'69-'70 351W heads on EFI 5.0 HO

[HiFiMerc]

If that's the case, he was probably thinking Cleveland heads. He probably has some. Sounds like he's got a whole shed full of crap.

[turbo2256b]

You realy wouldnt notice the differance between a Dooe head , GT40 or P head. Ported with larger valves both the Dooe and GT 40s will flow the best.
After years of building SBFs Dooe and GT40s ported are the best heads to use on a 302 except an extreamy high RPM engine with no low end untill about 3000 RPM OR MORE.

[gearheadmm]

I had a set of '69 351W 4v heads, 20yrs ago, You could stick the large end of a aa maglite in the port.
They are rare, don't remember the casting #.
302 heads the small end would barely go in. Also had the hump.
Almost any off the shelf new aftermarket head is better though.

I've also had Cleveland motors.
CJ heads, CJ cam, stock iron square bore intake, and CJ 2500 rpm stall in a 4000# LTD will mess with some 5.0 mustangs, even with a 3.25 gear.

[gadget73]

One other thing to consider, the D0OE heads are meant for leaded fuel. You'd really need to have hardened valve seats put in to make them fully reliable. I actually gave a set away. By the time I had them rebuilt, got rid of the goofy rail rockers in favor of something I could use, and had hardened valve seats fitted, it would have cost as much as a set of AFR's for less power and having to use those stupid huge plugs.

[turbo2256b]

One other thing to consider, the D0OE heads are meant for leaded fuel. You'd really need to have hardened valve seats put in to make them fully reliable. I actually gave a set away. By the time I had them rebuilt, got rid of the goofy rail rockers in favor of something I could use, and had hardened valve seats fitted, it would have cost as much as a set of AFR's for less power and having to use those stupid huge plugs.

Hardened seats are not necessary as I stated above. The heads were run with leaded fuel. AS stated i ran 180,000 miles on my first valve job with stock valves....then cut for larger valves another 40,000+ miles and original factory valve job about 70,000 orig miles befor I bought them.

[turbo2256b]

I had a set of '69 351W 4v heads, 20yrs ago, You could stick the large end of a aa maglite in the port.
They are rare, don't remember the casting #.
302 heads the small end would barely go in. Also had the hump.
Almost any off the shelf new aftermarket head is better though.

I've also had Cleveland motors.
CJ heads, CJ cam, stock iron square bore intake, and CJ 2500 rpm stall in a 4000# LTD will mess with some 5.0 mustangs, even with a 3.25 gear.

There is no such thing as 2V or 4V windsor heads. Only 2V AND 4V C HEADS. i HAVE 2V c HEADS ON MY 400 AND 4 BBL HEADS ON A COUPLE 351 C mustang motors in my shop.

Therer were a few Tunnel port SBF 302 heads and a few Gurny Waistlake 3 valve heads but they are verry verry rare

[gearheadmm]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-351-Win...item2a3870601f
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/48...sor-heads.html
I HAD a set! THE EXHAUST PORTS ARE HUGE!

Funny you should mention Gurney/Weslake heads, I worked at a Lambo / Lotus dealer.
you never knew what was gonna come in the door there.
A TVR with a Westlake headed small block came in one day.
Will post pics when I find them.

My service manager at the Ford dealer was a wheeler dealer, he owned/had that "Durango" I posted in another thread.
He bought a '69 Torino from down south that supposedly had a side oiled 427 NASCAR motor in it.
It lost a rod bearing on the trip home, too much rod side clearance.
He brought a rod into work and was all excited to show it to me.
HOLY SHIT!!!, This is a LE Mans rod! was my comment.
He smiled because I was the only one in the whole dealership that knew what it was.

[turbo2256b]

I have been porting heads for 45 some years. I ordered bare 351W heads back in 69 when they were 25.00 each bare. Almost bought a set of Gurny HEADS BACK THEN THINK THEY WERE LIKE 600 Or 900 A PAIR.
All 351 heads up to about 72 on intermeadiate Fords 2 bbl or 4 bbl were the same, bigger intake same exhaust as a 289 / 302. The only ones that had a bigger exhaust were the 289 HiPo s and 260s. Basicly the 40s and Ps were modeled after the old 351W heads intake and the exhaust patterened after the 260 / 289 HiPo. The GT40s were actually designed for boat motors. Some dooe stylke heads ended up on boats for a few years after 72 on 351s and 302s.

[gearheadmm]

From the link...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-351-Win...item2a3870601f
I do not think this is a true 351W 4v head as the exhaust ports were larger unless mine where ported?
Notice D8OE casting #, '68 for use in '69 model year.

From the link...
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/48...sor-heads.html

Ford 351W '69 4v head 56-59cc C9OZ-6049-F
'70 head 63-64cc or 59-62cc - sources don't match D0OZ-6049-C - mine cc'd out at 65cc
C9OE and DO0E 351W heads appear to be identical

Listed are two PART #s (and two casting #s ?). Also differ from "engineering" #s that can be used to cross to part #s.
First two #/letter as in C9 = '69, D0 = '70.
Next two letters is usually application, what car, engine, package, ect.
6049 is the "basic" part #, all cyl heads will have this #
Last letter = "suffix", usually related to revision/application

First year for a 351W was '69.
A C9OZ-6049- F can be a 1969 or later head.
Which was probably replaced by...
A D0OZ-6049-C can only be a 1970 or later head.
"C9OE and DO0E 351W heads appear to be identical".
Are these casting or incomplete part #s?
C9OE = 2v ???

Question is what is the difference between a C9OZ-6049- F and a A D0OZ-6049-C?
The ONLY way to know is to hit the books, parts books that is.
Is a 4v head listed?
Why the different #s?
Did the 351W 4v head exist?

I think it did.
Get out a "aa" mini maglite and measure the big and small end.
If you think you can port an average small block head exhaust port
to the size of the big end of that maglite and not have it crack,
cause I beat the f*ck out of that motor, then MAYBE I'm wrong.
Those heads also had the smaller combustion chamber as listed.
Many other people I know and some magazine articals acknowledge the existence of this head.
I could be wrong, if I am I've been wrong for at least 20 yrs and I'll be taking a lot of other people with me???

With a single plane intake and big cam these heads pulled well past 6000 RPM on a 302.

[turbo2256b]

I have ported both the C9 and the DO the D1s they are the same developed a CNC program for them. Have CNC programs for all the SBF heads that were in production. People just confuse the 351W 2 bbl s and 4bbls as being different they were not. Only the 351C had 2V and 4V heads were different.

Later 351W heads became the same as 302 heads and the Dooe style heads were dropped from porduction. This was a mistake as the 351W realy needed larger heads with about the same flow as a set of 351C 2V heads.
I have in the past installed 2V 351C heads and 4V heads on 302s and 351Ws requies quite a few mods and bucks. Nobody made aftermarket heads back then.

[gearheadmm]

OK here's someone that agrees with you...
there is no 4v windsor head per say. the 69 2v head is identical to the "4v" head with the possible exception of the valve springs, the 4v uses dual springs and the 2v uses single springs to the best of my knowledge. the port sizes are the same, valves are the same, combustion chambers are the same and teh casting numbers are the same too. the only real difference between a 69 2v and 4v windsor is the pistons, the 2v uses a dished piston that gives a 9.5:1 compression ratio and the 4v has flattop pistons that give a 10.75:1 compression ratio and of course the 4v intake and carb, they even use the same camshaft too. they both have 1.84/1.54 valves as well.

the head casting numbers for a 69 351w head will be C9OE. i have D0OE heads on mine which are 70 castings and they are also identical to the 69 heads, same valves, chambers and ports and everything, in fact all 351w heads up to the D4OE heads are identical after that they went to the smaller 1.78/1.48 valves.

the only actual 4v 351 heads are the Cleveland heads and they are a whole different animal entirely
http://www.1969stang.com/mustang/for...hp/t-3790.html

Someone musta ported the shidt out of the set I had.

Confirmed...They do exist...Same shidt.

Any off the shelf aftermarket head is still better, so is aluminum.

Ford Motorsport catalog used to give directions on how to swap C heads onto a W.
Easy. 4v were to big and the aftermarket raised smaller port were better.

Again aftermarket still better.

[turbo2256b]

Vallve springs were all the same on 351Ws untill 71 after that the open and closed pressures dropped a bit and were all 2bbl engines. SBFs never used dual springs not even the Boss 302s or Boss 351s. They all used single springs with a damper.

As for 4V 351C heads have pulled over 650HP at the rear wheels with them and run over 10,000 RPM
351W heads i have run up to 9000 RPM on 302s and 351Ws
Aluminum heads are not always better on 302s most are too big. My 84 Mustang 302 wit hpocket ported DOOE heads 3.08 rear and 5sp would turn 12.2 in the quarter and get 25 to 28 MPG. I t beat the crap out of a lot of aluminum head cars with 4.10 gears

[gearheadmm]

A buddy of mine just built an aluminum NASCAR headed SBF that made 700HP at 9000 RPM.
Said the intakes flowed 400+ CFM.
Put it in a pretty stock '67 mustang and sprayed 500 HP to it and went low 8s.
Aluminum heads can get away with more timing.

[gadget73]

indeed, better cooling properties than iron. Just have to keep up on your coolant changes. THe head gaskets tend to develop problems with dissimilar metals if the coolant gets nasty and acidic. Distilled water is a must.