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Thread: All I want is heat, A/C, dome light, maybe dash lights (so dim they don't count).

  1. #1

    Question All I want is heat, A/C, dome light, maybe dash lights (so dim they don't count).

    What are all the possible connections I can remove from my 1986 5.8L Grand Marquis LS. Most things are broken, and shorts/parasitic drains are occurring.

    What's the bare minimum I need to run the beast electrically, until I can fix system by system. 7 years as an amplifier builder. I know electrical, but I don't know automotive, could use some frank succinct advice on stripping this car bare (electrically) while still driving it safely.

    My alternator has 2 molex type connectors on it. One fat 8g type connector (battery charger) that runs to the positive on the battery, and one with 18g wires, 3 of them, these seem to run to maybe the "computer". This connector is causing a parasitic drain. It does charge the battery while running, so it does not trigger the battery light in the dash. So alternator charges, but then VERY quickly drains with that connector on, and the engine off. I assume it is monitoring type things based on the wire gauge. This problem happens often with this car. Any ideas on why I keep "popping diodes"? I think it's a deeper problem than the alternator, I think that's just a symptom of a more stealthy problem, as this is a recurring problem.

    My solution is to start bare, and work my way up. Hence my query.

    Thank you for any constructive help you can provide. Chilton and Haynes are only as good as the dummy reading it.

    Edit: I'm 'popping' diodes, not 'pooping' them. That would be a whole different forum to post on.
    Last edited by Neohippy; 10-18-2012 at 11:05 PM.

  2. #2
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    ok you've got the shittastic 2g alternator. Honestly everything about that alternator sucks, but here's how it works. The two larger wires are the charge output wires as you've figured out. The 3 small wires are the voltage regulator. The white/black is the stator wire, and actually loops from plug to plug. The yellow is the battery sense wire and just goes straight to the starter relay as a voltage reference. The green/red is the idiot light / ignition turn-on wire. Without that one, the alternator won't do anything. If you have a drain caused by anything on that connector, basically the alternator is toast. That alternator design has a lot of problems. Its underpowered for one, and the connector is sort of crap. They tend to develop poor connections and catch the car on fire.

    My best advice is to do the 3g upgrade. You can search for it on here, its been covered a ton but basically its a 130 amp alternator to replace the 65 amp, and it eliminates the fire-prone plug for a more conventional bolted connection. If you've got any load beyond tbe bone stock car, you really want more alternator power. The stock one barely keeps up on it's own and it just won't deal with more load.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

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    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  3. #3

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    I started reading with a chuckle, then it turned to a sigh. Like a star wars reference, I looked into my heart and knew it to be true.

    Would a 100A be sufficient? I run absolutely no aftermarket anything. This is my daily runner, and as a result, less is more as far as power/fuel drains.

    You seem to know your shit (aka: a crap tonne more than me). Do you know where to find good wiring diagrams, and possibly a list of all non-necessary electronics?

    I want to rewire the whole thing, but like moving, or grocery shopping; a purge of all unnecessary components seems to be in order. I have the means and supply to rewire the entire vehicle with larger gauge, environment sealed wires and terminations. But I'm not going to do that, until I get the core (necessary components) wired, and routed in a more logical sense Freaking rat's nest. As a wiring guy, I find this offensive!).

  4. #4
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    if you do a 3g conversion, use the 130A alternator (the smaller 3G is 95A, still an upgrade, but it'll cost about the same for the 130A). there's threads about how to go about this.

    the 3G alternators can be pulled from numerous cars (most any ford with the 3.0L v6 from 93-2000 (Taurus, Windstar, 5.0L thunderbirds and mustangs from 92-94) There's a complete list posted in one of the swap threads.

    wiring diagrams and pointers: http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...s-1G-2G-and-3G

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
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  5. #5
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    The 100a is more expensive, requires different brackets, is a pain to rewire to make it all work, and has fairly feeble idle speed output. Its actually easier to fit the 130 in there.

    honestly I would not recommend fully rewiring the car. The more you mess with it, the more difficult it becomes to diagnose down the road. Much of the stuff is tied together and it would require fairly involved surgery to divorce things that are optional without affecting critical stuff. The Grand Marq doesn't really have all that much fluff anyway.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  6. #6

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    Can't find a 130 on RockAuto.com or in the immediate area. Looks like I'm gonna buy a rebuilt, and a kit. Use the kit to rebuild this one, so I can use it next year when the one I buy dies... For such a great drive train, the electronics are shit, like the body panels.

    Also, I do wiring for a living (no technical education or training, just damn good with a soldering iron and a pair of strippers), I run a manufacturing wing in an amplifier OEM. So redoing the whole car isn't all that daunting. It's exactly like you say though; which of the systems I wanna ditch, are for no apparent reason, attached to something that is critical. Like attaching the clock to the alternator type insanity.
    I don't know a lot of the test procedures and processes. But, there is a testing wing where I work, and those guys usually are available when it comes to my automotive needs.
    Besides haynes and chilton, are there any good references to research such surgery and divorce laws? I would like to look into the possibility. The wiring is literally the worst I have ever seen. I'm afraid to touch wires for fear they will break in two. I have to use 2 or 3 different solvents to clean the wires enough to see the colour they once were.

    As far as future troubleshooting, I will do the same I do at work when I am building a prototype amp. I document and label location and purpose of all wires, colour code, shielded, connector, direct solder, etc. I want a journal I keep with the car I can use, because what the previous owners have left me... is not what I read about in chilton and haynes. Freaking electrical dreadlock draping over exhaust manifolds and wrapping around dip stick tubes.

  7. #7
    Fastest Box In South Jersey 86VickyLX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neohippy View Post
    Can't find a 130 on RockAuto.com or in the immediate area. Looks like I'm gonna buy a rebuilt, and a kit. Use the kit to rebuild this one, so I can use it next year when the one I buy dies... For such a great drive train, the electronics are shit, like the body panels.

    Also, I do wiring for a living (no technical education or training, just damn good with a soldering iron and a pair of strippers), I run a manufacturing wing in an amplifier OEM. So redoing the whole car isn't all that daunting. It's exactly like you say though; which of the systems I wanna ditch, are for no apparent reason, attached to something that is critical. Like attaching the clock to the alternator type insanity.
    I don't know a lot of the test procedures and processes. But, there is a testing wing where I work, and those guys usually are available when it comes to my automotive needs.
    Besides haynes and chilton, are there any good references to research such surgery and divorce laws? I would like to look into the possibility. The wiring is literally the worst I have ever seen. I'm afraid to touch wires for fear they will break in two. I have to use 2 or 3 different solvents to clean the wires enough to see the colour they once were.

    As far as future troubleshooting, I will do the same I do at work when I am building a prototype amp. I document and label location and purpose of all wires, colour code, shielded, connector, direct solder, etc. I want a journal I keep with the car I can use, because what the previous owners have left me... is not what I read about in chilton and haynes. Freaking electrical dreadlock draping over exhaust manifolds and wrapping around dip stick tubes.
    An EVTM for your year Grand Marquis would greatly help you there my friend. (Electrical Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual)
    "Vicky" 1986 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX ..................................."Blue" 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis LS

    Vicky
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    Blue
    Gone! But Parts from it will live on in others!


  8. #8
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

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    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Don't even bother rebuilding the 2G. It's not worth it. Seriously. It is a fire hazard!

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  10. #10
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    1995 Mustang 5.0 alternator is your application for the 130 amp. There is no direct fit for the 86, but its as close as you're ever going to find to a direct swap. The 65 amp alternator is a piece of crap and realy not worth the hassle. They catch on fire, which sucks.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  11. #11

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    Ok. Car is fixed up. Waiting a few hours to see the main draw is gone, as it turns out my multimeter just died. The other one just does voltage, and not amps. 12.8V so far. 14.7V when the alternator is juicing.

    On a side note... the 2 wires spliced into one ring connector that just rotted apart upon removal... goes to what now? Didn't fix it out of curiosity. Everything I use, or am aware of still works.

    As I typed that I just remembered I didn't see if the power seat still worked. Like I care though, my car, I drive it, no need to ever touch it again. Ever.

  12. #12
    Fastest Box In South Jersey 86VickyLX's Avatar
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    Two wires? On the starter solenoid? I believe that's the headlight and fuse box wiring...
    "Vicky" 1986 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX ..................................."Blue" 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis LS

    Vicky
    Too much stuff to list in my signature...
    Blue
    Gone! But Parts from it will live on in others!


  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by 86VickyLX View Post
    Two wires? On the starter solenoid? I believe that's the headlight and fuse box wiring...
    Upon concern with what you wrote about the headlights, I ran out and did some more troubleshooting. It's most definitely not the fuse box, as everything seems to work. BUT, it MAY be the rear window defrost. I'll find out tomorrow morning if the car starts and the back window remains a driving hazard.

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