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    #31
    Originally posted by merc91 View Post
    what's pure bs is guys claiming that they notice "but dyno" gains of 10hp (5hp after the added weight assuming dual factory junk exhaust gains 10hp which it doesn't) in a 4000lb car. Either dyno, or do before and after track days like I did and be sure to post your findings... 5hp and 0 in the 1/4mile is what you will find. Sounds 10hp better, but we arn't talking ear dyno's here.
    It's like the honda boys around here saying a cherrybomb makes a difference.
    I'm not saying factory duals will make a significant difference on a stock lopo, But I'd wager the 10hp Ford rates them at is right.

    To say they make zero difference in the 1/4 is quite the stretch. I'll go put factory single exhaust with cast iron manifolds on my winter wagon, and if the worn out lopo still runs a 16.3 I'll leave it on. But I already know it won't.

    Even if lopo's are terribly anemic in stock form, five liters breathing through heavy, junk cast iron manifolds and a single crush bent 2" tube is a joke.

    And let's face it, these cars are slow, even HO/explorer swapped cars are slow. Most people here aren't building race cars, they just want their car a bit more peppy, and more then anything, to sound a bit better. Hence why there is nothing wrong with putting duals on a lopo.
    2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
    2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
    2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
    1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Hearsesrock427 View Post
      I see where you're going with this, actually. If people ONLY swap out the factory single exhaust for a factory dual exhaust (which has more piping than stock single exhaust, and has more cats, both of which add weight!), then they definitely aren't getting as much power as they think they are. If you ditch the stock headers for a slick aftermarket set (such as FRPP shorties or BBK long tubes), and go with a lighter aftermarket catless dual exhaust, you're definitely going to get more gain. Mainly because of the lower weight relative to just running stock catted duals behind shitty stock headers.

      I wouldn't be surprised if aftermarket tubular headers mated to an aftermarket catless dual exhaust is lighter than the stock headers mated to the stock single exhaust. Methinks I need to weigh all my exhaust parts before throwing them on to my next addition to the fleet, for comparison's sake.

      The case for aftermarket tubular headers and a catless dual exhaust:
      -You get lighter headers that flow better than stock- more power AND less weight.
      -You get a lighter dual exhaust that flows way better than the stock single exhaust- more power AND less weight.

      Why would anyone run anything else? Less weight and more power is a match made in heaven.
      Adding duals doesn't add extra cats. Y pipe gets swapped with an H pipe, you add a muffler and a tailpipe. It really doesn't add that much weight.

      And you make it sound like cats are full of depleted uranium. They aren't very heavy.

      I wouldn't even think about longtubes unless your planning a really serious build. Yes, they are arguably the best, but since there is no option that fits without significant mods, for 99.8% of box owners there is no reason to have them.
      2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
      2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
      2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
      1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by merc91 View Post
        what's pure bs is guys claiming that they notice "but dyno" gains of 10hp (5hp after the added weight assuming dual factory junk exhaust gains 10hp which it doesn't) in a 4000lb car. Either dyno, or do before and after track days like I did and be sure to post your findings... 5hp and 0 in the 1/4mile is what you will find. Sounds 10hp better, but we arn't talking ear dyno's here.
        It's like the honda boys around here saying a cherrybomb makes a difference.
        well when the 2.73 rear opens start to chirp the tires in dry weather and do a slight lift of the nose off the line instead of just hinting at a chirp and just getting torque roll of the car that you've been driving for some time already and know damn near every squeak... you tend to notice the little things. Some people have a feel for feeling small changes in things they are really used to. When I put the 3.55 and TL in... the butt dyno was really happy for the launch off the line ability increased appropriately. Whether you believe me or not is really none of my care. I just relay what I felt from it. I doubt it would have improved any 1/4 mile time more than a couple hundredths, but the feel of the drive was what I was going for. The 3.55s are what really nailed it for me. And really piss off honda kids as their civics can't pass me in town (below 45mph) as I have the hole shot on them every time (all of 4 times to date and I don't plan on doing crap like that any more as just quarter throttle in the 88 gets plenty of get up and go and will beat most other drivers across the intersection by half a car or more just do to piss poor reaction time (asleep at the light) as the case tends to be with most drivers around here. To each his own and they can ask what they want of me about what I've done to my cars that are still mostly stock (small changes) and I'll tell them that duals help a little, gears help a lot, HO swap helps more and intakes are pretty good stock unless they are falling apart like was the case with mine.

        Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
        rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
        Originally posted by gadget73
        ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
        Originally posted by dmccaig
        Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

        Comment


          #34
          Can any body tell me what this rattling noise is coming from the rear of the car

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Ace p71 View Post
            Can any body tell me what this rattling noise is coming from the rear of the car
            10/10 first post
            2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
            2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
            2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
            1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Ace p71 View Post
              Can any body tell me what this rattling noise is coming from the rear of the car
              Yes it's your flux capacitor. Have it serviced at your local Mike's Garage.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Ace p71 View Post
                Can any body tell me what this rattling noise is coming from the rear of the car
                it's that rattle coming from the rear of the car.

                Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                Originally posted by gadget73
                ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                Originally posted by dmccaig
                Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                Comment


                  #38
                  It's not a stretch to say factory duals hp is so minimal that it is negated by the weight, because it is. People can wager against that, but I went and DID the testing for wondering minds here. Mine was actually dumped duals at that, which still added more weight than hp gains.
                  Than mustang stock headers/ bbk h-pipe/ hi-flow cats/ dumped flowmasters gained only 7 hundredths in the 1/4 on a lopo motor with HO intake and explorer tb. Made the car feel more hotroddy to drive as a 17yr old at the time, but it was the ear dyno tricks.

                  Just to put into perspective, 100lbs makes a .15 sec 1/4 mile difference (12hp equ in a gt40P merc), as does 30*F drop in ambient temps...
                  I know we arn't all building racecars here but i use 1/4 mile et and mph references because its incredibly accurate and I can run as many passes as I like for $20 on fridays to gather all my info vs $100/hr on a dyno that varies from the next. 1/4 mile and physics don't varry.

                  Vs listening and building a half decent "performance" section, people get defending but and ear dyno's with stock junkyard add-on's, like saying it adds performance will make it so.

                  I'm not harping on anyone who wants to put stock ford stuff on, but there is a stock forum for that. It would be nice to have the occasional actual performance discussion here, and it would be nice if we could snap out of the stubborness of defending junkyard parts at all costs when somebody comes allong with usefull QUANTIFIED testing results.
                  I mean we are talking about a horrible breathing 150hp 5.0 that runs out of steam at 4000rpm here, and doesn't have a rev limiter because it can't even rev close to a redline in neutral! IDK how its so hard to believe adding another tailpipe to an exhaust that is already duals for the section that matters doesn't add more than a few hp.

                  The reason guys who get real performance out of there mercs stop posting here (in the performance forum) is because it turns into an argument everytime things go beyond stock parts swapps. Hense why this section hasn't advanced the slightest in the 20+ yrs of these cars being around.
                  Finally have an on the books porting/custom fab business!
                  HO bottom end,GT40Ps,cut/welded/ported upper+lower GT40 intakes,Comp XE258 cam,MS3X megasquirt computer,8 LS2 coils,2 dry systems + a 3rd wet,3 core rad w fans..1100hp Lentech WR AOD,custom 4" aluminum/moly Dshaft,custom rear/back half chassis adjustable 4link,wilwood 4 piston,moser 9" axles,locker, M/T 30x12's,4 staged fuel pumps,100lbs sound insulation,power/remote everything,2000W sound.4480lbs. 4.5s 0-60,12.8 1/4

                  Comment


                    #39
                    It would be nice to get a performance forum going here, the cars are very capable, I had my daily driver all ford part marquis +comp cam 400lbs heavier (4300lbs with all the extra luxury stuff) doing 0-60 in 6.7 seconds and 14.5 in the 1/4... not on the 2 nitrous systems. When this 3yr build from the frame up is done, it will be much faster and capable as these cars really do have a foundation for great potential.
                    We just need some open minds around here to make it happen
                    Finally have an on the books porting/custom fab business!
                    HO bottom end,GT40Ps,cut/welded/ported upper+lower GT40 intakes,Comp XE258 cam,MS3X megasquirt computer,8 LS2 coils,2 dry systems + a 3rd wet,3 core rad w fans..1100hp Lentech WR AOD,custom 4" aluminum/moly Dshaft,custom rear/back half chassis adjustable 4link,wilwood 4 piston,moser 9" axles,locker, M/T 30x12's,4 staged fuel pumps,100lbs sound insulation,power/remote everything,2000W sound.4480lbs. 4.5s 0-60,12.8 1/4

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by merc91 View Post
                      It's not a stretch to say factory duals hp is so minimal that it is negated by the weight, because it is. People can wager against that, but I went and DID the testing for wondering minds here. Mine was actually dumped duals at that, which still added more weight than hp gains.
                      Than mustang stock headers/ bbk h-pipe/ hi-flow cats/ dumped flowmasters gained only 7 hundredths in the 1/4 on a lopo motor with HO intake and explorer tb. Made the car feel more hotroddy to drive as a 17yr old at the time, but it was the ear dyno tricks.

                      Just to put into perspective, 100lbs makes a .15 sec 1/4 mile difference (12hp equ in a gt40P merc), as does 30*F drop in ambient temps...
                      I know we arn't all building racecars here but i use 1/4 mile et and mph references because its incredibly accurate and I can run as many passes as I like for $20 on fridays to gather all my info vs $100/hr on a dyno that varies from the next. 1/4 mile and physics don't varry.

                      Vs listening and building a half decent "performance" section, people get defending but and ear dyno's with stock junkyard add-on's, like saying it adds performance will make it so.

                      I'm not harping on anyone who wants to put stock ford stuff on, but there is a stock forum for that. It would be nice to have the occasional actual performance discussion here, and it would be nice if we could snap out of the stubborness of defending junkyard parts at all costs when somebody comes allong with usefull QUANTIFIED testing results.
                      I mean we are talking about a horrible breathing 150hp 5.0 that runs out of steam at 4000rpm here, and doesn't have a rev limiter because it can't even rev close to a redline in neutral! IDK how its so hard to believe adding another tailpipe to an exhaust that is already duals for the section that matters doesn't add more than a few hp.

                      The reason guys who get real performance out of there mercs stop posting here (in the performance forum) is because it turns into an argument everytime things go beyond stock parts swapps. Hense why this section hasn't advanced the slightest in the 20+ yrs of these cars being around.
                      I agree 100%. That's why people who want to make actual power should be spending their time on sbftech instead of here.
                      Hell, If I wanted to go fast for cheap I wouldn't waste any money on a sbf. I'd be picking up a jy 4.8/5.3

                      An explorer swap is about the most you'll see on here, and there's a reason for that. If people are happy with making their 18 second cars run 15's then so be it, I know I am.
                      2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
                      2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
                      2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
                      1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by pantera77 View Post
                        I agree 100%. That's why people who want to make actual power should be spending their time on sbftech instead of here.
                        Hell, If I wanted to go fast for cheap I wouldn't waste any money on a sbf. I'd be picking up a jy 4.8/5.3

                        An explorer swap is about the most you'll see on here, and there's a reason for that. If people are happy with making their 18 second cars run 15's then so be it, I know I am.
                        If I had the heart to put a Chevy in my box it would be a nice 5.3L Vortec or 6.0L...but if I wanted a Chevy powered land yacht I'd probablme get a late 80s fullsize Cadillac Brougham and drop in a 5.3

                        2011 Ford Ranger Sport 4.0 2wd - Magnaflow Axleback exhaust, K&N 63 Series CAI, DiabloSport 87 Octane tune, LEDs, 3000K LED projector fogs, 5000K Mini H1 projectors - Daily
                        1967 Ford Galaxie 500 Sedan "C-Code" - 289 2bbl/Cruise-O-Matic - Money pit/project

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Dear Panthers,

                          I train Border Collies for sheepdog trials because no dog of another breed has ever won a major sheepdog trial and I enjoy dog performance. I own a panther Wagon because it is comfortable, reasonably quiet, reasonably economical, very commodious and can be modified to stop and steer reasonably well. If I were interested in drag strip performance I would almost certainly look at those more-or-less stockers that dominate drag strip performance but I have known people who insisted on running sheepdog trials with Belgian tervurens and were not discouraged by failure. Different strokes.

                          Donald McCaig

                          Comment


                            #43
                            I want a Vic. identical to your blue one. I love that color scheme..

                            Nice write up, illuminates the road for people needing a cheap but good fix.
                            __________________________________________________


                            1985.03 Crown Vic. Coupe "CVGT" Build thread - china whirlybird, burnout machine.
                            The only 6 speed box on a late model frame.

                            Originally posted by SVT98t
                            It has air ride. I've disabled it since I've been jacking it up and down.

                            That is how you're supposed to jack it.

                            Up and down.

                            -ryan s.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              The trick as far as stock/junkyard vs. custom/aftermarket as far as exhaust, IMO, is molding it to your plans and leaving yourself headroom. Something like Pantera's beaters will never be able to make use of more than some stock mustang duals and lincoln logs, so why bother? If you're planning on going relatively big later, then do something aftermarket with 2.5" pipe, headers, etc. I'm saving for aluminum heads and other bits on a 351W, so I knew I'd be able to make use of 2.5" mandrel bent piping, and shorty headers. If I planned to stay stock heads and cam, I probably wouldn't have bothered with all that.

                              85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                              160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                              waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                              06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by johnunit View Post
                                The trick as far as stock/junkyard vs. custom/aftermarket as far as exhaust, IMO, is molding it to your plans and leaving yourself headroom. Something like Pantera's beaters will never be able to make use of more than some stock mustang duals and lincoln logs, so why bother? If you're planning on going relatively big later, then do something aftermarket with 2.5" pipe, headers, etc. I'm saving for aluminum heads and other bits on a 351W, so I knew I'd be able to make use of 2.5" mandrel bent piping, and shorty headers. If I planned to stay stock heads and cam, I probably wouldn't have bothered with all that.
                                I put aftermarket duals on mine because I didn't know any better. At the time, the only thing I knew was that headers and a full exhaust worked well on the Malibu; so I would presumably see the same kind of results for the Crown Vic. I failed to realize that it was an apples and oranges comparison between the 2 cars. Funny thing is I will retain most of the system I have now when I get around to swapping engines.

                                Packman

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