351 Cleveland swap?

[grandpaslincoln]

Me too lol

I'll do it eventually, when I pull the entire car apart. Who knows when that's going to happen though.

[flyb0t]

Are you absolutely sure its a cleveland? Because ALOT of people mistake a 351m or 400 for a cleveland... just want to make sure because the motor mounts are very different and the bell housing is different.

Certain it's a Cleveland..my dad's the one who looked at it, and he knows that sort of thing (not to demean him, but he knows what a 351m/400 looks like, he's had to work on them over the years, hates them to death :P)

The engine's been sitting, so it would need rebuilt for sure. But, if it's a simple swap in terms engine placement/what not, then that's not a huge problem then.

I'd really like to keep the CFI, but if it has to be carb, it can be done. There's no way to modify the EEC-IV in the car now?

Also, if I had to rebuild the engine, what hi-po stuff would you suggest putting into it? We're not trying to totally break the bank, but anything that would really kick it in would be cool.

I'll have to get a picture of it when I go home on break, get the number off it and check.

[ford man]

I have seen some older engines that were modified to run a cfi, but I don't know why you would want to. There is no way the stock cfi injection would meet the fuel demands of a cleveland. There is a limit to how much the injectors can flow and the parameters of the computer are limited to the power output of the stock 302.

As for the cleveland, a stock rebuild with an rv type cam, dual plane intake and 4 barrel carb would be plenty potent. The 2v heads would be preferable in a heavy car like a panther, is that what the engine has now?

[rick99601]

is it a 2v or 4v?

who knows, maybe its already built. couldve been from a totaled cougar or anything else youd put a 351C in.

[gadget73]

no way in hell would that CFI unit feed a Cleveland. You could do a CFI of sorts using an aftermarket EFI system, but definitely not with the stock stuff.

[sly]

still liking that EZ-EFI rig for if/when I ever build a serious engine.

[1987cp]

I'd really like to keep the CFI, but if it has to be carb, it can be done. There's no way to modify the EEC-IV in the car now?

Windsor guys have the option of using something called a Super Victor EFI. Big single-plane carb-style intake with injector bosses. Don't know if something similar is available for the 335-series, or if you'd have to modify a carb intake to go this route. But yeah, IIRC some guys do use this piece with EEC-IV stuff.



There's a guy in Michigan (and at least two or three good ones elsewhere) who can cut you a cam that will make your engine perform with a suitable combination of parts. Haven't heard of him doing stuff for Clevelands, but that doesn't mean he doesn't.

[Pirate]

If you're going to rebuild the Cleveland, the year of the engine isn't important.

If you're going to attempt to use it as-is....the year is very important, as the 1970-1971 engines are really the only ones worth screwing around with. Compression begins dropping in 1972 (8.5:1), and goes to 8:1 in 1973-1974.

Believe me, there is a difference.

If you're going to rebuild it....the only way to go (on a budget) is to get a set of Aussie cleveland heads, get them redone, and replace everything (most are sold bare, anyway), as the stock valves like to break in these engines whenever you begin screwing around with them.

Beyond that, it's fairly simple to do a roller cam conversion (a must), and put a set of dished hypereutectic pistons in it (if you're going with the aussie heads....flat top pistons if you use the stock American open-chamber units)....add a high-volume pump, an oil pan from a 4x4 351M/400 (and pump pickup), an 1/8th" steel bypass line from the oil pressure sending unit to the oil pressure port behind the intake....do something to get a roller rocker arm onto the heads....use a performer intake....and voila', you've got a 351C producing near 400 hp (with the Aussie heads, under 400hp with the open chamber units)....if not more....

[gadget73]

And how much does that 400 hp cost you? Not that I'm knocking the Cleveland, but it just seems that the dollars to donuts value on one is kind of bad these days once you allow for good aftermarket Windsor parts and how available they are by comparison.

[ford man]

If it were me, I would freshin up the cleveland that I already had with a basic rebuild(if it needs it) and drop it in. If your going to rebuild it you can upgrade things you have to replace anyway like cam and pistons and end up with a nice motor cheap. Around 300 hp a cleveland is not going to cost any more than a windsor.

[1987cp]

Around 300 hp a cleveland is not going to cost any more than a windsor.

Got any actual build cost and dyno numbers to back that up?

[Mercracer]

Got any actual build cost and dyno numbers to back that up?

It does not matter if you start with a 2V or a 4V head equipped Cleveland engine. It takes a healthy aftermarket Windsor head to shine a light to any Cleveland head. Like Pirate said...You can make 400HP with a Cleveland without even trying. I ran open chamber heads on premium pump gas with no issues. I didn't try pulling a trailer and I never ran any gear less than a 3.50.
Basic parts are no more expensive than those for a 351W. Edelbrock now makes a Performer RPM Air Gap for the Cleveland which can be prot matched to 2V or 4V factory heads. If you already have a Cleveland engine,

[ford man]

Got any actual build cost and dyno numbers to back that up?

uh? 300 hp cleveland? Back what up? Your talking about a cam and intake to get to 300 hp... How much does that cost?

If you rebuild a cleveland and a windsor in the same shop, why would the cleveland be more expensive? Is cleaning, boring and honing, bearings more expensive on a cleveland?

What do you mean dyno numbers?

[Mercracer]

The Boss 351 was simply a 351C 4V motor with a decent cam. The 335HP rating was under rated. In the January 2010 issue of Hot Rod, they built a motor to original Boss 351 specs including an original profile camshaft and achieved 383HP and made 391 ft lbs of torque at 4000RPM. That is knocking on the door of 400HP and the build is pretty cheap to do if you already have a 351C 4V motor.

[1987cp]

It does not matter if you start with a 2V or a 4V head equipped Cleveland engine. It takes a healthy aftermarket Windsor head to shine a light to any Cleveland head. Like Pirate said...You can make 400HP with a Cleveland without even trying. I ran open chamber heads on premium pump gas with no issues. I didn't try pulling a trailer and I never ran any gear less than a 3.50.
Basic parts are no more expensive than those for a 351W. Edelbrock now makes a Performer RPM Air Gap for the Cleveland which can be prot matched to 2V or 4V factory heads. If you already have a Cleveland engine,

Sorry, I haven't read any Cleveland buildup articles, and wasn't aware that anyone was doing any recently. Easy to find Windsor builds to read about, though.