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poly vs. rubber control arm bushings

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    #1

    poly vs. rubber control arm bushings

    I need at least one ball joint as well as to replace my super-toasted front bushings.

    Does anyone have any input about the idea of buying new control arms complete and then burning out the new bushings to put polys in? Is there a good or bad brand for these among what's on rockauto?

    I have the other chassis parts to somewhat justify poly bushings. Cop swaybars, wide tires, will be putting in boxed rear arms and 4 cop shocks at the same time. I'm just weighing new arms and poly bushings vs. Doing the ball joints and poly bushings on the original front arms. Or even just doing new stock-bushing arms and calling it a day.

    85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
    160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
    waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

    06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)
    Tags: None
    #2
    From what I've learned the hard way, I would say new loaded arms is the only way to go.
    And that the cheap ones are cheap for a reason, moog is still ok, though they are no longer made in the US I think?
    As for bushings, I always use what the factory put in, which is rubber. I don't like the squeaking of poly.
    And OEM is good enough for me.
    But I know poly is suppose to be better so it's your choice.

    Comment

      #3
      Grease it enough and the poly doesn't squeak. Mine have been in something like 7 years now and its not noisy. It is harsher than the rubber, but not so much that I find it objectionable on a panther.
      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

      Originally posted by phayzer5
      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

      Comment

        #4
        I bought new control arms, but only because the ball joint holes were egged out. If your arms are in good shape, no reason to not reuse them and save some money.

        If you want to go poly or not is up to you, I've never had a problem with the poly bushings on my one car, but for the winter wagon and tudor I just bought new loaded arms to put in.
        2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
        2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
        2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
        1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

        Comment

          #5
          Is there a way to tell if the holes are weak or egged out while assembled? They're rust-pitted and the bushings are basically in pieces. Can running with really toast bushing ruin the arms or shells?

          85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
          160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
          waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

          06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

          Comment

            #6
            Ride quality is one of those things that's beyond me unless it's extreme, so I have no idea about poly vs. stock. If you go poly, then +1 for reusing the arms if they're in good shape. I can't really offer anything with respect to what qualifies as good shape at the moment, other than the outer shells of the bushings should not have obvious damage and the arms should not be bent. Since polys require you to burn the rubber out of the old bushing shells, I don't see the point of wasting new bushings if you don't need to.

            If you go with stock bushings, complete arms is the easy and cost-effective way to go for most people. I didn't know any better and ended up replacing just the joints and bushings on my front upper and lower control arms. The stock bushings were a big PITA to get out (although now that's its been done once, the next time should be a lot easier).

            Here's a description of the process for my 2000 MGM from memory for those who might want to know. It's probably next to useless without pics, but...

            One end of each of the outer shells of the lower control arm bushings is squashed into place so they stay in position. You have to cut or grind off the squashed part before you can even push the bushings out. And since you want to press on the outer shell rather than the rubber or the inner part that pushes on the rubber, you pretty much have to cut right through the bushing. I just used a hack saw to cut through the outer shell and rubber. I did the outer half with the blade in the normal down position and the inner half with the blade facing up. The center metal part is most likely hardened since it wouldn't cut worth a damn, so I used a grinder to cut off the end cap on the end I was pressing (I think only one of the two stock bushings in the lower control arms has the end cap on the side you need to press against). I used a ball joint press in a creative manner to press the bushings out and in. You have to be careful about not bending the arms when pressing the bushings out and in.

            For the upper arm bushings, there was no squashed part, but I took off the end caps on one end with a grinder and again had to get creative with either a ball joint press or a special upper control arm bushing press. The adapter from the latter that fit only pressed against one side of the arm, which created a risk of bending the arms. I put a rod on each side of the bushing so I could use a regular press piece to push against the rods. There didn't seem to be anything that tells you when the new bushings are at the right depth on the upper arms, so I just measured how far they'd gone in.

            People with access to a shop press and better tools might have an easier method for pressing the bushings out and in.
            Last edited by IPreferDIY; 02-08-2015, 06:26 PM.

            2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
            mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

            Comment

              #7
              pressing the bushings out of the late arms sucks, it REALLY sucks on the early stamped arms though. They have that cross shaft in there, and the arms are prone to folding up unless you wedge bits of angle iron in there for bracing.
              86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
              5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

              91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

              1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

              Originally posted by phayzer5
              I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                pressing the bushings out of the late arms sucks, it REALLY sucks on the early stamped arms though. They have that cross shaft in there, and the arms are prone to folding up unless you wedge bits of angle iron in there for bracing.
                +1 for using some kind of bracing. I resorted to hammering back at least two minor bends on mine, but bracing is something I would definitely use next time.

                2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
                mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

                Comment

                  #9
                  Bumping with another question:

                  Lets say I wanted to go as high performance/stiff as I could behind a 15" wheel, what would I get? Is there any factory upgrade that doesn't need the big brake swap? I'm finding full control arms for 91s but not 85's, which makes no sense to me. Are there any differences? Can I go to a 92-97 with any benefit?


                  I've pretty much decided on poly bushings even with new arms, but I'm trying to determine what I can do for performance beyond that. Stiffer shocks and springs will happen at the same time. I'm considering boxing the arms, but if there's a factory or custom alternative I wanna hear it.

                  85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                  160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                  waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                  06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                  Comment

                    #10
                    If you go 92-97 you get the benefit of knock off rotors and sealed wheel bearings. Lower arms are pretty much identical 79-02, just the steering stop changed. Those lower arms are pretty beefy, I can't really imagine them needing to be boxed.
                    2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
                    2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
                    2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
                    1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

                    Comment

                      #11
                      rear box control arms can be fabbed to tubular, and limo springs in the ass end, which i swear by them. now i need to find another set....
                      89 townie, mild exhuast up grades, soon to have loud ass stereo....

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by pantera77 View Post
                        If you go 92-97 you get the benefit of knock off rotors and sealed wheel bearings. Lower arms are pretty much identical 79-02, just the steering stop changed. Those lower arms are pretty beefy, I can't really imagine them needing to be boxed.
                        Yeah, that doesn't sound worthwhile, since the front brakes are all<5000km.




                        Zoomie: the rear is already pretty much figured out. I have boxed lowers and police shocks waitin. Will be going poly bushings. I have cargo coils ready to install but may change that depending on what spring I decide on for the front. Not looking to lower it significantly or give it much of a rake.
                        Last edited by johnunit; 02-22-2015, 08:15 PM.

                        85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                        160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                        waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                        06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                        Comment

                          #13
                          You might want to give some thought to a bit of a rake. I noticed significant results from having an air dam alone, and then not much, if any, added benefit from a rake (on my 2000 MGM with rear air suspension). But, when I took off the air dam for winter, I didn't lose much of the benefits. The rake alone seems to be almost as beneficial as the air dam alone.

                          2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
                          mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

                          Comment

                            #14
                            my townie didnt sit too bad after they settled a bit def dont lower it, but def makes the rear stiff as can be for sure
                            89 townie, mild exhuast up grades, soon to have loud ass stereo....

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by johnunit View Post
                              Bumping with another question:

                              Lets say I wanted to go as high performance/stiff as I could behind a 15" wheel, what would I get? Is there any factory upgrade that doesn't need the big brake swap? I'm finding full control arms for 91s but not 85's, which makes no sense to me. Are there any differences? Can I go to a 92-97 with any benefit?


                              I've pretty much decided on poly bushings even with new arms, but I'm trying to determine what I can do for performance beyond that. Stiffer shocks and springs will happen at the same time. I'm considering boxing the arms, but if there's a factory or custom alternative I wanna hear it.
                              95-97 brakes are a little bigger, and fit behind a 15" wheel. Thats as good as it gets for braking without a wheel upgrade.
                              86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                              5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                              91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                              1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                              Originally posted by phayzer5
                              I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                              Comment

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