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    Frame Lenghts?

    I have read conflicting info on wagon frame lengths so I did some measuring. The frame on my 87 Colony Park is about 4 inches longer then my 89 CV and 91 CV wagon. Both vic's come in at roughly 16ft, but the CP is about 4 inches longer.

    Now, on a STAP tour a few years ago, I was chatting with an employe with a CV wagon who had worked there for many many years (he's actually a member here too IIRC), and he mentioned to me how sometimes a CV wagon or Country Squire would end up on a GM wagon or Colony park frame, or vice versa. This would lead to the header panels not fitting right because the CP/GM wagon frame is ~4" longer in the front. Now I always thought that made no sense, but sure enough, I just measured it, and from the front most steering gear box bolt to the front of the frame is ~21" on the CP, and ~18" on the vic's. I'd have to assume this only effects 79-87 GM's, but wouldn't that mean the sedans/tudors are longer too? I'm 99% sure they are not, so why is the wagon frame longer in the front? As far as I can tell both of my Vic's frame, wagon and sedan are the same length, the wagon just has more overhang out back.
    2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
    2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
    2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
    1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

    #2
    Which part is longer? Are the front rad support mounts 2 inches forward?

    Comment


      #3
      Isn't the wheelbase different too ? I could have sworn the wagon frames were 3" longer wheelbase, just like the Towncar is.
      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

      Originally posted by phayzer5
      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Mr Bean View Post
        Which part is longer? Are the front rad support mounts 2 inches forward?
        I wouldn't think the rad support is different. Aren't GM and CV fenders the same? The rad support has to be the same between them. From the very tip of the frame (where the bumper shocks mount) to the first bolt on the gearbox is definitely longer.

        Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
        Isn't the wheelbase different too ? I could have sworn the wagon frames were 3" longer wheelbase, just like the Towncar is.
        I'll have to do some more measuring tomorrow. I've never paid attention to frame length's before.
        2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
        2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
        2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
        1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by pantera77 View Post
          I wouldn't think the rad support is different. Aren't GM and CV fenders the same? The rad support has to be the same between them. From the very tip of the frame (where the bumper shocks mount) to the first bolt on the gearbox is definitely longer.
          How can that be though? If fenders are the same then that section also has to be the same, no?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Mr Bean View Post
            How can that be though? If fenders are the same then that section also has to be the same, no?
            I know, that's why I'm confused. I think must be because the header panel is longer.
            2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
            2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
            2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
            1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

            Comment


              #7
              If the header panel is longer, and we know the bumper doesn't protrude a noticeably different amount, there'd have to be a frame difference, no? What have people done or had issues with when swapping from GM to CV header panels?

              85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
              160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
              waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

              06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

              Comment


                #8
                The front doors forward are the same on wagons as sedans. The only different metal between a GM and a 79-87 Vic is the hood. The GM and 88-91 Vic used the same hood, the early Vic has it's own hood. I'm reasonably sure the rear doors on wagons are not the same as a sedan though, which is why I was thinking they had a longer wheelbase.
                86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                Originally posted by phayzer5
                I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                Comment


                  #9
                  this makes sense sorta, the shooting brake supposedly has a town car hearse frame under it.

                  1986 lincoln towncar signature series. 5.0 HO with thumper performance ported e7 heads, 1.7 roller rockers, warm air intake, 65mm throttle body, 1/2" intake spacer, ported intakes, 3.73 rear with trac lock, 98-02 front brake conversion, 92-97 rear disc conversion, 1" rear swaybar, 1 3/16" front swaybar, 16" wheels and tires, loud ass stereo system, badass cb, best time to date 15.94 at 87 mph. lots of mods in the works 221.8 rwhp 278 rwt
                  2006 Lincoln Town Car Signature. Stock for now
                  1989 Ford F-250 4x4 much much more to come, sefi converted so far.
                  1986 Toyota pickup with LSC wheels and 225/60/16 tires.
                  2008 Hyundai Elantra future Revcon toad
                  1987 TriBurner and 1986 Alaska stokers keeping me warm. (and some pesky oil heat)

                  please be patient, rebuilding an empire!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ok, finally measured and took some pics.

                    Wagon frames are longer than Sedan frames by ~2" out back.

                    79-87 GM frames are ~4" longer in the front. I'm assuming 88-91 GM frames are the same as 88-91 CV frames.

                    Sedan and Tudor frames are the same.

                    Aero and box frames are the same.




                    Here's what the front end of the frame looks like on a 85 CV tudor, 89 CV sedan, 91 CV wagon, 92 CV and an 04 CV in that order. Note the body mount is pretty much at the end of the frame.











                    Now, compare this to an 87 CP. I can only assume all 79-87 GM/CP's have this setup. The body mount is in the same place, but the end of the frame is ~4" longer to where the bumper mounts.





                    Now, the back of the frame. 85 CV tudor, 89 CV sedan, 92 CV, 04 CV. Note it's about 27.5" from the rear of the frame to the rear most body mount.







                    Now a 91 CV wagon. About 30" from the end of the frame to the body mount. The 87 CP was the same, forgot to take a pic though.







                    Also, wagon rear doors are they same as sedans, but the window frames are shorter on a wagon.
                    2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
                    2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
                    2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
                    1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Interesting. I just compared your pic of 87' CP to my 85' tudor frame and it is also longer in the front. I wonder if all pre 87' GMQs had the 4" extension in the front.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Mr Bean View Post
                        Interesting. I just compared your pic of 87' CP to my 85' tudor frame and it is also longer in the front. I wonder if all pre 87' GMQs had the 4" extension in the front.
                        I can only assume so. I find it weird Ford went through the trouble to give early Grand Marq's an entirely different frame.

                        Can anyone with a 88-91 GM or CP check the front of their frame?
                        2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
                        2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
                        2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
                        1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

                        Comment


                          #13
                          How did guys install 88-91 front ends on 79-97 Merks? If the frames are longer, how did the bumpers line up?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I can't find a pic, but I'm certain my '89 mgm has the extended front frame. I'll try to remember to take a pic tommorow in day light.

                            Alex.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              You guys are right, in this pic of my 91 GM you can see it has the extended front. So Grand Marq's had their own separate frames all the way till 92'. Interesting.

                              2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
                              2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
                              2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
                              1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

                              Comment

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