My 1989 Grand Marquis GS sedan "Ebyt"

[Hearsesrock427]

They also tend to burn starters out, and make it much more fun to replace the starter at the same time.

Did some reseach on long tubes burning out starters. It's related to the additional heat (tubes are a lot closer to the starter in most cases). This isn't issue for cold starts but it can make for bad warm starting.
Good info here: http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-foru...tarter.543388/
here: http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-...arter-buy.html
and here: http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-foru...stions.844669/

As you once said, there's nothing more permanent than a temporary fix. This got me to thinking..... as long as I space out my driving sessions (ie: let the car cool off COMPLETELY before starting it back up again), I can hopefully avoid killing my starter. I tend to drive Ebyt like this anyhow- just run her hard and fast on the twisties for a couple hours, and then shut her off and park her until the next day.

Also, couldn't I just re-grease the starter after every drive? That way I won't have issues with bad contact with moving parts..... any tips and/or reference pictures on how to do this?

There's also the issue of refueling. I should probably turn the car off for that..... but then I'd have to restart her with cooked starter grease. UGHA.

I do have a 5 gallon jerrycan (Debbie Supply FTW!), and could make multiple trips to and from the petrol station if need be. It's tedious and wasteful though. Could also buy more jerrycans in the meantime. I'll need to carry extra fuel for trips to and from SF2015 and other summer road trips anyway, so this isn't a completely unreasonable thing to buy.

When the starter does end up dying, the best fix is to throw on a high torque mini starter. Options include:
-Buy new. The links have some good info on replacements.
-Get one from a junkyard '90-'91 LTD CV or GM. Factory mini high torque starter FTW! Only issue is mileage- not sure how many miles a given unit would have on it. Might not even stand all the new heat either....

[gadget73]

its not just the hot re-starts, just the constant heat doesn't do you any favors. I will suggest a newer type starter too. They have a lot more torque, and they are smaller so you'll get some more clearance. 90+ has the updated starter, wiring it in is a piece of cake. They do make heat shields to help with all this too, but I'm a lazy bastard and don't want to change my starter more than once every other decade if I have a choice about it. I changed my original in 2005, so it didn't quite last as long as I feel it should have.


Starters don't really have lubrication of any significant amount in them. They have permanantly lubed bushings, but thats about it. You're not going to drop the starter, tear it apart, re-oil those bushings, re-assemble, and re-install every time you drive the car.

[Hearsesrock427]

its not just the hot re-starts, just the constant heat doesn't do you any favors. I will suggest a newer type starter too. They have a lot more torque, and they are smaller so you'll get some more clearance. 90+ has the updated starter, wiring it in is a piece of cake. They do make heat shields to help with all this too, but I'm a lazy bastard and don't want to change my starter more than once every other decade if I have a choice about it. I changed my original in 2005, so it didn't quite last as long as I feel it should have.


Starters don't really have lubrication of any significant amount in them. They have permanantly lubed bushings, but thats about it. You're not going to drop the starter, tear it apart, re-oil those bushings, re-assemble, and re-install every time you drive the car.

Ah, I see. Prolonged exposure will de-grease the internals.... I kinda figured. The engine bay's actually a lot cooler now (thanks to that coolant flush!), but it's gonna be a bit warmer at this rate thanks to the long tubes. But we should be okay, because I do in fact have a '90+ starter. I remember because back when I had the original starter replaced, I told the shop I want better than stock. They said okay, and threw on a '90+ starter, plus new wiring and new starter solenoid. Win. I confirmed this by comparing johnunit's old starter to his new ('91) starter. TLDR: I definitely have a factory mini starter. YES!!!!!!

That said, I shouldn't get cocky. I'll invest in a heat shield- an extra layer of protection can only help me here. As soon as I make more money, I'll order a heat shield, and a new IAC gasket.

And yeah, if the process to re-lube a starter is that tedious, I might as well just keep the new mini starter in good working order. I read up on greasing starters, and I'm not thrilled with a job like that. I sure as heck wouldn't want to do it every time I drove Ebyt!

Thanks for your help! I'll be sure to add these notes to a writeup on long tubes.

[Hearsesrock427]

BUILD UPDATE!

Finally, after months of delays, the long tubes are ON! And wow, what a difference. She gets right up and goes- you really feel her pulling hard in the low RPMs. Feels faster and smoother in general. No more sticky valve feeling either- she's nice and smooth now. Guess it was just a partially clogged exhaust pipe. I'll scrap all my shitty stock exhaust parts, from the headers to the tail pipes. That should pay for a tank of petrol!

First start + WOT runs video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jafV1t1E0Ys

BTW, she's not anywhere near as droney as the video makes her sound. It's just that my Nikon Coolpix L610 has a super sensitive mic; makes a little drone sound like a LOT of drone. I'll record some more WOT runs and fun times with my phone- perhaps its less sensitive mic will make for a better audio experience.

[Hearsesrock427]

WOT runs/exhaust sounds video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aqYXxcHftg

HUGE quality increase. Wow, what a difference a less sensitive mic makes. Enjoy!

[sly]

[88Vic]

That open headers? When I ran open LT's on my C10 for a day it lost all it's low end, was a total pig off the line. When I hooked it's 2.5" H-pipe exhaust back up, drove tons better.

Not sure what gears it had, said 2.73 but they may have been changed, I can't remember what rpm it was at, at 70mph so I can't calculate it but it had a TH350 without the lockup working. Still moved pretty good with that 350/290hp.

What gears are in yours? Definitely worth the upgrade to a K-code if you have stock 2.73's, it'd be a massive difference. We have two types of 6 liter trucks at work, and the bigger one pulls off the line just as well because of the lower gearing, so that proves to me the extra time and money for deeper gears is well worth it.

[Hearsesrock427]

That open headers? When I ran open LT's on my C10 for a day it lost all it's low end, was a total pig off the line. When I hooked it's 2.5" H-pipe exhaust back up, drove tons better.

Not sure what gears it had, said 2.73 but they may have been changed, I can't remember what rpm it was at, at 70mph so I can't calculate it but it had a TH350 without the lockup working. Still moved pretty good with that 350/290hp.

What gears are in yours? Definitely worth the upgrade to a K-code if you have stock 2.73's, it'd be a massive difference. We have two types of 6 liter trucks at work, and the bigger one pulls off the line just as well because of the lower gearing, so that proves to me the extra time and money for deeper gears is well worth it.

Yep! Haha.... I ran out of money for the build. I need to keep $130 around to pay for storage- the guy won't take advance payment for some reason. So I'm stuck. Believe me, I wanted the full exhaust done, from headers to tips. Literally the first thing that's going to happen come Spring is getting that damn H-pipe dual exhaust put on. Not only will it get rid of the drone (only occurs in a certain speed range and RPM range, but it's still annoying), but it'll make her faster. Can't argue with that!

Probably 2.73s. Economy gears were all over the place in the '80s.

2.73s, aka granny gears. I plan on buying a Trac-Lok from LincolnLarry, and rebuild it. I'll buy new 3.55 gears and have Scott throw on the 3.55+Trac-Lok+rear disc brakes. He's gonna need to take apart the rear suspension anyhow, so it'd make sense labor-wise.

[HiFiMerc]

Now it's got the bark, time to give it some bite.

[Hearsesrock427]

Now it's got the bark, time to give it some bite.

The time is growing closer. The big to-do list has grown, shrunk, and changed considerably over the past several months. I owe it to GMN to providing new ideas, as well as helping me improve on existing ideas. I'm not going to get to the 408 SEFI Windsor build until everything else is sorted out.... I'd hate to have a car that's too fast for its brakes!

The Big To-Do List!
-Replace battery cables (preventative maintenance)
-Dual exhaust installation (FINALLY!)
-Heat wrap headers (preventative maintenance)
-Alignment
-3G alternator swap
-Passenger door alignment (inner skin is dinked)
-Interior re-assembly (tried taking it apart to drop the headliner and get to the tiara bar bolts, but failed.)
-Slicktop conversion (Scott will do this)
-Mini starter (Scott will do this)
-Finish gutting the AC system (VicCrownVic's on this)
-Power passenger front seat conversion (VicCrownVic's on this)
-Swap in the digidash (VicCrownVic's on this)
-Swap in the Kenwood head unit (VicCrownVic's on this)
-Big Brake Swap (Scott will do this)
-Police center cap installation (Scott will do this)
-Brighter glass sealed beam lights/brighter exterior lights all around (Scott will do this)
-Sequential rear turn signals. (Scott will do this)

[87gtVIC]

Cool. Also how have you failed in removing the headliner?

[Hearsesrock427]

@87gtVIC: I lost some screws for the plastic interior trim that runs along the pillars..... should've taken pictures regarding which screw goes where. So I just stopped, and left it as-is.

But there's a solution- I'll practice dropping the headliner on some junked boxes (there's like, five at my favorite yard), take pictures of how I did it, and take the screws with me. Will also buy some digidashes for future projects.

[slack]

You could make a cool "How-To" thread with the pics you take if you do end up doing that!

[Hearsesrock427]

@slack: That's the idea! Should only take two practice sessions before I've got it down pat.

Then I'll do a video how-to. I will definitely film the slicktopping of Ebyt's stablemate. That'll be the first thing I do after a tune-up.

[Mr.Blue]

Just read all this.............so its still a 2.73 geared stock lopo with LT's and a baby stall? Wow.......just adding cheap exploder stuff like you originally started out doing will make a big impact along with some 3.73's.........dont fear the gear!








P.S............4.10'S/4.30'S are awesome also