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    #31
    its connected to the S terminal through a diode, so when you power the relay, it also powers the I terminal. The diode is there so you don't back-feed the thing and keep the starter relay pulled.

    On Duraspark cars, its there to bypass the resistor wire or ballast resistor. Stuff in the 80s may have been wired in different ways but thats what you'll see on 70s stuff.
    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Originally posted by phayzer5
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
      its connected to the S terminal through a diode, so when you power the relay, it also powers the I terminal. The diode is there so you don't back-feed the thing and keep the starter relay pulled.
      Oh. Interesting. Clever setup, I suppose, for vehicles using the resistor thingy.
      2012 Mazda5 Touring | Finally working on the LTD again!

      Comment


        #33
        Interesting weekend.

        Tested every wire and connector in sight, that I could. Zero, zilch nada, until a took a 8 millionth look at the drawings and noticed the coil ground that runs through a 'radio noise filter' or something like that, a wire comes off the drivers side coil plug, runs down to a little can screwed right to the coil mounting bracket. I had already tested it with a continuity tester but decided to jump it just to see.

        Fired right up (after sitting for weeks!). I'm so happy. So I killed the engine and hard wire jumped the filter. Who cares about a radio noise suppressor?

        WRONG. Not only didn't it start, it also blew the fusible links on the LH fender well harness (as I noticed by a fair amount of smoke). If I had a functional brain I would've realized I was attaching a hot wire directly to ground!

        So I replace the links and head to the JY. On the way I pass a parts store and think what the hey. They didn't have anything under 85 TC or Crown Vics but the guy said he thought it sounded like a part that used to be used on point systems, that kept the points from frying out. Sure enough the 'Ignition condenser' from a 1968 Ford Custom 302 was identical. $3.50.

        Popped it in, fired right up. Hooray! Turned it off and restarted a few times, let it run for a bit, but very low on gas so I took it to the gas station and back, the long way, around 8-10 miles round trip, needs timed but otherwise fine.

        Clean up, neighbor comes over, he says let's time it. Wouldn't start!

        What it did before I changed the ignition condensor:

        1) Fuel pump relay is getting main power in and trigger power in, but nothing out. If I used the test light from the trigger power out to the battery it comes on.

        2) Coil was getting power on both leads in both run and start, but not firing.

        Now, 1) is doing the same thing, but on 2) the coil only gets power in run, but not start. I have already swapped a module just to see, no change.

        So I have come to the end of my rope. I have no idea what to do next. I've got an appointment to take it in 8/22 but am still open to suggestions.

        Pete
        Originally posted by gadget73
        For other types of inquiry, more information is required. Please press 4 to speak to a representative who can help you with your question. This call may be monitored for quality assurance purposes.


        2003 Grand Marquis Ultimate, the "Stealth Bomber": http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...-Grand-Marquis
        1991 S-10, 'Bulldog', 2.5l 5 speed: http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...375#post698375
        1985 Town Car, 'Faded Glory', gone but not forgotten. 84/87/91/97 MGMs too.

        Comment


          #34
          Btw, is the one wire connector coming off the ignition module plug the spout connector? Is it just a plug?

          Pete
          Originally posted by gadget73
          For other types of inquiry, more information is required. Please press 4 to speak to a representative who can help you with your question. This call may be monitored for quality assurance purposes.


          2003 Grand Marquis Ultimate, the "Stealth Bomber": http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...-Grand-Marquis
          1991 S-10, 'Bulldog', 2.5l 5 speed: http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...375#post698375
          1985 Town Car, 'Faded Glory', gone but not forgotten. 84/87/91/97 MGMs too.

          Comment


            #35
            The radio suppressor is on the power side...

            Put the key in run, jump the solenoid and start the car that way. It should start. Does the fuel pump come on when key is switched on?
            Last edited by 86VickyLX; 08-08-2011, 01:53 PM.

            Comment


              #36
              No, the fuel pump relay does not come on. There is main power to it, and trigger power to it, but it doesn't have any trigger ground unless I ground it with test light. When I do that, the fuel pump comes on.

              Pete
              Originally posted by gadget73
              For other types of inquiry, more information is required. Please press 4 to speak to a representative who can help you with your question. This call may be monitored for quality assurance purposes.


              2003 Grand Marquis Ultimate, the "Stealth Bomber": http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...-Grand-Marquis
              1991 S-10, 'Bulldog', 2.5l 5 speed: http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...375#post698375
              1985 Town Car, 'Faded Glory', gone but not forgotten. 84/87/91/97 MGMs too.

              Comment


                #37
                So ... you have a bad ground to the fuel pump relay?
                2012 Mazda5 Touring | Finally working on the LTD again!

                Comment


                  #38
                  You would think. However if you look at the schematics in my original post, the fuel pump relay trigger circuit starts and ends at the EEC. Somewhere along the line I've got an open circuit. All grounds appear intact, and what I could I checked for continuity.

                  Elsewhere a gentleman rec'd I pull the plug on the EEC and check it's ground for continuity. I really didn't want to go that far, but heck... Does the plug pull off from the engine compartment, or do I pull the computer out from under the dash?

                  Hey, since pinout 20 from the 'puter is the case ground, is there any reason I just can't try grounding the case?? Heck I'm gonna try it. See what I can smoke this time

                  Pete
                  Originally posted by gadget73
                  For other types of inquiry, more information is required. Please press 4 to speak to a representative who can help you with your question. This call may be monitored for quality assurance purposes.


                  2003 Grand Marquis Ultimate, the "Stealth Bomber": http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...-Grand-Marquis
                  1991 S-10, 'Bulldog', 2.5l 5 speed: http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...375#post698375
                  1985 Town Car, 'Faded Glory', gone but not forgotten. 84/87/91/97 MGMs too.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Btw, I found the pinout here:

                    http://www.auto-diagnostics.info/ford_eec_iv

                    Saved and attached for future reference....

                    EEC-IV Wiring Information

                    Pin No Wire Colour Purpose Voltage
                    1 Not Used
                    2 Not used
                    3 Not Used
                    4 Not Used
                    5 Not Used
                    6 Not Used
                    7 Engine Coolant Temp 20*C-3.1V, 40*C-2.2V, 100*C-0.5V
                    8 Not Used
                    9 Not Used
                    10 Airconditioning Clutch On 0V Aircon Off, 12V Aircon On
                    11 Not Used
                    12 Not Used
                    13 Not Used
                    14 Not Used
                    15 Not Used
                    16 Ground 0V
                    17 Self Test Output (STO) PWM signal 0V-12V
                    18 Not Used
                    19 Not Used
                    20 Case Ground 0V
                    21 Idle Speed Control +8V to +11V Engine Running
                    22 Fuel Pump Control +12V Ignition On
                    23 Knock Sensor (Unleaded Only) +3V Engine Running
                    24 Not Used
                    25 Intake Air Temperature Sensor 0*C 3.9V, 20*C 3,1V, 40*C 2.2V
                    26 Sensor Reference Voltage +5V
                    27 Air Flow Sensor (Unleaded Only) Variable Voltage
                    28 Not Used
                    29 Not Used
                    30 Transmission Position Neutral 0V-0.1V, In gear 5Volts
                    31 Canister Purge 8V-10V with Engine Running
                    32 Not Used
                    33 EGR Solenoid (Unleaded) Voltage Pulse @ 1800 RPM
                    34 Data Output Link PWM Data
                    35 Canister Purge Solenoid (Unleaded) Voltage Pulse when Engine Running
                    35 EGR Vent Solenoid (leaded) Voltage Pulse when Engine Running @ 1800RPM
                    36 SPOUT (Spark Output) Ignition 7V average with Engine Running
                    37 Ignition Power 12V with Ignition On
                    38 Not Used
                    39 Not Used
                    40 Ground 0Volts
                    41 Not Used
                    42 Not Used
                    43 Air Flow Sensor (Leaded Only) Variable Voltage
                    44 Not Used
                    45 Not Used
                    46 Signal Ground 0Volts
                    47 Throttle Position Sensor 0.7V closed, 4.5V WOT (Wide Open)
                    48 Self Test Input 0Volts for Self Test, 12V Normal operation
                    49 Not Used
                    50 Not Used
                    51 Not Used
                    52 EGR Vent Solenoid (Unleaded) Voltage Pulse @ 1800 RPM
                    53 Not Used
                    54 EGR Vent Solenoid (leaded) Voltage Pulse @ 1800 RPM
                    55 Not Used
                    56 PIP Profile Ignition Pick Up 0V - 12V on Ignition PIP
                    57 Ignition Power 0Volts Off, 12V Ignition On
                    58 Fuel Injection Ignition Bank 1,3,5 PWM On Fuel Injection
                    59 Fuel Injection Ignition Bank 2,4,6 0Volts Off, 12V On
                    60 Ground 0Volts

                    Click image for larger version

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                    Originally posted by gadget73
                    For other types of inquiry, more information is required. Please press 4 to speak to a representative who can help you with your question. This call may be monitored for quality assurance purposes.


                    2003 Grand Marquis Ultimate, the "Stealth Bomber": http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...-Grand-Marquis
                    1991 S-10, 'Bulldog', 2.5l 5 speed: http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...375#post698375
                    1985 Town Car, 'Faded Glory', gone but not forgotten. 84/87/91/97 MGMs too.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Yep, you just need a 10mm socket IIRC.
                      2012 Mazda5 Touring | Finally working on the LTD again!

                      Comment


                        #41
                        well, if you're getting the fuel pump relay to pull in, and you have power in but not power out, that sounds a lot like the relay being dead to me.
                        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                        Originally posted by phayzer5
                        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                        Comment


                          #42
                          have you wiggled all the wiring while the key is on? sometimes you're wiring is good but the connections are bad..

                          listen for the fuel pump to energize.
                          Give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will promptly forget that he once did not know, and proceed to call anyone who asks, a n00b and flame them on the boards for being stupid.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by cld783 View Post
                            have you wiggled all the wiring while the key is on? sometimes you're wiring is good but the connections are bad..

                            Always worth considering - this is what was going on with our Cavalier last summer. Tweaking the connetors so they made better contact and whittling a makeshift bulkhead-connector grommet fixed the no-fuel-pumpey problem.
                            2012 Mazda5 Touring | Finally working on the LTD again!

                            Comment


                              #44
                              relay or wiring issue. Either way, sounds like SEFI conversion time

                              Comment


                                #45
                                IIRC, the relays in these cars have +12v with the key on and the EEC grounds the other side of it to turn it on.
                                Owner of the only known 5 speed box wagon with a lift kit.
                                AKA, Herkimer the Hillbilly SUV.



                                Axle codes
                                Open/Lock/Ratio #
                                -----------------------
                                G / H / 2.26
                                B / C / 2.47
                                8 / M / 2.73
                                7 / - / 3.07
                                Y / Z / 3.08
                                4 / D / 3.42
                                F / R / 3.45
                                5 / E / 3.27
                                6 / W / 3.73
                                2 / K / 3.55
                                A / - / 3.63
                                J / - / 3.85

                                Comment

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