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    #1

    2003 or not 2003???

    My current strategy has been to stick to 2002 and older due to interchange of parts. I am now finding more and more 2003+ cars for reasonable $$. I am not concerned about axles and rims. Are there any other reasons to not go 2003+ vs sticking with 2002 and older? Are there any advantages which make a 2003 more desirable? I am looking at a few project cars and trying to decide what generation to go with. I like the idea of a 200amp alternator in the 2004 but I am not excited about drive by wire in the 2005. I am not really concerned about the extra 15HP of a MAF and air box.
    Is there more exhaust header room in a 2003+ car for a 460, etc because of the rack??
    Tags: None
    #2
    The suspension and frame were completely redesigned for 2003.

    2003 Mercury Marauder 300A - Black on Black, Original Owner 70xxx miles. 1 of 470 Canadian Marauder built!
    Mods: Martyo Fender badges, JLT CAI, SS Inserts
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      #3
      Originally posted by Peter View Post
      The suspension and frame were completely redesigned for 2003.
      Thanks, but that does not help nor address any of my questions.... I am already aware that the axle width changed, the front got an aluminum sub frame with a rack, etc... I am asking for reasons to go to the 2003+ generation or stay with the 2002 generation. Answers like "It handles better" are not what I am looking for either. The bone yards are full of 1998-2002 cars right now. Not so much 2003 and newer. Other than handling I am wondering what the advantage or disadvantages are in going to the rack style front end, etc... I have no complaints how my 2002 handles and I am not going to do any autocross. Any intended performance mods are either for trailer towing or drag racing.

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        #4
        personally I don't care for the way the rack and pinion feels. It may handle or ride better, but the steering wheel feel sucks IMO. Its kind of vague feeling with no obvious center point, and it seems to turn a wider circle than the old box and drag link arrangement of the 02-. Don't know about extra room. There may be, but the steering linkage is rather long and somewhat convoluted with the various joints and whatnot to get it down to the rack. It may work out to be no advantage for headers and such.
        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

        Originally posted by phayzer5
        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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          #5
          There IS more room for headers. The cross-member is much smaller. Plus, the outside-the-frame shocks on the rear help handling as well.

          Personally, I am nuts about 03+ panthers. They rock. I have an 04 CVPI front suspension I am waiting to put in my 79 F100, along with a 4.6 DOHC...
          1983 Grand Marquis 2Dr Sedan "Mercules"
          Tremec TKO conversion, hydraulic clutch, HURST equipped!

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            #6
            Originally posted by Grand_Marquis_GT View Post
            There IS more room for headers. The cross-member is much smaller. Plus, the outside-the-frame shocks on the rear help handling as well.

            Personally, I am nuts about 03+ panthers. They rock. I have an 04 CVPI front suspension I am waiting to put in my 79 F100, along with a 4.6 DOHC...
            What is the difference in width? Are you welding the aluminum sub frame in place of the F100 front frame?

            Comment

              #7
              There is more room between the frame dog legs in the front, but I am not sure how much.

              When I had the engine and transmission out of my car ('87), I noticed that there is alot of room there on the older cars as well. The column shift linkage (which could presumably be replaced with a cable from a later car) is really all that gets in the way of long tubes on the driver's side.

              I am just the opposite of Thain when it comes to R&P vs box and link. I have been driving my '90 car, and my Dad's '99 P71 a little lately, and the steering is very floaty, centerless, and loose, compared to my '04 Dodge Ram. I have found myself actually drifting, just because I am not used to the feel. Both of those cars have maintained steering systems, so I doubt that is the issue.

              I would go for R&P over the old style any day. The extra room up front, and handling amenities pretty much make it a no brainer.
              **2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302: 5.0/ 6 spd/ 3.73s, 20K Cruiser
              **2006 MGM,"Ultimate": 4.6/ 2.73/ Dark Tint, Magnaflows, 19s, 115K Daily Driver
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              **1976 Ford F-150 4WD: 360, 4 spd, 3.50s, factory A/C, 4" lift, Bilsteins, US Indy Mags, 35s Truck Duties

              Comment

                #8
                my 88 and 93 have a mildly defined center... but the track on my 88 doesn't follow that center due to the shot bushings (go figure). the 88 is tons easier to turn though. The 93 requires a little muscle (no finger steering) and gives an ever so slight bit of feedback while the 88 has absolutely NO feedback. The 82 Mark is just as vague as the 88 but with worse tires and will understeer like no tomorrow if you have your foot in it due to the traclok. I have yet to drive a car with a rack... though the 06 supercrew I had gave pretty good feel with it's rack. (I could power slide that truck... scared the crap out of some coworkers who were giving me crap about turning to fast... I think they just weren't used to large vehicles since they all drive small or tiny ones.)

                Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                Originally posted by gadget73
                ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                Originally posted by dmccaig
                Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                Comment

                  #9
                  I like the feel of the 03+. IMO it is superior to the older ones. Even my 80 year grandfather noticed a difference going from his 98 TC to his 04 GM.
                  2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum (Ice White / Blonde)
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                  Past Panthers
                  1989 Grand Marquis LS (Cabernet/Grey), 1989 Lincoln Town Car SS (White/Blue), 2004 Mercury Grand Marquis Ultimate (White/Black)

                  Originally posted by Lincolnmania
                  if its got tits or tires it's bound to give you trouble

                  Comment

                    #10
                    I swear I'm the only person that hates rack and pinion steering.
                    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                    Originally posted by phayzer5
                    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                      I swear I'm the only person that hates rack and pinion steering.
                      you're not the only one. I prefer the older stuff... it works so effortlessly. I actually like the non-feel and easy spin of the steering on my 88.

                      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                      rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                      Originally posted by gadget73
                      ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                      Originally posted by dmccaig
                      Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        If my 03 was black I'd call it 'Black Betty' - because it's so rock steady. I was driving over a big bridge last week at 73 in wind and could've knee driven it.

                        Effects the ride in some ways though. I've heard old timers complain that it seems a bit firm. I prefer the straight line ride of my 85. R&P, no play whatsoever, but it strikes me as a bit twitchy sometimes. I don't know when they changed the 4 spoke steering wheel (my old 97 still had it) but I miss sticking a couple of my left fingers though the spokes OTR driving while on the 2 spoke you kinda have to hold on (I know, boohoohoo. But it matters).

                        I wish I had my 97 for a head to head, but I remember enough to know that the 03 is radically different.

                        Pete
                        Originally posted by gadget73
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                        2003 Grand Marquis Ultimate, the "Stealth Bomber": http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...-Grand-Marquis
                        1991 S-10, 'Bulldog', 2.5l 5 speed: http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...375#post698375
                        1985 Town Car, 'Faded Glory', gone but not forgotten. 84/87/91/97 MGMs too.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Mercracer View Post
                          What is the difference in width? Are you welding the aluminum sub frame in place of the F100 front frame?
                          I found the answer regarding how you attach it... I had no clue... http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/71...o-67-f100.html

                          Comment

                            #14
                            i dont like the rack and peanut on the panther either

                            1986 lincoln towncar signature series. 5.0 HO with thumper performance ported e7 heads, 1.7 roller rockers, warm air intake, 65mm throttle body, 1/2" intake spacer, ported intakes, 3.73 rear with trac lock, 98-02 front brake conversion, 92-97 rear disc conversion, 1" rear swaybar, 1 3/16" front swaybar, 16" wheels and tires, loud ass stereo system, badass cb, best time to date 15.94 at 87 mph. lots of mods in the works 221.8 rwhp 278 rwt
                            2006 Lincoln Town Car Signature. Stock for now
                            1989 Ford F-250 4x4 much much more to come, sefi converted so far.
                            1986 Toyota pickup with LSC wheels and 225/60/16 tires.
                            2008 Hyundai Elantra future Revcon toad
                            1987 TriBurner and 1986 Alaska stokers keeping me warm. (and some pesky oil heat)

                            please be patient, rebuilding an empire!

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Mercracer View Post
                              I found the answer regarding how you attach it... I had no clue... http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/71...o-67-f100.html
                              Oh yeah, sorry I forgot to post that.
                              1983 Grand Marquis 2Dr Sedan "Mercules"
                              Tremec TKO conversion, hydraulic clutch, HURST equipped!

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