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88 GM Box Upgrades. Heads, Cam, Exaust

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    #31
    So the A9P is the one I'll have to go with? And I lose my cruise control with that one right? Not a bad price to pay I suppose if it's just that easy
    Andrew

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      #32
      Originally posted by andrew_mccaffrey View Post
      Ill see about getting the heads ported, not sure how much it costs. will 19# injectors suffice? or are they necessary to keep the AFR stable?

      Does anyone ever use the Explorer ECU? maybe thats a dumb idea...
      too manny changes in wiring and such to use
      Scars are tatoos of the fearless

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        #33
        I would port the heads use a cobra mustang intake and a 60 mm tb 19lb injectors. A first year cobra ECU would work with 25lb injectors but think you loose speed control if your year isnt stand alone been too long for me to remember if that year is stand alone.

        oTHERWISE JUST GO WITH A ho cam 19# injectors and any of the other posters intake suggestions, porting the heads is still good idea.
        Scars are tatoos of the fearless

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          #34
          There is a way to keep the cruise with mass air, but its annoying. You use the Mustang mass air ECM, plus your stock ECM wired to just handle cruise control. Or you convert the cruise to the older stand-alone module. Either way its extra wiring work. The only article I specifically know of that deals with this is here:

          http://www.lincolnsonline.com/tech/00077.html

          Thats the dual ECM method.

          Speed-density can be tuned, but you need to find someone who can do it. it won't deal with boost, but as long as the cam provides reasonable manifold vacuum it can be done. They don't work worth a shit with lumpy cams that don't make vacuum but you don't want to use one of those in something thats a daily driver anyway.
          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

          Originally posted by phayzer5
          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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            #35
            Originally posted by pantera77 View Post
            Mark VII's were all SD IIRC. Don't spend money on porting e7's, have at it yourself, there's a few DIY guides on them out there. Otherwise leave them stock and save up for some heads that actually flow half decent. 19#'s should be enough, the heads will be the choke point.

            Explorers use a completely different ECU, not compatible at all.

            You'll still need a mass air computer for a tune anyways.
            Almost all aftermarket heads flow too much for a 302 unless going all out drags. Best is ported gt40s or dooe heads. If I KNEW ALUMINUM HEADS WERE BETTER FOR A 302 they would already be on my engine. Becides that there are no stock port location intakes that flow better than about 180 190 cfm. I have ported all of them and dont come much closer to 220 that E7s can flow.
            Scars are tatoos of the fearless

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              #36
              Originally posted by turbo2256b View Post
              Almost all aftermarket heads flow too much for a 302 unless going all out drags. Best is ported gt40s or dooe heads. If I KNEW ALUMINUM HEADS WERE BETTER FOR A 302 they would already be on my engine. Becides that there are no stock port location intakes that flow better than about 180 190 cfm. I have ported all of them and dont come much closer to 220 that E7s can flow.
              Never said he had to go aftermarket, gt40's or p's would be a solid upgrade ever 37's though
              2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
              2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
              2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
              1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

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                #37
                GT 40s ported or E7s with the lunati cam mentioned would still be best ported. Intake a eDDELbrock #7125 with no more than a 65mm TB, first year cobra ECU with 25# injectors. Wire up stand alone speed control. Cobra ECU might even have speed control but never used it if it did when I HAD THE COBRA ecu IN cREAMY .
                Scars are tatoos of the fearless

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                  #38
                  Honestly I'd just stab a HO or Cobra cam in it, throw in a HO SD Mark VII comp. and not worry about it.
                  2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
                  2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
                  2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
                  1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

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                    #39
                    Any progress on this mess? Lol............its kind of hard for the "been there done that" guys to give advice without knowing what you really want to "do" with the car so things kind of wander around in the opinion area.........
                    Rodney Tolleson, me at the track.....future drag box racer!

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                      #40
                      No real progress yet.

                      The heads with rockers. 75mm Intake and throttle body, A9P, 75mm mass air sensor, cam, 24# navigator injectors And 2.5" headers with dual exhaust are all purchased and waiting in the garage. The mustang tuning guys I spoke with quoted me about $500 for the chip and a tune, depending on hours. Right now the plan is to get started on this project the weekend after Thanksgiving.
                      Andrew

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                        #41
                        That cam being 112/108 is not going to have vac issues to mess up speed density but I would go a9 "L" or "P" with the mass air.

                        A really good cam is comps xe258, way better than an ho cam and 1.7's never mind the explorer cams. High lift, low duration, low overlap is where low end power is made on a street driver especially with oem heads that peak flow in the 3000-4000rpm range.

                        19lb injectors can handle any stock ford head/intake combo NA ofcourse. Mine started to lean out past 6000rpm after an all out porting, port aligning, reconstructing of the heads/lower/upper/75mm tb/ tapered 4"-3-1/4" cold air pipe with a turning vane and more tricks. 19lb injecters can do quite a bit.

                        Good work with the exhaust choices.

                        For heads, a 160-165cc aluminum head is best for daily driver power, next in line is gt40P, gt40, and HO noticibly furter back. You can never have to much flow, however the larger the port cc, the higher the powerband will be. Porting heads isn't worth it unless you really know what you're doing... only 1 way to get exerience is try. Both for power and for strength of the port walls. But Port aligning is never mentioned, it can be easilydone and nets some good gains. Loose bolt down your heads than do the same with the lower intake, it can slide about 1/8 back and forth for closest alignment but a look down the runners will show ledges to dremel down so the head ports are flush or a hair set in from the lower's port edges. I mark the head/intake/and gasket best alightment on the motor than take it apart, lightly superglue the gasket to the head or intake, and port match the intake 1/32 smaller, and the head 1/32 larger than the gasket port.

                        I would definetly recomend explorer upper and lower intakes, I will post within the next few days with pics of the in's and outs to porting them, there is much to be gained from already good pieces that a 1st timer can usually manage quite well.

                        You can't go to big on filter/intake pipe/tb/egr. Sizing starts it's role at the mouth of the intake runners.
                        I went with a performance products cheep 75mm tb and the lever flips right over perfect to work on our drivers side setup, smoothed out the tunnel and thinned the blade post/screws, and adjusted the full throttle position the have the blade EXACTLY straight... Air speeds can hit 200mph, stick your hand out the window at that speed and tilt it 1/2* to see just how much energy air uses on you hand lol. We start with 14.7psi atmospheric pressure, than every little bend/friction/bump and turn takes a little bite out of that on the way to the cylinder.
                        I got a fire really cooking out back and melted some aluminum down, poured it in the voids in the egr spacer than milled it flat afterwards to essentially make a solid egr spacer. You can also just go buy a solid stang spacer. I bored it to 76mm. Than I just drilled and tapped the firewall side to mount the throttle bracket to. It's easy enough.

                        The a9p computer with a ho or explorer setup works perfect, even with the higher LIFT aftermarket cams, you don't need to get it tuned. I went through with the half day $600 dyno tune stuff expecting my missmatch of parts to need it, gained 1hp. A/F ratios, spark, and all the drivebility aspects, mileage were perfect to start with. This was with a 75mm cobra maf sensor.
                        Finally have an on the books porting/custom fab business!
                        HO bottom end,GT40Ps,cut/welded/ported upper+lower GT40 intakes,Comp XE258 cam,MS3X megasquirt computer,8 LS2 coils,2 dry systems + a 3rd wet,3 core rad w fans..1100hp Lentech WR AOD,custom 4" aluminum/moly Dshaft,custom rear/back half chassis adjustable 4link,wilwood 4 piston,moser 9" axles,locker, M/T 30x12's,4 staged fuel pumps,100lbs sound insulation,power/remote everything,2000W sound.4480lbs. 4.5s 0-60,12.8 1/4

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                          #42
                          Thanks for the info! good to know about the tuning. we'll see how mine turns out.

                          First step is complete! Took everything apart this afternoon with the help of a friend. I will start clean up and reconstruction tomorrow morning. Here is a time lapse of everything coming off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckn1...ature=youtu.be
                          Andrew

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                            #43
                            Looking good!
                            Rodney Tolleson, me at the track.....future drag box racer!

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                              #44
                              So everything is back together and it started up first try, but it wanted to idle at (im guessing) 3500 rpms!
                              Click image for larger version

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                              i know the pic shows the MAF and ECU not wired up. It is now.

                              It smelled pretty strong of gas and it would only start at wide open throttle. So I thought maybe it was running to rich from the 24# injectors so I put in the 17#'s and I am able to start it with out using the throttle and adjust the idle to a decently low level, but it will only start with the MAF unplugged. When I plugged in the MAF it revs up and down (maybe trying to learn and adjust) then it usually dies, a few times it was able to idle for an extended period of time, but when i shut it off and tried to restart it, it wont idle. I tried to take it for a test drive down the block with the MAF unplugged (since thats the only way it will idle), it still seems like its running super rich and it completely lacks power. like full throttle goes 0-35 in 60 seconds slow.
                              When i check the timing, without the jumper I sit around 12 deg. When I plug the jumper back in, which in my understanding allows the computer to adjust the timing, it tries to advance it crazy amounts. its inconsistent but generally past the last measured markings over the "BTC" engravings on the balancer.
                              Also, I deleted the EGR which I know will cause it to run more richly, but I wouldnt think it could cause this much trouble.

                              My thoughts on this and the order I plan on checking things, let me know if im on the right track or not.
                              -because of the obvious smell of fuel and the fact the computer is trying to advance the timing so much. its running extremely rich
                              -I will start with MAF checking voltages and cleaning the MAF as it was a junkyard pick and could be bad. plus its the only thing that seems to create change plugged in or not.
                              -then I will make an EGR jumper to show as closed to the computer. found a diagram online on how to make one with a few resistors.
                              -then check all other sensors for voltage output and resistance (I read about a guy with an F-150 who had a fouled temp sensor and he said the signal it was returning to the ECU was telling it that it was -40 degrees outside and it was dumping fuel (this seems highly unlikely)
                              -I think that the complete gutlessness of the car is being cause by compounding factors. One, its running soo rich its getting crappy combustion; and two, the computer is F-ing with the timing so much because of the rich condition that its completely screwing up any chance of power.
                              -I have already checked for vacuum leaks and made sure to plug all of the no longer needed hoses, but if I can get it to idle reliably for a good period of time I will check the vacuum with a gauge.
                              -Multiple times already I have checked and double checked that I have the New HO firing order wired up, I will inevitably recheck through out this process.
                              -I have ordered a code reader, should arrive monday. then i will check for codes.

                              Thanks for the help! this stuff is fun, but confusing.
                              Last edited by andrew_mccaffrey; 12-06-2014, 06:23 AM. Reason: bad pic upload, now fixed
                              Andrew

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                                #45
                                +1 bad maf or wiring backwards.

                                Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                                rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                                Originally posted by gadget73
                                ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                                Originally posted by dmccaig
                                Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

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