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Greetings Everyone! I need your wisdom- save me from myself...

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    Greetings Everyone! I need your wisdom- save me from myself...

    Hi everybody,

    I am very happy to have found this site, and I have queries.

    I am the very proud owner of a 1982 Lincon Mark VI, 302 AOD, with about 144k on it.

    It was purchased new by my Grandfather, and I am very happy to have it. It is in very good original shape. Not flawless, but damn close.

    Here is my problem-

    the original engine bit it and I was forced to find a replacement. Given the original engine's output of around 140hp, I took this as an opportunity to get it to the 180-220 hp range I feel it should have always had.

    Found a 95 302 HO in good shape, from an automatic Mustang, for 200 bucks. Jumped all over that.

    I am mechanical to some degree, and prefer to work on my own cars, but this is way beyond anything I have ever attempted, so I enlisted the services of a friend/mechanic/mechanical engineer to do the swap for me. He managed to get rid of all the extraneous smog shit, and get the new motor in.

    Here is the issue- for ease/ intention of keeping it as original as possible, he retained as many of the old staock parts as seemed plausible. The Mustang engine has been carbed, so he removed that intake, and used the original tbi, exhaust manifolds and all sensors.

    It runs. Not well. It starts easily, and if youstand on the gas it will build revs, but after 15-30 seconds, they begin to fall very steadily until the engine dies. If you pump the gas continuously, you can keep from having to restart, but there is still no power to speak of. I tried driving it a short distance as is, and was able to do so, but with almost constant shifts in/out of nuetral to keep the engine running.

    I think it is running rich. I don't know how that's possible with computer controlled tbi, but as I said- I'm no expert. Thought it might be too much back pressure as it is single pipe, and it comes out like a leaf blower.
    Cut off exhaust at cat to see if that cured it, no luck. it did improve a bit.

    I am trying to figure out how to get this thing running right, and I and my guys are at wit's end. Please, please- any suggestions would be most welcome.

    Short notes:

    As mentioned, it is not setup as SEFI even though that was the original for the motor. It is not carbed, thought that is an option but I would prefer to keep the fuel injection intact.

    Still single exhaust.

    Runs, but smells rich and bogs down very quickly.

    Ok- I hope I get some hits.

    thanks guys!

    Bob

    #2
    sounds like an issue with the CFI system. i would be looking at that, solong the engine has good compression, timing is set right and you are using the HO firing order. the firing order is different from the regular 302. there are a few guys here, who have and had issues with CFI. im sure they can give advice. also, we need pics of your lincoln!

    1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham 2-Door 302/ 5-speed -special blend (GMGT)
    1987 Lincoln Mark VII 5-speed (Errand runner)
    1989 Mercury Grand Marquis (Base Runner)
    2007 Lincoln Town Car Signature Limited (Hustlyn)
    2011 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor (Down with O.P.P)

    Comment


      #3
      I've read about guys successfully transplanting EFI HO 302 motors with cfi. Except they were LTD LX's... that makes a difference because LX's were originally HO cfi. The HO cfi has the same firing order as the HO EFI and a COMPUTER that is compatible with the HO cam and firing order. HO cfi also has bigger injectors 52ph compared to 46ph.

      The best chance you have to retain your cfi is to get a ho cfi computer...

      BUT, now that I think about you said that was an '82... that's EEC3! I don't think you have any chance of making it work! You should just go CARB. A 4 barrel carb will make more power then cfi ever could anyhow.

      It makes sense it's running the way it is because your original engine and the HO engine have different firing orders and your original computer can't run it properly. Your EEC3 controls can't compensate for the increased airflow of the HO engine either. If it was a '84 or '85 cfi you would have a chance in keeping it cfi but since it's a '82 EEC3 you should wipe the slate clean and go CARB.

      Comment


        #4
        like the others have mentioned, I think your issue is with the "CFI" fuel injection system. You're probably better off going to a carbureted system, or newer Mustang or Panther Chassis (Grand Marq, Crown Vic, Town Car) EFI system. CFI systems have ZERO aftermarket support and tuneability, and were not built to work on the exact engine your car now has.


        Anyways, Welcome! I hope you get things sorted out, as it sounds like a nice car with a nice story behind it.

        85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
        160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
        waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

        06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

        Comment


          #5
          couple things. The Mustang motor has a different firing order than the original, so make sure what you are using is correct for the motor. 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 is what the 95 engine needs. The original would have been 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8.

          The 82 distributor has the wrong kind of gear on it. The cam in the 95 motor will shred it, and put the metal into the oil pan. This is obviously undesirable. You will need the gear from a 1985 Mustang 5 speed distributor to put on the stock distributor. Can't swap the whole thing because the EEC3 dizzy is funky and specific to EEC3. No EEC3 car ever had a steel roller cam, so there is no application that just works for the parts you need.

          The CFI is EEC III CFI, which is a beast unto itself. It has nearly zero ability to self-tune or compensate for serious engine changes. It should not run rich, it should actually run very lean. It ought to start and idle OK, but at throttle I'd expect it to perform badly. It probably ought to run OK enough to drive around the yard, but I'd expect it to fall on it's face if you tried to really go down the road. Make sure all of the vacuum lines are connected and in good shape, particularly the one over to the B/MAP sensor on the passenger side fender near the battery.


          My 2 cents for fixing this is either set it up as a SEFI system from an 86+ car, or go with a carb. I don't really like carbs, so I only mention it because it can be done. I feel it to be a messy solution though unless done very nicely, which generally involves a fair bit of time and money. No offense to most, but I've seen very few carb swaps that I'd consider to be professional looking, and such things don't befit a Lincoln, especially not one in nice shape. There really isn't anything particular to the motor that it needs to be set up with SEFI. Bsically its just an intake manifold and some wiring. The internals of the motor could care less whether its fed from a carb, a throttle body, or a small hampster that controls a gas drip down the hole. As long as its getting fuel, air, and spark in the right amounts, it'll run. The EFI is more plug and play than you might believe. The whole wiring harness is self-contained, so once its physically in place and plugged in, there are only a couple of connections to the rest of the harness. Basically a key-on signal, an output to the fuel pump, and input from the starter circuit wiring.
          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

          Originally posted by phayzer5
          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

          Comment


            #6
            first glance

            Here is a few pics of the car sorry about the quality they are from a cell phone.
            Attached Files

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you!

              Thanks everybody- I am surprised I got so much feedback so quickly.

              I did forget to mention in my last post that I already know about the firing order, and just discovered the distributor gear. I also switched the cap and rotor to the more common/modern design.

              I am grateful to know the current EEC3 will not work, that saves me a lot of hassle figuring it out the hard way. My support guys are pushing
              me to go carb- in an ideal world I would like to keep it fuel injected if thats possible, as I feel it is one of the cool "high tech" Mark features for the year.

              To the guy with the Galactica town car, I am curious about more detail. I have seen your car on a couple of forums and am intrigued, looks pretty bad ass. What exactly do I need, and how hard is this to do? My skill level is not super high, but I have smart people helping me. Local pick and pull usually has a decent supply of newer (85-90) panthers, so I might be able to find stuff there. can somebody give me a detailed parts list, and what cars might have them? CFI, etc

              Thanks!

              Bob

              Will post better pictures once it is running right, and she can have a bath

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks for the photos! LOVE the log holding up the hood - weak hinges or just being REALLY careful? In any event, best of luck with it. Love to see folks keeping the older cars going....


                "Hope and dignity are two things NO ONE can take away from you - you have to relinquish them on your own" Miamibob

                "NEVER trade your passion for glory"!! Sal "the Bard" (Dear Old Dad!)

                "Cars are for driving - PERIOD! I DON'T TEXT, TWEET OR TWERK!!!!"

                Comment


                  #9
                  nice car! and that hood prop log is epic! lol. if it were me, i would go EFI. since the car is pretty much set up for it. lot of guys go carb, since the 2bbl, bolts in place of the CFI unit. but, you have to hack up a fuel pump. or change the timing cover, to accept a manual pump. with EFI, its a matter of changing the intake and adding all the electronics/harness. also, you can run the proper TV cable, instead of trying to adapt the rod to the carb.

                  1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham 2-Door 302/ 5-speed -special blend (GMGT)
                  1987 Lincoln Mark VII 5-speed (Errand runner)
                  1989 Mercury Grand Marquis (Base Runner)
                  2007 Lincoln Town Car Signature Limited (Hustlyn)
                  2011 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor (Down with O.P.P)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Yes, the prop log is casual yet elegant. The hood shocks are, well shot. And for 80 bucks, the log works fine.

                    New question. It looks like for the short term anyway I'm going to have go carb, for ease and cost. The new engine already came with a 4 bbl edelbrock, so that's where it's headed for now. Question is- I know I'll need a fuel pressure regulator to get that psi down. My cousin thinks it will need to be 4-9 psi adjustable. Found one that is 1-5 psi for 30 bucks, as opposed to 90 for the 4-9 psi one.

                    Question is: will 5 psi do it?

                    thanks

                    Bob

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Can't get aftermarket hood shocks cheaper???


                      "Hope and dignity are two things NO ONE can take away from you - you have to relinquish them on your own" Miamibob

                      "NEVER trade your passion for glory"!! Sal "the Bard" (Dear Old Dad!)

                      "Cars are for driving - PERIOD! I DON'T TEXT, TWEET OR TWERK!!!!"

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hood "shocks" are less than $5 a piece at www.rockauto.com right now.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Check out the link in my signature for a CFI to SEFI conversion. As stated you will need a couple more parts than I did, some different ones since you have a HO motor, but its not all that bad.

                          Pete ::::>>> resident LED addict and CFI defector LED bulb replacements
                          'LTD HPP' 85 Vic (my rusty baby) '06 Honda Reflex 250cc 'Baileys' 91 Vic (faded cream puff) ClifFord 'ODB' 88 P72 (SOLD) '77 LTDII (RIP)
                          sigpic
                          85HPP's most noteworthy mods: CFI to SEFI conversion w/HO upperstuff headers & flowmasters P71 airbox Towncar seats LED dash light-show center console w/5 gauge package LED 3rd brake light 3G alternator mini starter washer/coolant bottle upgrade Towncar power trunk pull underhood fuse/relay box 16" HPP wheels - police swaybars w/poly rubbers - budget Alpine driven 10 speaker stereo

                          Comment


                            #14
                            If you're going carb, ditch the stock electric pump and either fit a mechanical fuel pump or use an electric designed for carb usage. Also make sure you have a distributor thats proper for use ith that engine. it needs a steel gear on the distributor, not the cast iron gear.
                            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                            Originally posted by phayzer5
                            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Beatlebob32 View Post
                              Yes, the prop log is casual yet elegant. The hood shocks are, well shot. And for 80 bucks, the log works fine.

                              New question. It looks like for the short term anyway I'm going to have go carb, for ease and cost. The new engine already came with a 4 bbl edelbrock, so that's where it's headed for now. Question is- I know I'll need a fuel pressure regulator to get that psi down. My cousin thinks it will need to be 4-9 psi adjustable. Found one that is 1-5 psi for 30 bucks, as opposed to 90 for the 4-9 psi one.

                              Question is: will 5 psi do it?

                              thanks

                              Bob
                              Yes 5 psi is what the Edelbrock carb calls for.

                              If your HO motor came with a carb intake maybe it already has the mechanical fuel pump timing cover installed?

                              Also if you do eventually go with a carb intake make sure you have your transmission TV pressure hooked up and set properly. Very important.

                              Comment

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