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Thread: Exhaust Options

  1. #1
    I post a lot... pantera77's Avatar
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    Default Exhaust Options

    Exhaust questions for boxes seem to be pretty common, so I've tried to gather up some of the usual basic info floating around. Please let me know if anything is wrong/should be added/your opinions. This is just stuff I remember/have done myself so I'm making it up as I go along. I'd just like to make a nice exhaust options write up once and for all.



    So you want to upgrade the exhaust on your Box? Excellent. Here's some info to hopefully help you make a decision on what would be best for your own car.

    The first and most basic upgrade, would be upgrading to factory duals. Factory duals are worth ~10hp over factory single exhaust.
    Factory duals consist of: H-pipe, drivers side muffler, drivers side tailpipe, and additional hangers.

    This is a 100% direct replacement, that requires little to no modifications. The hangers themselves changed in 89? so be aware if your using junkyard parts.

    Next up is one of the must common questions. Will Mustang headers fit on my Box? Short answer: No. But why?

    Let's look at the factory manifolds. These are all the same from 86? to 91 for 302's. Early 79-85 manifolds may be a touch different, and/or missing an o2 sensor hole.




    These large cast iron beast are very heavy, and don't flow that great. They work excellent in a dumpster.

    A nice upgrade to these, are 1990 Town Car tubular manifolds, commonly referred to as "Lincoln Logs".




    These weigh significantly less then the cast iron manifolds, and also flow a touch better. They are also a 100% direct bolt on to your factory down pipes and require no modifications.

    They also have another significant plus, and that is they can be used on GT40P cylinder heads. There is just enough room for the plug wires, but if you need to/want to retain your factory exhaust, these are your only options.

    GT40P's with Lincoln Logs mocked up:




    Next up is Mustang headers. These will not bolt to your factory down pipes. The collectors on the factory downpipes are too small, and just barley make contact with the headers, the angles aren't quite right, and the bolt holes do not line up. A few have "made it work", but in the end were unhappy. What else needs to be done to make Mustang headers work? We'll get to that in a second. Let's look at header options quick.

    First up is factory Fox Body headers.




    These work great for a modded lopo, or stock HO. You can often find these for very cheap/free, as Mustang guys upgrade to aftermarket. The only mods need for them to work (besides for the rest of the exhaust), is spacers for the brackets for the air box, dip stick tube, and possibly the smog stuff. Those same rules apply to nearly every aftermarket Mustang shorty header.

    If your running GT40P's, you will need a "P" specific header, such as these FRPP ones.




    Now, in order to run Mustang headers on your box, you will either have to have custom down pipes made, or run a Mustang H-pipe. Factory or aftermarket H-pipes follow the same rules pretty much. Nether fit that great, but can be made to work. A factory catted Mustang H-pipe will not work on a 90/91 as the one cat completely jams against the shift cable. It may work with some mods. You will also need either long wire 02 sensors, or extend the wires on your sensors. Mustangs have the 02 sensors in the H-pipe, as compared to the manifolds on boxes.

    Here's a factory Box exhaust system compared to a factory Mustang system.



    And an aftermarket Summit catless 2.5" H-pipe






    ************

    This section I need your guys help on, I know some people run mustang extension pipes with pipe welded on, and others run s-10 midpipes. I don't know enough about either to comment on.

    *************



    As I mentioned, the Mustang H-pipe doesn't fit perfectly. I personally cut the ball flanges off the H-pipe. Make a notch on the pass side pipe which sits at a weird angle, and bend it straight and weld it up. Then I weld some straight pipe back to the mufflers. I have done this successfully on 2 cars now, and it tucks the exhaust up to almost factory levels.





    Once you get to the mufflers, you can either dump the exhaust at the axle, or the most popular option is to add 2.5" Impala SS tailpipes. These are mandrel bent, and flow really, really good. As of now, the only place that still sells them is RockAuto. DynoMax 50417 and 50416 are the ones you want.

    They require a little love to fit, but are the best pre-bent buy-able pieces. You will have to add extensions too them though.




    As you can see, there isn't really a great option for us Box owners as far as aftermarket parts are concerned. Mustang parts work to an extent, as as of now are the best viable option IMO.

    Some additional info,
    Stock Explorer Manifolds:





    Comparison pic:

  2. #2
    Stow It! GM_Guy's Avatar
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    Nice writeup. Those explorer manifolds sure are ugly and look like more of a bottle neck than the stock cast iron logs.

    Alex.

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    Hopefully someone will chime in and add some info on what others use for mid pipes with a Mustang H-pipe, or add some info in general.

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    I originally used the lscl/mustang headers with LSC h pipe into lincoln lsc extension pipes into stock cv/gm mufflers and stock tails. This was for the wagon.

    Most of that I regret. The h pipe sat a bit low where it polted to the extesion pipes and would occassionally bottom out. That really was not that bad just mildly annoying. It became really annoying when it all started to rot off several years later. I hemed, hawed, patched, hemed, repaired, hawed and finally had custom stainless pipes bent from the LSC/mustang headers back.

    I tend to keep my cars for a long time so I should have bit the price bullet and gone stainless in the first place. I would have saved money and PITA's in the long run. If you do not think you will keep the car for long enough to rot out the pipes then by all means use aluminized steel.

    Money is always a factor, but like I said IF you keep your cars, save up, stay on the lookout for prices by asking around at different shops and go with something that should last the life of the car or more.

    Jay
    GMN donor. 89 Colony Park LS Mods>HO, 4 spray injectors, 2.25SS duals magnaflow hflow cats, 2010 Must GT mufflers, auto air shocks, Posi, Tran cooler, big front brakes, 03+ rear disks, Large 3g alt, Tripminder, GS grill, 86 seats, 93 CV radio, Kenwood Speakers, 16" HPP wheels, 225-60/16 BFG advantage TA's, winter boots=96 Cartier wheels, 215-65/16 Goodyear ULTRA GW3 snows, pi rear sway, alum driveshaft, HELLA H4's SS ultras H1 highs. It needs rear interior trim & headliner. Please help

    03 Marauder DPB, Silver Stars, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector.

    02 SL500 Silver Arrow pretty much done, nice ride, Maybe for sale

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    If this has been tried, just ignore this. Perhaps a good shop could integrate a later cv/gm/tc dual system into a semicustom job. I could see custom collectors welded on to the H pipe if the pipe will fit around the tranny.

    Those factory stainless systems last almost forever and while not loud have a nice v8 sound when the engine winds out.
    GMN donor. 89 Colony Park LS Mods>HO, 4 spray injectors, 2.25SS duals magnaflow hflow cats, 2010 Must GT mufflers, auto air shocks, Posi, Tran cooler, big front brakes, 03+ rear disks, Large 3g alt, Tripminder, GS grill, 86 seats, 93 CV radio, Kenwood Speakers, 16" HPP wheels, 225-60/16 BFG advantage TA's, winter boots=96 Cartier wheels, 215-65/16 Goodyear ULTRA GW3 snows, pi rear sway, alum driveshaft, HELLA H4's SS ultras H1 highs. It needs rear interior trim & headliner. Please help

    03 Marauder DPB, Silver Stars, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector.

    02 SL500 Silver Arrow pretty much done, nice ride, Maybe for sale

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    I post a lot... pantera77's Avatar
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    Ya, aluminized steel certainly won't last forever, especially not the cheap store-brand crap. Custom is by far the best way to go, but you can make a pretty decent fully mandrel bent 2.5" exhaust using nothing but off the shelf parts for other cars.

    In the case of the mustang H-pipe sitting low, I know many people have that problem. The way I mod them they seem to sit at stockish height. Both of these cars have the modded Mustang H-pipe, and you can't see them at all from the side.




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    Nice
    GMN donor. 89 Colony Park LS Mods>HO, 4 spray injectors, 2.25SS duals magnaflow hflow cats, 2010 Must GT mufflers, auto air shocks, Posi, Tran cooler, big front brakes, 03+ rear disks, Large 3g alt, Tripminder, GS grill, 86 seats, 93 CV radio, Kenwood Speakers, 16" HPP wheels, 225-60/16 BFG advantage TA's, winter boots=96 Cartier wheels, 215-65/16 Goodyear ULTRA GW3 snows, pi rear sway, alum driveshaft, HELLA H4's SS ultras H1 highs. It needs rear interior trim & headliner. Please help

    03 Marauder DPB, Silver Stars, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector.

    02 SL500 Silver Arrow pretty much done, nice ride, Maybe for sale

  8. #8
    Stow It! GM_Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantera77 View Post
    Hopefully someone will chime in and add some info on what others use for mid pipes with a Mustang H-pipe, or add some info in general.
    With pricing the way it is here in Canada, I just go custom stainless when it comes to exhaust. Only the MGM still has off the shelf stuff from manifold to cat flange. From there back its custom since it didn't cost me much more to do that than go with the ugly off the shelf stock pipe.

    Alex.

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    fuck no, not today, thank you kindly 1990LTD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GM_Guy View Post
    With pricing the way it is here in Canada, I just go custom stainless when it comes to exhaust. Only the MGM still has off the shelf stuff from manifold to cat flange. From there back its custom since it didn't cost me much more to do that than go with the ugly off the shelf stock pipe.

    Alex.

    Yup, prices on the premade stuff are wack. Working at an exhaust shop helps immensely though - pipe benders are sweet.


    I am trying to convince myself to put a set of cutouts on the Ford...



    - 1990 Ford LTD Crown Victoria P72 - the street boat - 5.0 liter EFI - Ported HO intake/TB, 90 TC shroud/overflow, Aero airbox/zip tube, Cobra camshaft, 19lb injectors, dual exhaust w/ Magnaflows, Cat/Smog & AC delete, 3G alternator, MOOG chassis parts & KYB cop shocks, 215/70r/15s on 95-97 Merc rims

    - 2007 Ford Escape XLT - soccer mom lifted station wagon - 3.0 Duratec, auto, rear converter delete w/ Magnaflow dual exhaust

    - 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis Ultimate Edition - Daily driver - 4.6 2 valve Mod motor, 4R75E, 2.73s. Bone stock

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    Any photos of the hpipe once it is modified to tuck up underneath?


    1990 Colony Park, with HO swap.

    Previously:
    1990 Lincoln Town Car Cartier.
    88 CVLX
    01 Marquis

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    Nice, I forgot about this thread. That's what's on the Battlewagon?

    I think Heartthrob also has the '94-'96 Impala cat back. I used the whole system minus the mufflers (bought Summit turbos at the time). I cut the s-bends off each side of one of the mid-pipes. I had cutouts placed after the BBK H-pipe and put the S-bends after the cutouts. This put the mufflers in the stock location so I can use aftermarket hangers in the stock hanger locations. Plus, the Heartthrob tails have a few less bends. My 1cent to this thread.

    Packman

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    I post a lot... pantera77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packman View Post
    Nice, I forgot about this thread. That's what's on the Battlewagon?
    Both the battle wagon and HPP box have summit off road mustang h pipes on them that I modded to fit better. The wagon just has some glasspacks afterwards and dumps at the axle, the HPP box has generic turbo mufflers and impala SS tailpipes.

    Next time around I'm just going to make my own down pipes.

  14. #14
    Member of the Orb Alliance packman's Avatar
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    I liked Battlewagon's rumble. Subdued, but you know it's present.

    That's where I am at with mine. You probably don't remember what mine looked like (@ Englishtown), but the pipes at that time had been patched from numerous impacts. Got a set of used Tri-Ys from the swap meet to play with. If they don't hit the fire wall, I will get the appropriate bends and make my own downpipes as well. Hopefully in the process, I will be able to push what's left up closer to the body. That's assuming next spring I find a garage that I can do the engine swap in. Or just attempt to bang it out in the driveway.


    Packman

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    So you dont have to modify the top of the h-pipe where it meets the headers? I was reading it that you modify it there, but from the photos, it looks like its more at the h part of it. I'm gonna put a new system on my Town car in the spring, also gonna buy a wagon that has the pipes already on it, but it sits pretty low.


    1990 Colony Park, with HO swap.

    Previously:
    1990 Lincoln Town Car Cartier.
    88 CVLX
    01 Marquis

  16. #16
    I post a lot... pantera77's Avatar
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    Which H pipe? Stock panther down pipes, or Mustang H pipe?

    Mustangs headers work with Mustang H pipes
    Panther manifolds and lincoln logs work with panther down pipes

  17. #17
    "The finder of unobtainium and other magical items" zoomie's Avatar
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    x2 on the making own down pipes, thats sorta what i did with the last car i had
    89 townie, mild exhuast up grades, soon to have loud ass stereo....

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    Quote Originally Posted by pantera77 View Post
    Which H pipe? Stock panther down pipes, or Mustang H pipe?

    Mustangs headers work with Mustang H pipes
    Panther manifolds and lincoln logs work with panther down pipes
    I was going with Mustang headers, and then getting the H-pipe, but the two examples of that I have seen (at least on gt40 heads) hang pretty low.


    1990 Colony Park, with HO swap.

    Previously:
    1990 Lincoln Town Car Cartier.
    88 CVLX
    01 Marquis

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    Member of the Orb Alliance packman's Avatar
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    They do; or at least on mine. I measured the ground clearance once and it was like 2-3" away from the pavement. I've hit many potholes and I can't get into the driveway without using ramps. I've patched the exhaust 3x's already as well. Very annoying.


    Packman

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    GMN = life johnunit's Avatar
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    That's worse than mine, but the 351W and catted's are probably different. I'm also running with the cat/pipes damned close to the crossmember. Still the lowest thing on the car though, by a noticeable amount, and that's no bueno.

    85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
    160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
    waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

    06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

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