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    more horsepower!?

    okay, so i know there is a box "performance" forum, but i thought i'd start here w/ my wagon brethren, as i'm in very early planning stages.

    reminder: i'm new here and new to the car ('85 colony park LS). this site is fantastic, and i've spent a fair bit of time just reading dozens and dozens of threads... still, sometimes that can lead to more questions than answers, but i'll take whatever advice i can get, as there are obviously really knowledgeable folks here.

    long story short: i'm looking to get some more "pep" (wink) from this motor... not planning any drag races or 100mph runs down the highway (this is, after all, a station wagon), but rather just being able to surprise the guy next to me in his late-model foreign coupe when i step on the gas to make a lane change.

    my 302 only has 84K miles and seems to run well for what it is... but alas, it has CFI, EGR, and other obligatory smog components which i know are holding it back from its true potential.

    so a few questions for the wise:

    1) should i go old-skool carb setup or modern EFI upgrade? (i'm leaning towards the former, just because i get reminiscent about my first car-- '65 'stang w/ 289 hipo; but, on the other hand i live in CO and this car will definitely see some mountain driving at altitude where fuel injection comes in handy).

    2) how does either of the above effect emissions testing... when i go to renew (every 2 years in CO), what happens when there is a non-stock motor?

    as i mentioned, i've done some reading here, but i see a lot of different stuff thrown around: explorer motors, mustang parts, GT40 heads, turbo, P heads, etc, etc.

    i'm thinking my low(ish) mileage 302 would be a good starting point (not looking to swap in a big block)-- maybe bore it out and throw in a cam. manifold/carb on top. headers/exhaust. i'm enough of a newb that i'm not sure what that would mean for ECM/wiring in this car (or what it would cost).

    ...which brings us to one last (important) detail: i guess i'd like to keep this under $1000 (is that realistic?). i paid less than that for the entire car, so if i can end up w/ a wagon that will chirp the tires and get people's attention when i stomp the go pedal for about $2000 total (not counting some other minor fixes that will be necessary), i'll be happy.

    discuss.
    Last edited by sinistral; 01-21-2011, 02:16 AM.

    #2
    You can do a H.O. Swap for under $1000 it's 65 more hp than your current motor. But will also require a full mpfi swap for the full benifet. Lots and lots of options here.


    '90 LX 5.0 mustang
    Big plans

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      #3
      Originally posted by 1980c10 View Post
      You can do a H.O. Swap for under $1000 it's 65 more hp than your current motor. But will also require a full mpfi swap for the full benifet. Lots and lots of options here.
      mpfi? (multipoint fuel injection? same as sequential?)

      i should also point out i plan to keep the AOD (shift kit perhaps?).
      Last edited by sinistral; 01-21-2011, 02:29 AM.

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        #4
        btw, bonus points for examples/testimonials from current wagon owners. :banana:

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          #5
          The stock cfi injection won't support much more than 20 more horsepower and it sounds like your goal is more ambitious...

          At least in CA you can't run a carb on a car that came with fuel injection from the factory. Your engine has to be stock unless you add parts that are "carb" approved.

          The '85 Mustang Gt was still running a carbuerator in '85 but still with lots of emission equipment so replicating that setup would be a long shot... I suppose you could setup a carbuerator to pass a '85 sniffer test but the visual would be up to the smog techs discression, but technically not legal.

          I think your on track with the sefi fuelie conversion because it would support your power wants, pass emissions and the smog station wouldn't know the difference.

          You probably need at least 250 horsepower and a gnarly b&m shift kit if you want to chirp

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            #6
            Originally posted by ford man View Post

            You probably need at least 250 horsepower and a gnarly b&m shift kit if you want to chirp

            really? I could do it with 3.08 gears a stock lopo and a shift kit. It would burn second nicely and chirp third.

            You could get an intake, carb, and a set of stock heads (e7, gt40, gt40p), and the required extra parts for the conversion for a grand or under. Even cheaper if you get a used carb and intake.

            Speaking of gears, there are a lot of other things that should be done if you want more hp. exhaust, gears, suspension, brakes....granted those should be done irregardless
            Builder/Owner of Badass Panther Wagons

            Busy maintaining a fleet of Fords

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              #7
              speaking of gears, i've seen that one guy here who has a list in his sig... is that code found from the VIN or from the tag on the diff cover? i'm kinda curious what i've got in this one...

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                #8
                mrltd, what's the story w/ that wagon in your avatar?

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                  #9
                  That is his wagon dude. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/user/FamilyTruckster
                  ~David~

                  My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
                  My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

                  Originally posted by ootdega
                  My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

                  Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
                  But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

                  Originally posted by gadget73
                  my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




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                    #10
                    Originally posted by 87gtVIC View Post
                    That is his wagon dude. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/user/FamilyTruckster
                    "i'll have what he's having..."

                    what's the build on that thing? more info?

                    ford man, you are correct-- just called emissions tech and looks like no carb for me. so that helps narrow it down for me i s'pose.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You have emissions testing in Colorado? That stinks.


                      Place to read about smallblock tech: www.sbftech.com They know lots of options that cost a lot, but I feel it's good to know what can be done, and use that to make more informed decisions even when buying cheap stuff (i.e. 300+hp with factory heads can be done but will involve some sacrifices).

                      One guy documented a build on a 347W that dynoed at 694hp NA (naturally aspirated) - that's 2 hp/ci without any form of supercharging - using mostly off-the-shelf aftermarket parts. Of course, he also likes to remind people that dyno numbers don't mean squat when you're headed down the track, and there are other costs that go into making a quick vehicle, such as converter (can easily exceed $500), valvebody (I've got my eye on one that costs $300), gears, etc. Another guy has a much cheaper combo that dynoed at a more modest 350 rwhp, but he also claims to get as much as 28 mpg! I've since been incredibly ashamed to be getting half that while making probably less than 250hp at the crank.

                      Mike's wagon has a stock Explorer motor with a cam swap, 3.73s, and (IIRC) 2600 stall converter, and he does what he does with a reported race weight nearing 4500 pounds.


                      Based on what I've read, carb or EFI really doesn't matter when it comes to making power (or measured emissions levels, for that matter, but of course the smog nazis can be all stupid about what exact equipment they do and don't want to see). Cam and tuning seem to be key to both power and efficiency (and emissions levels). Aftermarket EFI stuff is expensive, but so is good carb stuff.


                      All that said, coming from a 150hp snoozer of an engine, lots of Panther fans are more than happy with a stone-stock HO or Explorer swap.
                      Last edited by 1987cp; 01-21-2011, 03:33 PM.
                      2012 Mazda5 Touring | Finally working on the LTD again!

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                        #12
                        For info look in the readers rides and the suspension forum... it's pretty well documented.
                        Builder/Owner of Badass Panther Wagons

                        Busy maintaining a fleet of Fords

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                          #13
                          Yea mpfi is sequential. Must have had Honda on the brain. Since mpfi is what honda calls their sequential injection.

                          I would go for an explorer 5.0 or a H.O. From a mustang. The expo motor makes more power, but just snatch up whatever one is cheaper.


                          '90 LX 5.0 mustang
                          Big plans

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                            #14
                            efi ho conversion, some better heads, headers and free flowing exhaust.........i picked up almost 100 rwhp on my town car from stock

                            1986 lincoln towncar signature series. 5.0 HO with thumper performance ported e7 heads, 1.7 roller rockers, warm air intake, 65mm throttle body, 1/2" intake spacer, ported intakes, 3.73 rear with trac lock, 98-02 front brake conversion, 92-97 rear disc conversion, 1" rear swaybar, 1 3/16" front swaybar, 16" wheels and tires, loud ass stereo system, badass cb, best time to date 15.94 at 87 mph. lots of mods in the works 221.8 rwhp 278 rwt
                            2006 Lincoln Town Car Signature. Stock for now
                            1989 Ford F-250 4x4 much much more to come, sefi converted so far.
                            1986 Toyota pickup with LSC wheels and 225/60/16 tires.
                            2008 Hyundai Elantra future Revcon toad
                            1987 TriBurner and 1986 Alaska stokers keeping me warm. (and some pesky oil heat)

                            please be patient, rebuilding an empire!

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                              #15
                              The question I always ask people contemplating a carb vs EFI swap is which are you more comfortable with? Basically its a choice of wiring, or knowing how to tune a carb and a distributor. I can't tune a carb any more than I can tune a fish, but wiring is simple to me.



                              mpfi is also a GM term. Technically it doesn't have to be sequential either. Ford trucks have multiport injection that is not sequential, its batch fire. The Ford 5.0 car engines do happen to be sequential injection though, meaning the injectors fire in sequence with the ignition firing order. Batch fire usually means 4 injectors fire at a time with no particular relation to ignition timing.
                              86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                              5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                              91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                              1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                              Originally posted by phayzer5
                              I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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