I call it the Monolith. I have plans for it.

[ootdega]

Ah the budget vs needs Dilemma. Been there. Still doing that.

If money is tight, focus on functional rather than nice looking or fast. Don't worry about the rest if the body work. That can wait until later. I think my windshield has leaked for decades. I drilled a hole in the floor to let the water drain!

Check out the front end first. Get under the car while it's off and have someone turn the wheel back and forth. Look for problems in every joint. Jack up the front wheels and rock the wheels top to bottom. Shouldn't move at all. These cars have very grease gun friendly front ends, but not all prior owners kept up with that.

The problem is this leak is right above the steering wheel, else I wouldn't be too worried about it.

I'm hoping there wasn't any serious problem with the suspension, but I'll do that when I have someone else available. The previous owner never even changed the oil, so...

A/C comes on when the defrost is on too don't forget, helps pull moisture out of the air. If your compressor is locking up it's probably failing internally coating the insides of your a/c system with little pieces of metal and derbis. If that's the case it's time for a complete A/C rebuild. New compressor, accumulator, orifice tube, o-ring set, thoroughly flush the condenser and evap core, a complete evac and recharge it all ads up to $$$.

Spin the compressor by hand and feel if it's gritty and hard to turn. Unplug the clutch for the time being or pull the belt.

The A/c compressor runs when the HVAC is on anything but off, vent, or floor on a non ATC car. ATC I can't remember because mine never worked! I think they are the same except they don't have the floor setting, so it will run on anything but off or vent. The compressor takes some horsepower to drive, it's not uncommon to notice some difference. But if it's getting worse, you may have a problem. Smog pump sound the same still?

Okay, so I can avoid that by having it on floor when the windshield isn't fogged. I didn't know about that.

I don't know what the smog pump sounds like, so it probably hasn't changed, but it didn't put this kind of stranglehold on the engine when wasn't running properly. Now it surges forward when the clutch re-engages, which has to mean it drains at least 30 horsepower. The Dodge Hellcat's supercharger requires 80 horsepower.

I don't get the feeling there's anything else wrong with the system, it feels like it's just the compressor and the blower motor. I'll keep it on floor when the windshield is clear and deal with it sometime before summer. It'd be nice if the heater would also use the front vents, but what can ya do I guess.

I'll see how the thing turns when I have a warm-ish day to do so. I should probably loosen the belt first though, which means I should have someone around to hold it, because I would have no idea how to re-install it without any kind of camera.

A subframe huh? Must have one of those rare unibody panthers.

Yes, the whole suspension is probably in need of a complete refresh, you are driving a 30 year old car.

Smartass.

I'm talking about something like this. Frame reinforcement. Wouldn't be wrong to call it a subframe, because this actually has a frame to begin with.



I've already replaced all four shocks and the airlines to the rear ones. The sway bar bushings are fine and I don't remember seeing any bushings at first glance that looked awry. What all should I take a look at?

I know the ball joints, connecting rods, control arms, and wheel bearings (though I can't find how to check the wheel bearings since the wheel hub on these is the brake rotor). What else is relevant?

[ootdega]

Correction, they're not called connecting rods. They're sway bar links. Connecting rods attach to the crankshaft.

Figured I should clear that up before pantera77 snarks me again. Ha.

I also realized that the compressor drag is probably being amplified by the faulty motor mounts.

[Tiggie]

On the compressor - you can turn it with the belt on. Turn off the car then grab the center of the compressor clutch. Should turn easily. As pantera said - if it's not smooth then just unplug the wire. Then you can run the HVAC on whatever setting you'd like and the compressor can't run.

[ootdega]

Well, I went out and tried it, and I can turn the front center part of the clutch just fine. No grinding, smooth and easy.

I tried rotating the pulley and it was a complete no-go, but I don't think that's the important part since I'm fighting every other pulley in the system. I know it has two belts though, so I'm not entirely sure which does what...

[ootdega]

Been to and from the same place twice again, and the problem hasn't repeated itself.

I know I'm overly sensitive to unusual behavior with my car, but there's stuff going on that really makes me feel like something, somewhere isn't right. There was the thing I mentioned before, sometimes there's a short drag on...something in the drivetrain (downshifting maybe? Doesn't feel like it), a KUNG noise on both sides when I turn at full lock (probably spring movement, I dunno), sometimes it likes to drift right slightly on the brakes...a bunch of little, unattributable misbehaviors that don't happen often enough to tell me anything.

I don't know what it is or where to start looking, but something is off. My gut tells me it's something to do with the ball joints, but that's all I've got and it makes me feel like an idiot. I dunno. I don't want to go and check every little thing either, because it'll just end up pissing me off. I'll have to do it alone, the dirt and shit will make my nose drive me nuts for the next two days, I probably won't learn jack, and checking anything like the ball joints or wheel bearings requires a shitload of disassembly that will probably get me nowhere if I can even do it in the first place.



In other news, I got this thing off a 94 Cobra for 40 bucks. First part for future use. Took advantage of the price while I could.



I am able to take this picture because the phone I bought showed up. First smartphone I've ever had and I still haven't figured out half the things it can do.

It's a Galaxy S4. Got it for $130 and it's through this FreedomPop thing that's still in beta. 200 minutes, 500 texts and 500 MB a month guaranteed free for life. Signal strength isn't fabulous as of right now, but I can't afford to be picky.

[ootdega]

I have acquired an acquisition.

1999 Mountaineer V8 AWD. It was $450. The only things that were damaged were the radiator and condenser. Those of course are trashed, but the electric radiator fan looks like it should be fine. Everything else in the engine bay is unharmed.

I have a large list of things I'm going to salvage from it. Removing the engine and transmission should be easy, because nobody will care if I take a Sawzall to the front of this thing. I bought the Ford shop manual for it, both volumes.

My plan is to rebuild both the engine and the transmission, take the entire wiring harness and ECM out of the Mountaineer and swap everything directly into the car. Then I will have OBDII, DIS, and the ability to flash tune both the engine and transmission. The transmission is an AWD configuration, so I'll need to swap the output shaft and change the tailshaft housing when I get it rebuilt. I also plan to use the fuel pump, both to make things much easier and to be able to fully use the more efficient injector design. It runs at around 70 psi, rather than 40.

I was hoping it had the 16 inch alloys on it, but unfortunately it has the 15 inch steels. That does mean I can use the tires, though. I also want to see if the center caps will work on my wheels. That would be neat.

Since it's a Mercury, it also has air compressors under the front seats. I'm going to try to rig those up to my air shocks.

I've also changed what I want to do with the engine. The only non-essential things I'll be investing in are steel roller rockers, Navigator injectors, and a custom cam. That's it. Tune it and see what happens.

I'll J-mod the transmission and use heavier-duty frictions in the rebuild as well. Force-lubricated tailshaft housing wouldn't be a bad idea either. Might as well.

The MAF should bolt directly into the Cobra housing without any issues, so I can still use that. The distributor rotor I bought will now be useless, but that was 2 bucks.

The Craigslist ad said it had less than 100k on it, but the odometer says 205k. Not sure whether he was lying or the collision knocked out the odometer. He did take care of it though and he was sad to see it go. Just before the wreck he had fully serviced the engine and transmission. Wires, plugs, flush, everything. New tires as well. I guess I won't know for sure until everything's opened up.



The full salvage list:
-Engine
--All accessories and hoses
-Transmission
-Differential
-Rear brakes
-Seat air compressors
-Wheels
-Wheel caps
-Tires
-Wheel center caps
-Sound system
-Cooling fan
-Wiring harness
-ECM
--All sensors
-Catalytic converters
-Muffler
-Hood lifters
-Fuse box(es)


I wanted to ask you guys if I was missing anything, and if there's anything I need to know before tearing into this thing. Is there anything I can sell? The transfer case maybe? Driveshaft? The interior is completely gutted, though. Do you think the brake booster would fit? That would be convenient.

I have learned a lot in the past year, so I should know some semblance of what I'm talking about and I should have no problem understanding things. And I probably won't look like as much of an idiot. So yeah. Anyone have any thoughts?





Oh, uh...and both the differential and the transmission are completely shot in the car. First gear barely works, second gear slips slightly less, and the left rear wheel can lock up at any speed now. I'm in a bit of a pickle. But I'm working on it. Engine's great, though!

[gadget73]

I don't think the cats are going to be much use to you. From memory here they lay in there kind of stupidly, mostly because of the moronic exhaust manifolds those things used. You will probably have an easier time using something more closely shaped to the stock pipes, and just add in the extra bungholes for the second o2 sensors. Ditto the muffler.

The accessories. Well. I was involved with putting Explorer accessories into an 88 Towncar. Functionally, it would be the same on your car. It was a gigantic pain in the ass. It did eventually all go, but it involved custom AC lines, some cobblefuckery with the power steering pump to make it feed the steering box correctly, and just general headaches with hose and wire routing. I want to say the solution for the PS pump was a regulator spring assembly filched from a late 90s CVPI with non-variable rate steering fitted to the Explorer pump. I do not remember what the hose setup was, but it may have been two connected together to make it fit.

The stock accessories aren't interesting, nor is the belt setup anywhere near optimal. It does have the benefit of fitting though. Same with the intake facing the stock direction. It goes under the hood correctly. The 99 Mounty motor uses an external EGR, which would need to be re-routed to the other side to have it face the stock direction, but not flipping the intake basically insists on a lot of headaches with the AC, and having to move the battery at a minimum.

Don't think the diff will work either. Probably too narrow, and I'm pretty certain the mount points are not the same. If its an AWD or 4x4, the trans won't work for you either. You'd need a 2wd trans to connect a driveshaft to. The transfer case bolts right onto the arse end of the trans, no provisions for a driveshaft without it.

obd2 is a lot more flexible than the stock ECM or the old EEC-IV stuff. At some point the old stuff just isn't work dicking with anymore. Its old, inflexible, and getting increasingly expensive to even buy. For it's day it was pretty good but the usual go-to ECM stopped being put in a production vehicle after 1993.

if it sounds like I'm very much a pro-stock guy, thats really not the case. I only really favor the stock stuff in the sense that it fits into the car without massive headaches.

[knucklehead0202]

I don't think the cats are going to be much use to you. From memory here they lay in there kind of stupidly, mostly because of the moronic exhaust manifolds those things used. You will probably have an easier time using something more closely shaped to the stock pipes, and just add in the extra bungholes for the second o2 sensors. Ditto the muffler.

The accessories. Well. I was involved with putting Explorer accessories into an 88 Towncar. Functionally, it would be the same on your car. It was a gigantic pain in the ass. It did eventually all go, but it involved custom AC lines, some cobblefuckery with the power steering pump to make it feed the steering box correctly, and just general headaches with hose and wire routing. I want to say the solution for the PS pump was a regulator spring assembly filched from a late 90s CVPI with non-variable rate steering fitted to the Explorer pump. I do not remember what the hose setup was, but it may have been two connected together to make it fit.

The stock accessories aren't interesting, nor is the belt setup anywhere near optimal. It does have the benefit of fitting though. Same with the intake facing the stock direction. It goes under the hood correctly. The 99 Mounty motor uses an external EGR, which would need to be re-routed to the other side to have it face the stock direction, but not flipping the intake basically insists on a lot of headaches with the AC, and having to move the battery at a minimum.

Don't think the diff will work either. Probably too narrow, and I'm pretty certain the mount points are not the same. If its an AWD or 4x4, the trans won't work for you either. You'd need a 2wd trans to connect a driveshaft to. The transfer case bolts right onto the arse end of the trans, no provisions for a driveshaft without it.

obd2 is a lot more flexible than the stock ECM or the old EEC-IV stuff. At some point the old stuff just isn't work dicking with anymore. Its old, inflexible, and getting increasingly expensive to even buy. For it's day it was pretty good but the usual go-to ECM stopped being put in a production vehicle after 1993.

if it sounds like I'm very much a pro-stock guy, thats really not the case. I only really favor the stock stuff in the sense that it fits into the car without massive headaches.

Pussy. Just kidding
These are all totally legit points. Personally though, unless you're doing a bunch of mods, you'd probably be better off with EECIV with a MAF computer. I'm working on a semi-serious stroker motor with a bunch of aftermarket crap, potentially including forced-induction, and I don't plan to go any crazier than the A9P, maybe with a tune later on. Going OBDII can get really screwy with shit that didn't start life together, so if that's your mission I wish you the best of luck.

Stock is boring and lame but extreme variations from such can get you in a bed of crap in a hot hurry. Consider keeping it simple.

[ootdega]

I don't think the cats are going to be much use to you. From memory here they lay in there kind of stupidly, mostly because of the moronic exhaust manifolds those things used. You will probably have an easier time using something more closely shaped to the stock pipes, and just add in the extra bungholes for the second o2 sensors. Ditto the muffler.

The accessories. Well. I was involved with putting Explorer accessories into an 88 Towncar. Functionally, it would be the same on your car. It was a gigantic pain in the ass. It did eventually all go, but it involved custom AC lines, some cobblefuckery with the power steering pump to make it feed the steering box correctly, and just general headaches with hose and wire routing. I want to say the solution for the PS pump was a regulator spring assembly filched from a late 90s CVPI with non-variable rate steering fitted to the Explorer pump. I do not remember what the hose setup was, but it may have been two connected together to make it fit.

The stock accessories aren't interesting, nor is the belt setup anywhere near optimal. It does have the benefit of fitting though. Same with the intake facing the stock direction. It goes under the hood correctly. The 99 Mounty motor uses an external EGR, which would need to be re-routed to the other side to have it face the stock direction, but not flipping the intake basically insists on a lot of headaches with the AC, and having to move the battery at a minimum.

Don't think the diff will work either. Probably too narrow, and I'm pretty certain the mount points are not the same. If its an AWD or 4x4, the trans won't work for you either. You'd need a 2wd trans to connect a driveshaft to. The transfer case bolts right onto the arse end of the trans, no provisions for a driveshaft without it.

obd2 is a lot more flexible than the stock ECM or the old EEC-IV stuff. At some point the old stuff just isn't work dicking with anymore. Its old, inflexible, and getting increasingly expensive to even buy. For it's day it was pretty good but the usual go-to ECM stopped being put in a production vehicle after 1993.

if it sounds like I'm very much a pro-stock guy, thats really not the case. I only really favor the stock stuff in the sense that it fits into the car without massive headaches.

That's a shame. I was hoping I'd at least be able to use the power steering pump. It looked neat. Oh well. So is there anything I can work with? I think the alternator would probably work without much trouble. Does the brake booster have the same bolt pattern? Compressor maybe? I'd like to use any newer parts I can easily install. I mean, this is 10 years of tech, ya know?

I'm aware the differential can't be used as a whole assembly, I just want the important parts out of it and the brakes off the ends. Those I can use. What sucks is the longer axle shaft is ALMOST long enough to fit the car, like .15 inches too short.

The transmission is AWD, but all it takes to convert it to 2WD is changing the output shaft and tailshaft housing, which can easily be done during a rebuild. I said that somewhere in the wall of text, but that is a pretty big wall of text. Does the 4R have the same mounting points as the AOD or will I have some crossmember tinkering to do?

And yeah, part of the reason I started thinking in this direction was the massive headache involved with EEC-IV chips. I could not for the life of me find straight answers or competent tuners. Unless you own a Mustang or a Falcon. Then you get canned tunes based on Ford alphabet cams. Will mounting an OBD-II port be an issue?

Is there anything on this thing that people commonly want to buy? I imagine Sploder guys converting to 4WD would want the transfer case and whatnot.

Personally though, unless you're doing a bunch of mods, you'd probably be better off with EECIV with a MAF computer. I'm working on a semi-serious stroker motor with a bunch of aftermarket crap, potentially including forced-induction, and I don't plan to go any crazier than the A9P, maybe with a tune later on. Going OBDII can get really screwy with shit that didn't start life together, so if that's your mission I wish you the best of luck.

Stock is boring and lame but extreme variations from such can get you in a bed of crap in a hot hurry. Consider keeping it simple.

The idea is that this all DID start life together. I'm taking the engine, transmission, wiring harness, and ECM out of the Mountaineer and putting all of it in the car. Direct powertrain transplant. The only fundamental things I plan to change are the torque converter and the cam. Then I can easily tune it to work 100% with the car. This is the simplest solution I could ever think of.

[Brown_Muscle]

I have some tuning experience, my buddy John has more, I understand your frustration about finding a competent tuner, lots of misinformation out there... It's generally not recommended to mix and match MAF's with different MAF housings, even if you're tuning it. The airflow around the sensor is designed in conjunction with the housing. Will it work? Yes, and it may work perfectly fine, but it'll be hard to tell until you can see how smooth/rough the MAF flow is, if you have a cobra MAF that goes with that housing use that and have it tuned to that maf, or keep the stock mountaineer maf and housing if you can.

Aside from that, sounds like you have some fun work ahead of you, OBDII swap as a whole is a neat idea, what computer does the 99 mountaineer use? And can't you just swap your box accessories onto the mountaineers engine and call it a day?

[gadget73]

Alternator I don't think bolts up. Not sure about the booster, but one from a later Panther definitely fits. functionally vacuum boosters have changed very little in the last 40 years or so. Only real difference is the surface area of the diaphragm.


Tuning can be done, sure, and it would probably be less work than the obd2 wiring installation, but the hardware to tune it is somewhat more expensive. Its all a trade, either you pay in time or you pay in cash. As far as the vehicle, you have a bigger Mustang for all practical purposes. Its all the same computer bits. There is definitely an overload of nonsense out there about the voodoo inside the ECM though.

You'll just have to run the wires and mount an obd2 port somewhere. Its not likely to be the most difficult part of the process. I converted a car to OBD2 once. It even worked, its just a damned lot of wiring. I had the huge advantage of using a later model Panther harness in an early 90s car with a 2004 or so engine. Basically the harness fit the car physically, the engine pretty much matched the harness electrically, and it only required a little bit of surgery to make it all talk together. A harness that doesn't physically fit into the engine bay is more difficult just because you have to un-bundle and re-bundle things, and sometimes it involves splicing extensions and such in to make it all reach.

Box accessories can be fit to the Mounty engine. Its been done.

Ranger guys will want the motor mounts. Its the right part to put a V8 in a Ranger. Not sure how many people convert to a 4x4 without just replacing the vehicle. I know its been done, no idea if anyone does it on an Explorer or Ranger though.

[ootdega]

I have some tuning experience, my buddy John has more, I understand your frustration about finding a competent tuner, lots of misinformation out there... It's generally not recommended to mix and match MAF's with different MAF housings, even if you're tuning it. The airflow around the sensor is designed in conjunction with the housing. Will it work? Yes, and it may work perfectly fine, but it'll be hard to tell until you can see how smooth/rough the MAF flow is, if you have a cobra MAF that goes with that housing use that and have it tuned to that maf, or keep the stock mountaineer maf and housing if you can.

Aside from that, sounds like you have some fun work ahead of you, OBDII swap as a whole is a neat idea, what computer does the 99 mountaineer use? And can't you just swap your box accessories onto the mountaineers engine and call it a day?

The problems are that the Cobra MAF uses a 4-pin connector while the Mountaineer has a 6-pin, and the Mountaineer MAF is freaking tiny. However, there are OEM MAF sensors for the Mountaineer that have an identical housing. Part number F57F-12B579-DA AF-FD30. The problem there is that MAF stopped being used in 98, and this is a 99. It should plug in just fine if I buy the sensor for that housing though. Looking into it just now, I didn't realize there were two different sensor types. Glad you mentioned it.

Alternator I don't think bolts up. Not sure about the booster, but one from a later Panther definitely fits. functionally vacuum boosters have changed very little in the last 40 years or so. Only real difference is the surface area of the diaphragm.


Tuning can be done, sure, and it would probably be less work than the obd2 wiring installation, but the hardware to tune it is somewhat more expensive. Its all a trade, either you pay in time or you pay in cash. As far as the vehicle, you have a bigger Mustang for all practical purposes. Its all the same computer bits. There is definitely an overload of nonsense out there about the voodoo inside the ECM though.

You'll just have to run the wires and mount an obd2 port somewhere. Its not likely to be the most difficult part of the process. I converted a car to OBD2 once. It even worked, its just a damned lot of wiring. I had the huge advantage of using a later model Panther harness in an early 90s car with a 2004 or so engine. Basically the harness fit the car physically, the engine pretty much matched the harness electrically, and it only required a little bit of surgery to make it all talk together. A harness that doesn't physically fit into the engine bay is more difficult just because you have to un-bundle and re-bundle things, and sometimes it involves splicing extensions and such in to make it all reach.

Box accessories can be fit to the Mounty engine. Its been done.

Ranger guys will want the motor mounts. Its the right part to put a V8 in a Ranger. Not sure how many people convert to a 4x4 without just replacing the vehicle. I know its been done, no idea if anyone does it on an Explorer or Ranger though.

Well I mean the alternator is already bolted to the block. Even if all I keep from the Mountaineer is the alternator and the tensioner, the only variable should be the belt, right?

Looking up the boosters for a 99 Mountaineer and a 2004 Grand Marquis...and they seem to be identical except for the bolt pattern. The master cylinder is identical except for the shape of the reservoir. Theoretically I should be able to use the master cylinder. I could just use the old one in the car, but it's old.

Tuning OBD-II has more people who know how to do it and it's much easier to actually accomplish. Not only that but I can tune the transmission too. The overall result should be much better and less convoluted. Also something something future-proof something.

I don't think I'll have any issues fitting it in the engine bay. The Mountaineer has like half the engine bay the car does. The more I hear, the more confident I am this will happen.

I'll have to go to one of their forums and ask around I suppose. I'm having to keep the truck at someone else's place, so I basically have one go and then it goes to scrap.


Oh, uh, something I forgot: Would it hurt anything to start it without the radiator just to see how it runs for a minute? It should start right up once the pulleys aren't digging into plastic.

[87gtVIC]

You car start it without coolant.

[ootdega]

Okay, great.

[gadget73]

it'll be fine, just don't keep it running for too long.

The alternator bolts to a bracket that hangs on the front of the motor. If you use the Panther accessories, it will not fit with the rest of the parts. The spacing is all wrong.

What I mean about fitting into the engine bay is the layout matching what you need, not so much about the physical size of the engine bay. I don't believe the battery and ECM are in the same locations for example, so you'll have to screw with the harness to make it fit, or screw with the car to alter where things are. A harness that is made so that the parts physically match where the connectors are goes in a lot easier than something that doesn't match up. Imagine putting your left shoe on your right foot, you might get it in there but it doesn't want to go.


I would not recycle brake parts. Its just a bad value. The other variable is the size of the bore in the master cylinder. If its different, it affects how the pedal feels. I would really stick to stock panther parts in that realm, they are known to work correctly. I'd also buy new ones. Besides, this thing hit something in the front end. I wouldn't trust brake parts on a vehicle that smacked a pole. For all you know, thats why it hit the pole.