make sure that it is working properly.

I'm excited to see the outcome. I hope it works.

[tjc78]

I've never had an instance of ABS hindering my stopping ability. Great project, hope it all works out and you have the first ABS converted box!

[86VickyLX]

Here's an update. I installed the warning lamp for ABS. This took the place of the low oil light. I can't take any pics of it because the only time you can see it is when the light is on, and when I try to take a picture, it just shows up as a blur of yellow.

[86VickyLX]

Well, it's been a while since I've updated this thread. I thought I'd touch on some stuff that's been accomplished. Not much mind you, but important to me at least. I like cruise control. While I was up at Skippyville, welding master Ivan made me a spacer for my cruise dump servo, which will make the servo line right up with the white plastic square (like it was meant to be from the factory... I have yet to aquire a spare brake pedal assembly from a vic or a marquis. Since Pinky is gonna be a derby car, and Val's old 89 vic was scrapped before I even got there. That's ok. It'll give me some insight on how the steering column comes out so I can swap the assemblies.

I'm also playing around with the idea of 92-97 inner fender wells. The driver side at least. So I don't have to modify anything (besides the frame slightly) to fit the hydraulic control unit on the frame rail. More later...

[Crownvicman289]

I am 1000% with Good Samaritan on this one, my ABS experiences have been identical minus the going over a cliff part. I've had many, many instances where the damn car just wouldn't stop because the ABS was "helping" me. I bypassed it on my '88 C1500, I disabled it on my current '98 K1500, I disabled it on my 97 Trueno (Japan), on my 93 Celica GT4 (Japan), and it never worked on the Crown Vic so I got rid of the pump and lines on it too. Every time I've done it I've chucked the pump, lines, everything. I really admire what you're doing, fitting all teh goodies that the older car never came with. That's cool and all, but I can tell you from experience ABS fucking blows. It might work OK on clean dry pavement but when's the last time you had trouble with wheel lock on clean, dry pavement? I strongly suggest you drive a vehicle with ABS and get it to do its thing. I avoid it like the plague!

[tjc78]

In my experience with at least 8 different vehicles with ABS I have never, not even once felt like the ABS has prevented me from stopping. The one thing you must do in a panic stop is hold the pedal to the floor and let it "do it's thing" if you attempt to pump the brakes (and the system is trying to do the same thing) you will hinder maximum stopping power.

The rule of ABS (especially in wet/icy/slushy conditions) is "stomp and steer".

I was driving home one late one night in the rain and a deer came out from the woods, I was able to slam on the brakes and swerve around him. Without ABS I would have easily been in the ditch.

[Mercracer]

ABS requires a well maintained and properly adjusted braking system especially rotors/drums and pads/shoes. If not and a single wheel locks up easily, the negative experiences mentioned will happen.

[1987cp]

Who pump what brakes why?

[mrltd]

I am 1000% with Good Samaritan on this one, my ABS experiences have been identical minus the going over a cliff part. I've had many, many instances where the damn car just wouldn't stop because the ABS was "helping" me. I bypassed it on my '88 C1500, I disabled it on my current '98 K1500, I disabled it on my 97 Trueno (Japan), on my 93 Celica GT4 (Japan), and it never worked on the Crown Vic so I got rid of the pump and lines on it too. Every time I've done it I've chucked the pump, lines, everything. I really admire what you're doing, fitting all teh goodies that the older car never came with. That's cool and all, but I can tell you from experience ABS fucking blows. It might work OK on clean dry pavement but when's the last time you had trouble with wheel lock on clean, dry pavement? I strongly suggest you drive a vehicle with ABS and get it to do its thing. I avoid it like the plague!

You must have never driven a box vic before. Front wheel lockup with a light touch. The brakes SUCK!


I've done comparisons on the stomp and steer vs. me modulating the brakes on an ABS car in snow. I could stop the car much faster.

The best setup I've ever had was my 87 mustang coupe, 2.3L base model....All manual, with a turbo coupe disc brake setup, using an SVO MC and prop valve. Stomp on the brakes and it'd throw you into the belts, and you eyeballs would hit the windshield. I put mark 7 calipers on the front and it ruined the balance. Fronts would just lock.

The wagon with the 98-02 brakes works quite well also, but needs more rear bias.