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    #16
    Originally posted by turbo2256b View Post
    ... First thing to look for in frequency range. 20 to 20,000 htz is normaly concidered human hearing range. ...
    That frequency range is more of an ideal than actual range. Even if someone was lucky enough to have that full range in their youth, hearing degrades with age. A more typical range would be about 30 to 16,000 Hz for adults. The high frequencies keep declining with age, and that's why elderly people often need you to speak up or repeat things. Of course, loud music doesn't help either, which is why I usually limit really high volumes in my car to brief periods and wear loosely fitting wax earplugs at high volume concerts.

    When it comes to speakers, I personally think specs are pretty much useless in the OP's situation. You're looking for something that sounds good to you, not something that looks good on paper.

    Originally posted by mashaffer View Post
    ... But seriously, one thing to look for if using factory head is not to get something too inefficient. In the home stereo world Infinity is know for poor efficiency but this may not be true in auto but, keep an eye out for that. I would think most mid-grade stuff should be fine though. Just something to keep in mind. ...
    I've never listened to Infinity, but I did look at some specs for one or two of their car speakers at one point. (I never said looking at specs is always useless.) Those car speakers were inefficient. Efficiency in this context is essentially how loud a speaker will play with a given amount of power. You basically need to use more power to make an Infinity sound as loud as a more efficient speaker. AFAIK, Infinity is the oddball. All the rest might have significant differences in efficiency, but that's what you would use the fader control for (i.e. balancing the loudness of the front and rear speakers).

    I agree that most mid-grade stuff should be fine. The way I see it, you basically have three tiers. The first tier is factory car audio with the cheap paper speakers. I'm amazed at how relatively few people actually bother to change those. The second tier is the brands you've probably heard before: Alpine, Pioneer, Sony, JVC, MTX, Kicker, etc. The variability within the second tier can be quite significant, but IMO all of these brands are pretty much in the same ballpark. The third tier is the really esoteric stuff with names that you've probably never heard before. You need buckets of money for that kind of stuff.
    Last edited by IPreferDIY; 07-29-2014, 10:24 AM.

    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
    mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

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      #17
      I'm 36 and can still hear that range. Used to be able to hear higher... but now it's down to "ideal" the last time I checked using the tone generator in Audacity on my computer.

      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
      rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
      Originally posted by gadget73
      ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
      Originally posted by dmccaig
      Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

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        #18
        Originally posted by sly View Post
        I'm 36 and can still hear that range. Used to be able to hear higher... but now it's down to "ideal" the last time I checked using the tone generator in Audacity on my computer.
        You should see if you can get a free test at a hearing clinic just for kicks. They use standard reference levels, so being able to hear 20,000 Hz at a higher volume would not necessarily put you in the ideal range.

        2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
        mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

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          #19
          true... but unless they offer that for free... I probably won't.

          Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
          rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
          Originally posted by gadget73
          ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
          Originally posted by dmccaig
          Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

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            #20
            i have alpine type s 6.5 in the doors and 6x9s in the rear, going to add dayton 4 inch for voice, most likley 2or 3 sets of them and atomic subwoofer int the trunk......but that wont be till later, much later
            89 townie, mild exhuast up grades, soon to have loud ass stereo....

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              #21
              Originally posted by sly View Post
              true... but unless they offer that for free... I probably won't.
              Another potential free option would be seeing if a university has a hearing lab that is doing hearing tests as part of a study. They might even pay you a small amount for your time. I made some extra money being a guinea pig way back when I studied psychology. Incidentally, the damage from one particular concert actually showed up on a later hearing test.

              2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
              mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

              Comment


                #22
                Speakers I found are pioneer 6x9 27 to 27K hz p/n TS-6995R or TS-D6902R 28 to 30K hz.

                5 1/4s need some mods to fit front TS-D1302R 40 to 25K hz.

                Didnt look up 6 1/2s was going to look into replacing them with 6x9s. Same series of speaker in 6 1/2 are probably a bit better on lows than the 5 1/4 like 35 to ?K hz

                Have had all kinds of ears im my car nothing but kudoos like it ...its like wearing head phones ... real punchy bass
                Scars are tatoos of the fearless

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by IPreferDIY View Post
                  ... When it comes to speakers, I personally think specs are pretty much useless in the OP's situation. You're looking for something that sounds good to you, not something that looks good on paper. ...
                  I should probably clarify that becoming familiar with what the specs mean certainly can't hurt if one is so inclined. The significance of efficiency (usually listed as "sensitivity" with a dB rating) had previously been mentioned. As for frequency range, what speaker companies generally mean when they say "X Hz to Y kHz" is that the speaker will reliably produce those frequencies within a certain tolerance in a standardized laboratory testing environment. Anything above 20kHz is irrelevant unless you're hoping to please dogs and other animals that can hear such high frequencies. The lower frequency rating is somewhat useful, but not determinative. A speaker with a 40Hz rating might very well sound better than a speaker with a 30Hz rating. The type of music being played will be a particularly important factor. Incidentally, one reason that people use subwoofers is that feeding low frequencies to these smaller speakers actually degrades their overall performance, even if they were designed to handle them.

                  The numbers are certainly a useful part of being a knowledgeable consumer, so don't get me wrong in that respect. At the end of the day, it's a matter of whether you would be okay with going online and choosing speakers without having actually heard what they sound like.

                  2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
                  mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Sometimes, just putting an amp on the factory speakers is enough. Ever heard a pair of those blue coned Premium Sound 6x9's driven by an old school RF Punch 40? They actually deliver decent bottom end, and decent top end when the EQ is bumped up a bit in the high range.
                    1990 MGM: $50 E7 heads, HO cam, Holley SysteMAX lower intake, HO upper intake with an Explorer TB. LSC ECM. Lincoln logs into stock dual exhaust. K&N drop in air filter. Wide ratio AOD, 2400 converter with a 3.08 one tire fire out back. Car is less slow now. Then there's the '92 Beater. Dual 2.25" exhaust with shiny tips. Rumbles nice. Super slow. Burns oil too.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by HiFiMerc View Post
                      ... Ever heard a pair of those blue coned Premium Sound 6x9's driven by an old school RF Punch 40? ...
                      For the sake of clarifying my own position, I would include Premium Sound systems along with name-brand factory systems as things that I don't have any experience with. I would presume at least some of those systems would be somewhere in my second tier category.

                      2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
                      mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

                      Comment


                        #26
                        According to some reviews that I am reading all of the cheaper speakers don't have any bass. I don't know if it's just guys that try to shake the windows with their stock stereo by simply changing the speakers or what. Anyway, I got a pair of Kenwoods on sale, will see how they sound and go from there. I still gotta do something about the rear deck. Are there any speakers that I can drop in from the top or do they all have to go in from the bottom?

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                          #27
                          As far as what speakers to get, it all depends upon several factors. Such as the type of music you will be listening to and how sensitive your hearing is. For better or worse, I was born with "perfect pitch" (as opposed to "relative pitch") so I am more sensitive to sound (and what I consider to be acceptable). How a car speaker sounds, in a store, will NOT sound the same in your vehicle and is only an approximation. Speaker companies are like used car salesmen - a lot of "puffing" and the specs really depend upon how they are getting their readings. Bottom line - find something in your price range that appeals to your ears and go with it! Bobby


                          "Hope and dignity are two things NO ONE can take away from you - you have to relinquish them on your own" Miamibob

                          "NEVER trade your passion for glory"!! Sal "the Bard" (Dear Old Dad!)

                          "Cars are for driving - PERIOD! I DON'T TEXT, TWEET OR TWERK!!!!"

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Mr Bean View Post
                            According to some reviews that I am reading all of the cheaper speakers don't have any bass. I don't know if it's just guys that try to shake the windows with their stock stereo by simply changing the speakers or what. ...
                            One phrase that I grew up hearing was “Consider the source”. There would probably be a world of difference between a product review from a customer on a website and a professional review in a magazine.

                            To add to what Bobby said, don’t trust the salespeople either. Just because they were hired to sell the stuff doesn’t necessarily mean they’re experts. Here’s an interesting example. I had developed my audio experience with home systems before transferring that knowledge to car audio. Before going on a subwoofer binge, I went to a car audio shop to have a listen. I adjusted the settings so that everything was nice and balanced. The salesman said something like “No, that’s not how you do it” and boosted the bass to try to produce the “bouncing down the street” effect. It sounded horrible. People like that are among those who I stay away from.

                            You might want to give some thought to putting a better speaker wire in while you’ve got the doors opened up. It’s a cheap enough tweak for someone who budgeted $150 for a pair of speakers. I love 12 gauge myself, but even 14 gauge would probably be an improvement over what’s in there. (This is how an audio addiction starts, but it's better than being a drug addict!) Just remember to route the wires properly around the window stuff so the windows don’t catch on them.

                            2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
                            mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Much of what you'll get out of a speaker depends where it is mounted and what it is driven from. Even a good speaker mounted improperly and driven from a junk amplifier will sound bad. Cars are quite frankly horrible for accurate sound reproduction anyway. The "enclosure" is not sealed in any meaningful way, and it is made of resonant materials. Best case, you're going to end up needing a fair bit of equalization to make it sound reasonably flat. I did some testing on the Mark VII JBL amplifier, and found that it's output is waaaaay far from flat. Its got peaks and dips across the range. I suspect this is purposely done to tailor the sound to the car, the speakers, and the head unit itself so that it comes out sounding right. It does sound quite good when its all together and working correctly too.

                              Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is that good sound reproduction doesn't come from a bunch of individual parts. It comes from a group of components that work well together, and the particular car itself is one of those components. it just happens to be the one you can't change a whole lot. I kind of wonder if there are people out there that can actually tailor the system so that it accurately reproduces sound given all the various shortcomings. I know with some home audio stuff, people use microphones and software to work out an analysis of what the system is really doing so they can adjust it to come out right. No clue if anyone does that for auto setups or not.
                              86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                              5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                              91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                              1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                              Originally posted by phayzer5
                              I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by turbo2256b View Post
                                Speakers I found are pioneer 6x9 27 to 27K hz p/n TS-6995R or TS-D6902R 28 to 30K hz.

                                5 1/4s need some mods to fit front TS-D1302R 40 to 25K hz.

                                Didnt look up 6 1/2s was going to look into replacing them with 6x9s. Same series of speaker in 6 1/2 are probably a bit better on lows than the 5 1/4 like 35 to ?K hz

                                Have had all kinds of ears im my car nothing but kudoos like it ...its like wearing head phones ... real punchy bass
                                BTW sensitivity on these are quite good. Being a bass player since early 70s bass is important to me. Dont care for subwoofers at all. I have set up fany 2000 some watt autos with them but hate them. Most isntriments dont go below 20hz possibly an oboe (sp) and synthesizers. I have built my own speaker inclosures in the past things like volume of cone to size of cabnet.
                                Years ago built cabnets with double wall construction sand inbetween the inner and outer walls. A three way speaker from Lafayette Electronics Utah speakers I BELIEVE THEY WERE ABOUT 50.00 EACH AROUND 1972 A COUPLE TIMES A YEAR THEY HAD A SPECIAL buy one get second one for a penny. A friend came over for a party and was realy freeked out as our cheepy stereo system sound blew away his 10,000 $ SYSTEM. Cabnets can mean a lot.
                                I am one of the few that has an extended hearing range. I a test were it was dipicted on a card like a sysmograph I t didnt even regester on the card. They had me redo it I cheeted and waited a bit longer than when I started to hear the sound. Even at that only a few strokes showed up atthe verey edge of the card in two or three places.
                                Yea I can here dog whistles and other high and low pitched noises bothersome at times even though I have tendonitis and a constant ringing in my ears still test over average hearing. down side is to manny sounds at once like listening to TV and someone talking get mussed up.
                                My son has the same sort of hearing a neibour found out bought a dog whistle an screws with him.
                                Scars are tatoos of the fearless

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