PotM GrandMarq.NET - Panther Headquarters Forum Index PotM
GMN Chat Room GMN's STORE!! GMN's Gallery Please!!
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: HELP! information overload -- want to upgrade my '85 CFI

  1. #1
    '85 Merc Colony Park
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    233

    Default HELP! information overload -- want to upgrade my '85 CFI

    spent the last few days reading a zillion threads here; holy cow i think i'm more confused now than when i started looking into this project!

    guess i was overly optimistic that i could find a relatively 'simple' engine swap to get more power out of my '85 colony park.

    here's what i know...

    1) due to emissions rules i have to abide by the following:
    -- can't go "backwards" in technology (i.e. no carb)
    -- cannot use a truck engine (so no explorer motor)
    -- replacement engine must have at least all the emissions stuff i currently have: pcv, thermostatic air, evap, CEL, cat, O2, air pump, EGR, etc. etc.
    -- needs to remain OBD1 (so nothing after '95?)

    2) i've pretty much decided i'm going to rebuild and swap a motor so that A) i can learn something B) no down time for the car C) have a "fresh" motor to last several more years. initially i considered the "hipo" upgrade, but it seems like there are a myriad of parts necessary (since i'd need to go from CFI to SEFI) and my '85 block may or may not be roller cam apparently. i'd love to get close to the 225HP listed as stock '90s mustang power (haynes says my motor is 140HP).

    3) i'd like to keep this under ~$2500 (plan to also rebuild the AOD).

    4) local 'pull & pay' motors are $225

    ...i was thinking the '95 mustang 5.0 was a good candidate, but just found this thread which makes it sound not so straightforward after all.

    i'll admit i'm a bit behind-the-times in that my (limited) experience is building up a 289 for a '65 mustang many, many years ago. no emissions. no efi. no ecm or wiring harnesses. i'm eager to learn (just about finished reading "max performance ford V8s on a budget") just looking for the best platform.

    stopped by the junkyard today for a look around -- noticed a mark vii LSC (though the upper intake was already gone on this one). i see lots of stuff here about mustangs and explorers -- how about these late '80s lincolns?

    maybe it is just wishful thinking and regardless i'm going to have to piece this upgrade together.

    any insight appreciated.

  2. #2
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    39,278

    Default

    stick an 88-92 mark vii motor in and call it square. Its the same engine as a Mustang, but without the mass air meter. Usually in better shape too. The people that paid 10 grand more for the Lincoln usually took better care of it than the Mustang owners.


    any chance you can fib about what the motor came from? The 93 Cobra motor is not dissimilar from the Explorer engine.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  3. #3
    '85 Merc Colony Park
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    233

    Lightbulb

    thanks for the reply...

    so i know this contradicts what i said above, but in that case should i just grab the heads, intake, TB, etc. up top since i'd be looking to rebuild the bottom end and just use my '85 block (if it is indeed a roller)?

    when talking about the ECM and harness, just how much of the wiring do i need to get and where is it? will i be fishing out wires from the engine compartment back to the tank and the dash, or just grabbing a section under the hood?
    Last edited by sinistral; 11-18-2012 at 01:27 PM.

  4. #4
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    39,278

    Default

    no, the pistons in the 85 block suck, and it may not be compatible with the cam anyway. pull the complete engine, rebuild it if you want / need to, and swap the whole thing in one shot. this will also minimize downtime.

    pull the wiring harness from an 80s or early 90s vic. the ecm harness is basically one piece. unplug from the ecm, and take any wiring that follows it. take the wiring off the engine, the harness to the transmission, and the harness that feeds the oxygen sensors. the feed back to the tank is already there. you have to interface the late model harness to whats in the car but its not that many wires, and there are writeups on here on specifically how to do this on an 84 and an 85.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  5. #5
    '85 Merc Colony Park
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    233

    Default

    well i'd be looking to get an engine kit, so pistons/rods would be new...

    what's the easiest way to check whether mine is a roller? stamped code somewhere? other tell-tale sign?

    so the mark vii ECM/harness won't work, but the vic will? so would a GM harness work, too, then?

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sinistral View Post
    well i'd be looking to get an engine kit, so pistons/rods would be new...

    what's the easiest way to check whether mine is a roller? stamped code somewhere? other tell-tale sign?

    so the mark vii ECM/harness won't work, but the vic will? so would a GM harness work, too, then?
    I'm in the midst of converting my lopo CFI 84 wagon to HO sefi...I agree with the others, depending on how tight emissions are where you live, pull a mark VII engine complete and rebuild that if you like. You will be at 225hp and save your self a lot of hassle. I was able to buy a rough but complete Mark VII running for $500, pulled the engine and trans and sold the rest to the junkyard for $250. The Mark VII harness will not work, you will have to follow gadget's post and pull the harness from a '86 to early 90's ford full size: Crown Vic, Grand Marq, Colony Park, Country Squire or Lincoln Town Car.

  7. #7
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    39,278

    Default

    there is a block casting number on the side, next to the starter. Not 100% sure what the correct number is for the roller block, but it should start with an E5 or E6. if its E2, then its definitely not a roller block. If you remove the intake, you will or won't see the raised bosses for where the hold-down assembly goes. it will not be tapped, but if its roller-capable, there will be two raised flat bosses in the middle of the lifter galley. Non-roller blocks don't have this. You'd need to buy all of the hardware to fit in there if its not there. This is another reason I'd say buy the Mark motor. its got all the bits needed, plus the right cam and heads you can make use of if you weren't going to upgrade them.


    The Mark VII harness won't lay in there right. All the stuff is on the opposite side. A Vic harness will fit the car much better. Electrically speaking, the harness is nearly identical, its just a matter of fitment.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  8. #8
    '85 Merc Colony Park
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    233

    Default

    thanks, gadget... sounds like a plan.

    so out of curiosity -- what's the difference between the mark vii motor and a mustang motor of the same year (besides the ECM)? heads and cam or something?

  9. #9
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lewisville, TX
    Posts
    21,616

    Default

    Nothing, not even the ECM is different between Mustangs and Mark VII's. The only real difference is that people typically don't beat the hell out of Lincolns like they do Mustangs.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  10. #10
    '85 Merc Colony Park
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    233

    Default

    interesting... but there is a difference w/ the GMs, LTDs, or town cars though?

    drhill, any other advice or "gotchas" based on your experience thus far? what's been the hardest part? when do you think you'll be done (and how long will it have taken you)?

  11. #11
    Domestic Tourist Lincolnmania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Birdsboro PA.
    Posts
    17,466

    Default

    these cars are so old now that i highly doubt they would even notice if it had an explorer engine, as long as it's still eec4
    i have a 92 cougar 302 ho in place of the bastard block 4.6 in my 92 grand marquis.....they don't even wink an eye here when i get it inspected lol

    1986 lincoln towncar signature series. 5.0 HO with thumper performance ported e7 heads, 1.7 roller rockers, warm air intake, 65mm throttle body, 1/2" intake spacer, ported intakes, 3.73 rear with trac lock, 98-02 front brake conversion, 92-97 rear disc conversion, 1" rear swaybar, 1 3/16" front swaybar, 16" wheels and tires, loud ass stereo system, badass cb, best time to date 15.94 at 87 mph. lots of mods in the works 221.8 rwhp 278 rwt
    2006 Lincoln Town Car Signature. Stock for now
    1989 Ford F-250 4x4 much much more to come, sefi converted so far.
    1986 Toyota pickup with LSC wheels and 225/60/16 tires.
    2008 Hyundai Elantra future Revcon toad
    1987 TriBurner and 1986 Alaska stokers keeping me warm. (and some pesky oil heat)

    please be patient, rebuilding an empire!


  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sinistral View Post
    interesting... but there is a difference w/ the GMs, LTDs, or town cars though?

    drhill, any other advice or "gotchas" based on your experience thus far? what's been the hardest part? when do you think you'll be done (and how long will it have taken you)?
    Mustang engines from 89 to 93 (and in the newer bodystyle to 95) are mass air controlled (this started in 88 in California) whereas the Mark VIIs were all speed density controlled. Speed density and mass air require different computers but everything else is pretty much the same. Many of the pros on this site can comment better than I on pather differences etc.

    From my experience, just about every single problem area has been documented on this site...there are easily 4 build threads with all kinds of info you have probably already read. If you are ready to udertake the swap, I can give you a long post about my experiences with all the details organized - nothing that hasn't already been written...just all in one place.

    My swap is a bit more time consuming than most undertake in one shot. It's been just over two weeks of long days for me and I just got it to fire up tonight. Probalby have one more long day of cleaning up wiring, shift linkage and fixing one final coolant leak before it's on the road. But I had to pull an engine/trans and other items from a donor car, then take that engine down to the short block to inspect and re-assemble with ported heads, intake, roller rockers, 3G alternator swap, then junkyard to pull the harness and other items like fuel lines, cables from the town car...put everything together and drop it in the car, wire it... The only thing I did before the two weeks was get the donor car and the performance engine parts.

    I would have rather done what the others are recommending which is find a complete mark vii engine and swap it in as is. You would still have small stuff like flipping the intake, swapping fuel lines and wiring harness but much quicker overall. The bigger size of the trick flow intake has meant several hours of additional customizing....oil fill, ac lines, vacuum lines and fittings....all for California smog.
    Last edited by drhill; 11-20-2012 at 05:17 AM.

  13. #13
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lewisville, TX
    Posts
    21,616

    Default

    mass air has 3 more wires than speed density. There's a few write-ups on it floating around the net. As long as you make it neat and look like a "repair" job, nobody should care. Taking a stock HO and keeping the speed density is the easiest for sure.

    and yeah... speed density Mustangs/Mark VII will use all the same computers while MGM/CV/TC will swap with each other. This is due to the different firing order. But as far as look under the hood... no different at all. and if you really wanna make it look that way, don't put the HO plaque back on the intake, but use the one that came off the old engine. Then any inspector would be hard pressed to see there's an HO hiding under all those lopo accessories.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  14. #14
    '85 Merc Colony Park
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    233

    Default

    thanks...
    Quote Originally Posted by drhill View Post
    You would still have small stuff like flipping the intake, swapping fuel lines and wiring harness but much quicker overall.
    hmmmm... first i've heard of swapping fuel lines; can you elaborate?

    i think finding a mark vii complete motor has moved to the top of the list (w/ a "proper" rebuild, of course).

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sinistral View Post
    hmmmm... first i've heard of swapping fuel lines; can you elaborate?
    The fuel rail for the Mark Vii will not match up very well in your car, makes life much easier to grab the fuel rail and attached metal lines from a donor box era panther. One metal line runs on either side of the engine from the rail down the front where the Mark Vii runs both lines down one side of the engine. From the donor car, Cut the line at the rubber/plastic section of hose where it meets the hard line on either frame rail...they will swap right over to your car with some rubber fuel injection hose and clamps

  16. #16
    Member fmansfield444's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Northern KY
    Posts
    677

    Default

    +1 I tried mark 7 lines at first as well. They won't work nearly as well
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - Currently restoring after she caught fire! CFI to SEFI to Carb swap, all custom wiring, Duraspark 2 ignition, Motorcraft 2100 Carb, slicktop, Shorty headers dumped before rear axle, 140 Speedo, 3G alt, And currently building an engine for her.

    2000 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series - 165XXX, PI intake swap , 30 MPG Easy on the Highway, All options except dual exhaust. Currently looking for 2 front seats: Heated, Memory, and Light Graphite color!!

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
GMN Approved Links!


www.rockauto.com www.adtr.net