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    #1

    batterys dying, turn ac on, turn signal on, speedo needle jumps/bounces

    Hi,
    This is a 1991 Grand Marquis.
    A couple of nights ago after having a dead battery, I replaced the cable ends and the starter solenoid. The NEW Walmart battery is only two months old.
    I charged up the battery and I drove to work a couple of days not using headlights but I did use the AC. I drove about 60 miles total. Today I drove about 8 miles and came home. It was slow to restart as I was about to go on a 20 mile round trip. While I was driving when I put my turn signal on the speedometer was bouncing to the click of the turn signal. The same thing happened when I beeped the horn. I was checking the charge by seeing how strong/loud the horn was.The same bouncing occurred when I turned the AC on so I kept it off. It also happened again when I turned the headlights on. Something told me to head home cancelling my trip. Thankfully I made it home and the battery is dead again.
    I did buy an alternator a few days ago. I did not replace it yet.

    Will a bad alternator keep the check engine light on?
    (BTW the car has the red oil light, but it has NEVER come on).
    Isn't there an alternator light in the dash?
    Why does the speedometer bounce when a load is put on the electrical?

    Thank you guys again,
    Mike
    90 Colony Park LS with GT 40 heads and intake. HO cam, 65 MM TB, 67 MM EGR spacer. Has a 75 MM Pro Flow mass air sensor. Borla XS mufflers. 3L55. Shift kit, 2000 stall Tq convertor...Bilstein shocks, front and rear sway bars.
    90 Colony Park LS 64,000 miles all original. 3L55 tow package....front and rear sway bars.
    91 Grand Marquis GS....HO motor..Bilstein shocks poly bushings and police swaybars. This one handles the best.
    70 Torino Squire with M code 351 Cleveland 3.00 has Magnaflow mufflers. Hidden headlights and power windows. All original
    Tags: None
    #2
    electronic speedo in 91. It could be affected by low charge system voltage or a weak battery.

    Doubt a dead alt would keep the CEL on, but low voltage makes the whole thing go stupid. The ECM does not work correctly below a certain point, though I don't know precisely what that point is.

    There is a battery light, but it comes on under certain conditions only. It is possible for the alternator to not be charging properly and that light to not come on. Its also possible for it to just be bad. Turn the key on and look for it. If it doesn't light up, thats why it doesn't come on and why its not charging.
    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Originally posted by phayzer5
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
      electronic speedo in 91. It could be affected by low charge system voltage or a weak battery.

      Doubt a dead alt would keep the CEL on, but low voltage makes the whole thing go stupid. The ECM does not work correctly below a certain point, though I don't know precisely what that point is.

      There is a battery light, but it comes on under certain conditions only. It is possible for the alternator to not be charging properly and that light to not come on. Its also possible for it to just be bad. Turn the key on and look for it. If it doesn't light up, thats why it doesn't come on and why its not charging.
      yup...all that, plus check the big square plug-in on the alternator for melty non-goodness

      Comment

        #4
        I Jump started with a quick start box and drove into the back driveway behind the wood gate. Terrible deed restrictions and safer behind the fence too. Turn off the engine and disconnected the battery and replaced the alternator. The longer rectangle connector seemed to have die electric grease in it. Otherwise both connectors went on easy with no issues. I charged up the battery and tried to start and engines turns over fast but no start. I sprayed starting fluid into the TB and again turn over normal but no start. I hear the fuel pump loud and clear. Seems like I'm getting no spark. Switched out the Accel coil for an MSD high energy coil that was good when I switched out about 4-5 months ago. Again no start. I also replaced the rotor with a new one.
        I'm stumped where to look next.

        The engine is from an 89 Lincoln MK7 with the intake reversed.
        Any chance the computer is bad?
        Is it a simple unbolt, unplug - plug in bolt in swap?
        I have the following computers available to use if needed. The engine is from an 89 Lincoln MK7 with the intake reversed.

        DY3 E7SF-12A650-YD
        D9S E9SF-12A650-SA
        D9S E9SF-12A650-S1A

        More advice please.

        Thank you
        Mike
        Last edited by stinkydogfilms; 05-04-2014, 10:37 PM.
        90 Colony Park LS with GT 40 heads and intake. HO cam, 65 MM TB, 67 MM EGR spacer. Has a 75 MM Pro Flow mass air sensor. Borla XS mufflers. 3L55. Shift kit, 2000 stall Tq convertor...Bilstein shocks, front and rear sway bars.
        90 Colony Park LS 64,000 miles all original. 3L55 tow package....front and rear sway bars.
        91 Grand Marquis GS....HO motor..Bilstein shocks poly bushings and police swaybars. This one handles the best.
        70 Torino Squire with M code 351 Cleveland 3.00 has Magnaflow mufflers. Hidden headlights and power windows. All original

        Comment

          #5
          While disconnecting the battery did the little ground wire that comes off of the negative battery cable get disconnected? If that's not it, and you didn't disconnect (and forget to reconnect) anything else, then it could be the TFI module on the side of the distributor or the PIP inside the distributor. I had the TFI go on my '89 without warning a couple summers ago. TFI modules can cost a bit so, if funds are an issue, the cheapest way to fix it is to swap a whole distributor in from the JY assuming you get a good one.
          Vic

          ~ 1989 MGM LS Colony Park - Large Marge
          ~ 1998 MGM LS - new DD
          ~ 1991 MGM LS "The Scab"
          ~ 1991 MGM GS "The Ice Car"

          Comment

            #6
            I ended up running mine with the alternator charge wire disconnected awhile ago (bad crimp on my part). I didn't know about it for awhile, but when the battery voltage finally started getting really low, the speedo started doing weird things when you'd put other draws on the system, and finally quit. Then other weirdness with radio and a bunch of other electronics started happening. Engine kept running however.

            FYI the battery light did NOT come on.
            Originally posted by gadget73
            There is nothing more permanent than a temporary fix.
            91 Mercury CP, Lopo 302, AOD, 3.08LSD. 3g upgrade, Moog wagon coils up front, cc819s in the back. KYB GR-2 police shocks. Energy suspension control arm bushings. Smog deleted.
            93 F-150 XLT, 302, ZF 5-spd from 1-ton, 4wd.
            Daily--07 Civic Coupe. Bone stock with 25k miles
            Wife--14 Subaru Outback. 6-speed.
            95 Subaru Legacy Wagon--red--STOLEN 1/6/13

            Comment

              #7
              After replacing the alternator. The alternator light does not come on when I turn the key in the on position.
              Wasn't there a thread about if the alternator light bulb is no good that the alternator will not charge? I don't ever remember seeing an alternator light come on.

              91Wagon let me ask which wire are you referring to as the alternator charge wire?

              I did change out the solenoids a few days before. The car started fine for a few days after the solenoid swap.
              I don't think the solenoid or alternator is keeping me from starting. I think it may be ignition related, possibly the TFI module.
              BTW the old alternator was a Motorcraft, most likely an original from 1991. Talk about longevity.

              Anyone have tips on checking to see if I have spark?

              Thank you all again,
              Mike
              90 Colony Park LS with GT 40 heads and intake. HO cam, 65 MM TB, 67 MM EGR spacer. Has a 75 MM Pro Flow mass air sensor. Borla XS mufflers. 3L55. Shift kit, 2000 stall Tq convertor...Bilstein shocks, front and rear sway bars.
              90 Colony Park LS 64,000 miles all original. 3L55 tow package....front and rear sway bars.
              91 Grand Marquis GS....HO motor..Bilstein shocks poly bushings and police swaybars. This one handles the best.
              70 Torino Squire with M code 351 Cleveland 3.00 has Magnaflow mufflers. Hidden headlights and power windows. All original

              Comment

                #8
                probably was somewhere, but yeah the alternator's I terminal feeds through the lamp to turn it on. If the bulb is bad or the circuit is open somewhere between the alternator and the key-on power, it will not do anything. If you didn't, pull the split loom tubing off of the alternator harness between the fender and the alternator. Make sure the wiring under there isn't melted. There should be a fuse link in that section and it could have failed, burning out the other wiring next to it when it went.


                to check for spark, pull a plug wire off, stick a screwdriver in there and lay it so its about a half inch away from an engine bracket or valve cover. if you don't see spark with the engine cranking, you have no spark. Don't hold on to the screwdriver. If you do, you'll definitely know if its got spark or not. Check your hair in the mirror afterward. If you look like Doc Brown, its working.


                Last edited by gadget73; 05-05-2014, 09:31 PM.
                86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                Originally posted by phayzer5
                I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by stinkydogfilms View Post
                  91Wagon let me ask which wire are you referring to as the alternator charge wire?


                  Mike
                  Is the one carries alternator output electricity to the battery. If it's unhooked, alternator no chargee le batteree
                  Originally posted by gadget73
                  There is nothing more permanent than a temporary fix.
                  91 Mercury CP, Lopo 302, AOD, 3.08LSD. 3g upgrade, Moog wagon coils up front, cc819s in the back. KYB GR-2 police shocks. Energy suspension control arm bushings. Smog deleted.
                  93 F-150 XLT, 302, ZF 5-spd from 1-ton, 4wd.
                  Daily--07 Civic Coupe. Bone stock with 25k miles
                  Wife--14 Subaru Outback. 6-speed.
                  95 Subaru Legacy Wagon--red--STOLEN 1/6/13

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Still no go.

                    I replaced the starter a couple of months ago.
                    A few weeks after that the female spade terminal wire to the starter was broke so I replaced the connector.

                    I am hoping it is this wire broken again.


                    Can someone tell me the path the electricity flows from the ignition switch (key) to the coil?

                    The motor turns over at a normal speed so I figure
                    the ignition switch is okay.
                    Since the motor turns over I figure the
                    starter solenoid is okay.
                    Since the car turns over I figure the starter is OK

                    Where does the path go from the starter ending up somehow to the coil?


                    I put a spark tester with a light in line from the coil to the distributor cap and have no spark.

                    Thank you again,
                    Mike
                    90 Colony Park LS with GT 40 heads and intake. HO cam, 65 MM TB, 67 MM EGR spacer. Has a 75 MM Pro Flow mass air sensor. Borla XS mufflers. 3L55. Shift kit, 2000 stall Tq convertor...Bilstein shocks, front and rear sway bars.
                    90 Colony Park LS 64,000 miles all original. 3L55 tow package....front and rear sway bars.
                    91 Grand Marquis GS....HO motor..Bilstein shocks poly bushings and police swaybars. This one handles the best.
                    70 Torino Squire with M code 351 Cleveland 3.00 has Magnaflow mufflers. Hidden headlights and power windows. All original

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Is the coil getting power? If it is and there is no power to the dizzy you have your answer.


                      "Hope and dignity are two things NO ONE can take away from you - you have to relinquish them on your own" Miamibob

                      "NEVER trade your passion for glory"!! Sal "the Bard" (Dear Old Dad!)

                      "Cars are for driving - PERIOD! I DON'T TEXT, TWEET OR TWERK!!!!"

                      Comment

                        #12
                        In the words and voice of Ed McMahon......YESSSSSSSSSS!

                        I got the 91 GM started. I had to bring in someone who can troubleshoot the electrical. The mechanic spent a total of four hours probing all of the wiring under the hood and swapping out the MSD TFI module, MSD coil and MSD distributor cap back to the parts I replaced 4 months ago. Then he put the new TFI module, new coil back in and kept the old distributor cap on. We also installed a new Motorcraft PIP sensor. We put in another computer from a MK7. Still had no luck. I then suggested after 3 hours to check a connector I rigged 10 months ago. It is a large round 4 pin M-F connector on the DS. The male side had disintegrated so I taped it very well 10 months ago for a cheap fix. We un taped it and pushed the blades back into the female connector and "ALL BUSINESS" started up for the first time in three weeks. It was running a little rough so we switched the MK 7 computer back to the original one. It was running good so we left it alone.

                        I am going junkyard shopping tomorrow for the male and female connector.
                        Any parts I should try to grab as extras while I am there?

                        I do want to thank everyone here who always helps me when I come begging for advice. You guys are so awesome.

                        Mike
                        90 Colony Park LS with GT 40 heads and intake. HO cam, 65 MM TB, 67 MM EGR spacer. Has a 75 MM Pro Flow mass air sensor. Borla XS mufflers. 3L55. Shift kit, 2000 stall Tq convertor...Bilstein shocks, front and rear sway bars.
                        90 Colony Park LS 64,000 miles all original. 3L55 tow package....front and rear sway bars.
                        91 Grand Marquis GS....HO motor..Bilstein shocks poly bushings and police swaybars. This one handles the best.
                        70 Torino Squire with M code 351 Cleveland 3.00 has Magnaflow mufflers. Hidden headlights and power windows. All original

                        Comment

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