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Thread: Parking Brake doesn't work SOMETIMES (works worse on hills/in drive)

  1. #21
    I post a lot... porschpow's Avatar
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    is your car has rear discs (lincoln), how would you adjust the rear e brakes?
    "To Find yourself, you must first lose yourself"

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  2. #22
    I post a lot... pantera77's Avatar
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    Slot on the back side of the backing plate.

    Pull the rotors off first and make sure the shoes are still intact and the adjuster actually adjust.

  3. #23
    I post a lot... porschpow's Avatar
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    Sorry to re-hash an old thread, but:

    I thought the adjuster for the parking brake is in the cable under the drivers side rear passenger?

    You have to remove the friggin axle shaft to do the shoes?!?! WTF I saw a few people here that said they could get around that how exactly????
    "To Find yourself, you must first lose yourself"

    -1973 Volkswagen Bus Westy
    -1986 Honda Magna 700cc
    -1989 Lincoln Town car Signature Series
    -2011 Subaru Outback

  4. #24
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    The adjuster on the backing plate sets the initial position of the shoes, and will compensate for wear. Its basically a jack screw that pushes the bottom of the shoes apart.

    If you've never looked at your axles or changed the diff oil, you're due for that if the parking brake shoes actually need to be changed. They should never actually wear out unless you drive around and use them to slow down.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    book procedure calls for pulling the axle. no idea how you'd get them in there without doing it. no room to work. people claim to have done it, but i cant see how.
    I don’t know much about year-to-year variability, but on my 2000 MGM, there’s plenty of room to remove/install the parking brake stuff with the axles in place.

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    (Yes, I cleaned the oil off the friction material on the brake shoes.)

    The pins through the back plate on mine are round to the tip, so it’s just a matter of getting them through the brake shoe retainer clips and locking them into place. (Apparently at some point, Ford flattened the ends of the pins, and those need to be turned a quarter turn to lock them into place.) The adjuster and its spring go easy enough. The ‘big’ problem is the pivot pieces and their spring.

    If the pivot pieces aren’t seized, it’s still easy. You can turn the top one kind of like closing scissors so that they come out despite the axle hub. For the spring, you need small needlenose vice grips and some trial and error (preferably in good lighting), but it goes. (Ford apparently changed that particular spring at some point, but its pretty much the same process.) I had the adjusters around their shortest length at this stage, though I'm not sure whether the geometry makes that necessary. The ‘big’ problem is getting the pivot pieces out if they're seized (which they probably will be if there’s a problem).

    I ended up using Liquid Wrench and tapping the top piece back and forth until they loosened enough to close the ‘scissors’ sufficiently. It was basically a matter of using regular vice grips to clamp the bottom piece to the retainer mount underneath and, depending on direction, tapping the top piece with a hammer on the outside (where the cable connects) or with a hammer and screwdriver on the inside. Since this ends up being a one-directional process due to sliding in the other direction, the vice grips had to go from side to side. It took me a heckuva long time even after I was getting movement, but once you see movement, you should be able to get it eventually. Unfortunately, the pivot pieces were not part of the hardware kit that I had on hand (but didn’t need), so I had to clean and grease the old ones.

    As I understand it (though feel free to correct me), the brake shoes should be adjusted so they’re at or close to the point of dragging slightly on the drum. In my case, the adjuster required an additional ~1/4" from its original length to get to that point, so I guess the a**hole at Crappy Tire who worked on it before (and charged me the axle removal price without removing the axles) didn’t set things up properly (and presumably didn’t lube the pivot pieces). This is one of the reasons that I prefer DIY.

    The whole parking brake system is so messed up that I’ve lost all respect for Ford for putting it into production (not to mention the idiotic placement of the tops of the rear shocks that they didn’t change until 2003). Even when you get the parking brakes installed, you still have to fight with the cables to connect them. I somehow managed to figure out how to get enough slack by engaging and releasing the pedal and using a screwdriver in the cable ends to ‘push out’ enough cable. On the passenger side, I got the cable started on the lever piece and was able to push the cable back into the sheath enough by hand to get the end of the cable to sit right on the lever piece. On the driver’s side, I got the cable started on the lever piece but had to resort to using the pedal to pull the cable back in to get the end to sit right on the lever piece.

    After all of that fuckery, there is still the need to adjust the cable connector spring contraption near the rear driver’s side wheel. As I understand it (and again feel free to correct me), you pull the clip out so it doesn’t engage the rod with the grooves, you press the pedal down, and then use the brake release. Apparently this process magically results in the rod with the grooves being in the right position for putting the clip back in. After I did this, the pedal barely moved down to engage, so I moved the clip a bit to get a small amount of pedal travel.

    I haven’t actually tried it, since I finished way late and was in too much agony. One issue I had on the driver’s side was that after setting the adjuster on the driver's side so that I could get the drum on, it later seemed that the drum was not fully seated on the axle hub. When I was tightening down the wheel, it seemed like a crusty inner ridge was being forced over the brake shoes. Hopefully that will just wear down in due course.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    The adjuster on the backing plate sets the initial position of the shoes, and will compensate for wear. Its basically a jack screw that pushes the bottom of the shoes apart.

    If you've never looked at your axles or changed the diff oil, you're due for that if the parking brake shoes actually need to be changed. They should never actually wear out unless you drive around and use them to slow down.
    If you meant that the adjuster is the self-adjusting type, it's not. You set the initial position, and the spring keeps it from moving. As you said, the shoes shouldn't actually wear if used only for parking, so there's no need for self-adjustment. The cable adjuster is presumably for stretch in the cables.
    Last edited by IPreferDIY; 07-07-2018 at 11:32 AM.

    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
    mods: air filter box "tuba" (in place of the "trumpet"), headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, NKL4 PCM (from a 2000 CVPI, nothing great there)

  6. #26
    BANNED! sxcpotatoes's Avatar
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    Does this also apply for '97-ish disc rear axles? Because that's what I got put under the Mark VI and it'd be nice to have a working parking brake sometime in the future.
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  7. #27
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    yep, same stuff.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  8. #28
    No mean-spiritedness here. IPreferDIY's Avatar
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    So far, so good. No obvious dragging, and by pressing the pedal hard enough, I can get the car to stay on a roughly 20-30 degree slope in neutral. Not sure yet if I'll keep using pieces of 4x4 on the sloped driveway. Considering that I rarely get the tires square with the wood, will the tires mind sitting against wood for prolonged periods?

    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
    mods: air filter box "tuba" (in place of the "trumpet"), headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, NKL4 PCM (from a 2000 CVPI, nothing great there)

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by IPreferDIY View Post
    ... As I understand it (though feel free to correct me), the brake shoes should be adjusted so they’re at or close to the point of dragging slightly on the drum. ...
    I ended up getting a DVD with a bunch of service manuals on it. Apparently the genuine Ford ones have an expiry date that requires a BIOS clock change or some other trickery to get it to function properly, but mine doesn't, so I guess someone pieced together a bunch of them in a usuable format. Anyhoo, the 2002 manual says "Use a brake adjusting gauge to set the rear brake shoe and lining diameter to 0.5 mm (0.020 in.) less than the inside diameter of the drum portion of the brake disc."

    Quote Originally Posted by IPreferDIY View Post
    ... to adjust the cable connector spring contraption near the rear driver’s side wheel. As I understand it (and again feel free to correct me), you pull the clip out so it doesn’t engage the rod with the grooves, you press the pedal down, and then use the brake release. Apparently this process magically results in the rod with the grooves being in the right position for putting the clip back in. ...
    I got that one wrong. Here's a paraphrasing of what the 2002 manual says:

    Release the brake, pull the clip out to allow the spring to take up the slack, push the clip back in, "Apply the parking brake control with 556 N (125 lb) foot-pedal effort and release using the parking brake release handle" (but wait 20 minutes before releasing if new cables), pull the clip out to allow the spring to take up the slack, push the clip back in.

    I'll have to re-do mine. What I've been getting is the driver's side often not wanting to release without some enouragement in the form of putting my foot on the gas (though it doesn't drag after that).

    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
    mods: air filter box "tuba" (in place of the "trumpet"), headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, NKL4 PCM (from a 2000 CVPI, nothing great there)

  10. #30
    No mean-spiritedness here. IPreferDIY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IPreferDIY View Post
    I ended up getting a DVD with a bunch of service manuals on it. ...
    While there's no expiry date issue, I still have to leave the DVD in the drive. I would presume there's a way around that, but I'm not in a rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    book procedure calls for pulling the axle. ...
    I should note that the 2002 service manual says nothing about pulling the axles. Here's the list of steps (with surplusage removed):

    Removal
    1. [after a warning about air suspension] Raise and support the vehicle.
    2. Remove the tire and wheel assembly.
    3. Remove the brake disc.
    4. Remove the brake shoe adjusting screw springs.
    5. Remove the brake shoe adjustment screw.
    6. Remove the brake shoe hold down springs.
    7. Remove the parking brake shoe and linings.
    8. Inspect the components for excessive wear or damage, and install new components as required.

    Installation
    1. Follow the removal procedure in reverse order [with notes about lubrication, shoe adjustment, and cable adjustment].

    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
    mods: air filter box "tuba" (in place of the "trumpet"), headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, NKL4 PCM (from a 2000 CVPI, nothing great there)

  11. #31
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    They've gotten cheaper with the labor allowed. I still think its a good idea to remove the axles on a car old enough to need parking brake shoes to allow for diff oil change and an axle inspection. Others may ignore that as they will, but having experienced a rear axle bearing failure in the middle of nowhere, I can tell you its not on my to-do list of repeat adventures.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  12. #32
    No mean-spiritedness here. IPreferDIY's Avatar
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    My big concern is with people getting ripped off like I did. The big clue for me when I had my parking brake shoes replaced at Crappy Tire should have been the lack of a separate price for fresh fluid under the price for the brake parts. For people who need someone else to mess around with the parking brakes, if someone tells you they have to remove the axles, either make sure they do it if the diff fluid is due for a change or tell them you know perfectly well that it's not necessary and go elsewhere if they won't give you a decent price.

    How many miles had your bearing seen?

    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
    mods: air filter box "tuba" (in place of the "trumpet"), headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, NKL4 PCM (from a 2000 CVPI, nothing great there)

  13. #33
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    This was Scott's car but it was right around the 200k point when it failed completely. My car needed axles around 150k. They weren't quite to the point of failure but there were pits in the axle shaft that pointed towards needing attention. Its really the axles more than the bearings. Once that case hard outer layer on the axle shaft starts to separate from the steel underneath it goes pretty quick.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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