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    #16
    Originally posted by pantera77 View Post
    ...So Grand Marq's had their own separate frames all the way till 92'. Interesting.
    Looked at some side shots on the '88-'91 MGMs and LTDCVs, the header panel was still longer on Grand Marquis than LTD Crown Victoria. Because of that, the bumper is also still out ever so further.

    Sure is an interesting find; nice work Pantera.


    My Cars:
    -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
    -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

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      #17
      Originally posted by pantera77 View Post


      Also, wagon rear doors are they same as sedans, but the window frames are shorter on a wagon.
      so they are different, but not how I thought they were. I knew there was something different there.
      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

      Originally posted by phayzer5
      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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        #18
        I wonder how many different frames total there were for boxes.

        79-91 GM Sedan + Tudor
        79-91 GM/CP wagon
        79-91 CV Sedan + Tudor
        79-91 CV/CS wagon
        79-91 CVPI

        And that makes me wonder, since there was a police option GM, if it got it's own PI spec frame like CV's did.

        And then there's the Lincoln's, but I have no clue on those.
        Last edited by pantera77; 12-10-2014, 06:52 PM.
        2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
        2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
        2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
        1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

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          #19
          I've heard it claimed that tow package cars got special thicker frames too. No clue if this is true or not. I've never had a sample size or the inclination to take micrometer readings on the frame in various places to see if anything checked out. I have a tow package car and can take measurements if anyone wants them.

          Lincolns should have 2 frames, the Mark VI coupe and the 4 doors. I don't rightly know what the 2 door Continental or Town Coupe had. It was the longer wheelbase of the 4 door model, but its possible something was different in the middle of the door area with regards to body mounts. I've only ever seen one, and have never been under it. They were only made for 2 years and in small number. It is possible there are minor variations when the bumpers changed in '85 but that shouldn't be anything major.
          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

          Originally posted by phayzer5
          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

          Comment


            #20
            Comparing the 2 Mark VI images the wheels bases for 2 doors and 4 doors look the same.

            Last edited by Mr Bean; 12-11-2014, 12:19 AM.

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              #21
              Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
              I've heard it claimed that tow package cars got special thicker frames too. No clue if this is true or not. I've never had a sample size or the inclination to take micrometer readings on the frame in various places to see if anything checked out. I have a tow package car and can take measurements if anyone wants them.
              I've noted that (at least) '88-'91 police cars have HD stamped on the frame. It is visible through the wheel opening on the passenger's side rear, at the top of the frame arch. Maybe elsewhere as well.
              **2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302: 5.0/ 6 spd/ 3.73s, 20K Cruiser
              **2006 MGM,"Ultimate": 4.6/ 2.73/ Dark Tint, Magnaflows, 19s, 115K Daily Driver
              **2012 Harley Davidson Wide Glide (FXDWG):103/ Cobra Speedsters/ Cosmetics, 9K Poseur HD Rider
              **1976 Ford F-150 4WD: 360, 4 spd, 3.50s, factory A/C, 4" lift, Bilsteins, US Indy Mags, 35s Truck Duties

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                #22
                Originally posted by pantera77 View Post
                I wonder how many different frames total there were for boxes.

                79-91 GM Sedan + Tudor
                79-91 GM/CP wagon
                79-91 CV Sedan + Tudor
                79-91 CV/CS wagon
                79-91 CVPI

                And that makes me wonder, since there was a police option GM, if it got it's own PI spec frame like CV's did.

                And then there's the Lincoln's, but I have no clue on those.
                This is most interesting.
                sigpic


                - 1990 Ford LTD Crown Victoria P72 - the street boat - 5.0 liter EFI - Ported HO intake/TB, 90 TC shroud/overflow, Aero airbox/zip tube, Cobra camshaft, 19lb injectors, dual exhaust w/ Magnaflows, Cat/Smog & AC delete, 3G alternator, MOOG chassis parts & KYB cop shocks, 215/70r/15s on 95-97 Merc rims

                - 2007 Ford Escape XLT - soccer mom lifted station wagon - 3.0 Duratec, auto, rear converter delete w/ Magnaflow dual exhaust

                - 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis Ultimate Edition - Daily driver - 4.6 2 valve Mod motor, 4R75E, 2.73s. Bone stock

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by P72Ford View Post
                  I've noted that (at least) '88-'91 police cars have HD stamped on the frame. It is visible through the wheel opening on the passenger's side rear, at the top of the frame arch. Maybe elsewhere as well.
                  Correct... tow package and fleet/taxi/police vehicles got a heavier frame. "HD" is stamped on the frame in the rear wheel arches. normal production vehicles got a standard frame, "STD" is stamped on the frame in the rear wheel arches.

                  HD frame is thicker material and has more reinforcement points as well has more/heavier welds
                  2003 Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, Dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 9/2011
                  89 Crown Victoria LX HPP -- SOLD 9/2010
                  88 Grand Marquis LS - The Original -- Totaled 5/2006


                  I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E transmissions....Check out my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/North...48414635312478

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                    #24
                    I've wondered whether or not mine has the tow package or is in fact a fleet car, it's got some conflicting options.

                    Is it just on the frame in one wheel arch or in both?
                    sigpic


                    - 1990 Ford LTD Crown Victoria P72 - the street boat - 5.0 liter EFI - Ported HO intake/TB, 90 TC shroud/overflow, Aero airbox/zip tube, Cobra camshaft, 19lb injectors, dual exhaust w/ Magnaflows, Cat/Smog & AC delete, 3G alternator, MOOG chassis parts & KYB cop shocks, 215/70r/15s on 95-97 Merc rims

                    - 2007 Ford Escape XLT - soccer mom lifted station wagon - 3.0 Duratec, auto, rear converter delete w/ Magnaflow dual exhaust

                    - 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis Ultimate Edition - Daily driver - 4.6 2 valve Mod motor, 4R75E, 2.73s. Bone stock

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Town Cars most likely used the same frame configurations as a GMQ coupe/sedan, except with the 3" added in between the wheel arch and b-pillar/center body mount. I know dimensionally my Town Car is the same from the core support to the b-pillar to my GMQ, but there is definitely more rear leg room, trunk is the same.

                      Actually just went out with my measuring stick. Sure as shit, the Town Car has 4" of frame in front of the body mount. The rear is the same as a CV/GMQ sedan/tudor as well, couldn't get a good measurement as the ground is cold and wet and i didn't want to crawl under there, but my '93 CV tailpipes that I had on my '96 GMQ line up perfectly to the Town Car, coming about an inch short at the bumper which is entirely a difference in bumper covers. I'm willing to bet that the measurement between the torque box and center body mount is the same, the front seats seem to be in exactly the same spot in relation to the dash/firewall.

                      Granted these measurements are on a '97 Town Car, but Town Cars changed VERY little between Box and "Aero". Remember, '90s were new body on old frame and even had real metal bumpers.
                      -Steve

                      2006 Audi A6 S-Line FWD ~132k miles, stock.
                      1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~102k miles, slowly acquiring modifications.
                      1997 Lincoln Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust, Cats ran away, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front sway bar, air ride reinstalled, Blinker Mod, Projector headlight retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel, rustbelt diet plan..
                      1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12

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                        #26
                        Nice info, I guess it makes sense they used the extended front frame.
                        2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
                        2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
                        2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
                        1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

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                          #27
                          At least I remembered to take a photo before she left, 1989 mgm front frame horn from the bottom.

                          Alex.
                          Attached Files

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                            #28
                            having worked stap for 34 years this is the frame scoop as I know it. There were 5 frames in use for 1984 to 1991 box panthers that we built.

                            1. The heavy duty police frame.

                            2. Standard CV frame

                            3. CV wagon frame.

                            4. Standard GM frame.

                            5. GM wagon frame.

                            Now the wheel base of all frames is the same, being 114 inches.From the rad mounts to the middle of the rear axle hump the frames look identical.


                            The police and standard CV frames are the same overall length. The CV wagon is about 2inches longer at the back.

                            The standard GM is the same as standard CV frame except for the nose piece in front of the rad mounts. This is the same for the GM wagon as
                            compared to the CV wagon. If you notice the front header piece for the grille, the GM is longer than the CV. This gives the GM the long hood
                            look similar to a towncar. So the extensions on the frame is to push the bumpers out further to be inline with the longer header panel.


                            If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.
                            sigpic
                            79 Bronco XLT 129000kms
                            88 LTD Crown Victoria wagon LX 223000kms
                            03 Expedition XLT 256000kms
                            06 Escape XLT 188000kms
                            09 Focus SE 132000kms
                            13Escape SEL 63000kms

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by alon View Post
                              having worked stap for 34 years this is the frame scoop as I know it. There were 5 frames in use for 1984 to 1991 box panthers that we built.

                              1. The heavy duty police frame.

                              2. Standard CV frame

                              3. CV wagon frame.

                              4. Standard GM frame.

                              5. GM wagon frame.

                              Now the wheel base of all frames is the same, being 114 inches.From the rad mounts to the middle of the rear axle hump the frames look identical.


                              The police and standard CV frames are the same overall length. The CV wagon is about 2inches longer at the back.

                              The standard GM is the same as standard CV frame except for the nose piece in front of the rad mounts. This is the same for the GM wagon as
                              compared to the CV wagon. If you notice the front header piece for the grille, the GM is longer than the CV. This gives the GM the long hood
                              look similar to a towncar. So the extensions on the frame is to push the bumpers out further to be inline with the longer header panel.


                              If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.
                              Was heavy duty only for the police, or was it for other options? Specifically I have a non-towpackage 351W Canadian car. Police brakes, no extra coolers though.

                              Also, does anyone have any specifics on where the extra bracing was for the police frames? It might make a good starting point for people wanting to stiffen stuff up.

                              85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                              160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                              waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                              06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

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                                #30
                                I know for one they have an extra brace at the front and rear of the frame, which all 92+ have
                                2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
                                2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
                                2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
                                1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

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