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    #46
    I see the lightbulb finally turned on.

    my 88 has a bent frame or lower control arm on the passenger side (or both) and original front springs... it leans to the right by about 3-4 inches up front. New shocks all around (truck shocks in the rear) and cargo coils in the rear... it rides like a smooth truck... firm but not overly harsh... but it still sways in turns just like it always has because I didn't mess with the sway bar. I drive through a dirt section of road construction almost every day. It gets BAD potholes. I typically just bomb though it to keep the ride somewhat level as going slow bounces the car all over the place. It's only about 4 carlenths worth of crap so it's no big deal to me... but the car soaks up the bumps (even in the rear) without much concern even with the sway bar in place. I also took an obnoxious pic of how much flex these things have with the stock sway bar up front and none on the rear (though this was before the rear cargo springs, but should still act as a good example).

    Dat flex yo!




    Now granted, you will get more flex of the front axle without the sway bar, but it will flex under shock load from a pothole with little argument. I can attest to that. I treat this car like a truck and beat on it (and the tires by proxy) relentlessly. It complains not except in worn shocks and tires.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Originally posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Originally posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

    Comment


      #47
      Okay so I won't get into the argument here, but offer a suggestion that no one has mentioned for the heck of it....you can also get the "Heavy Duty" Police/fleet springs. They are stiffer than stock springs, for about the same price.
      -Phil

      sigpic

      +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Holley Sniper EFI, RPM Intake+ Hyperspark dizzy, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

      +2003 Acura CL Type S 6-speed

      Comment


        #48
        tHINK THE op SAID HE ALREADY INSTALLED NEW SHOCKS since he would need different shocks for Waggon overload springs and different shocks for 925 or 1000 lbs front springs the poilce springs front and rear for his year box would be the best bet
        Scars are tatoos of the fearless

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by miamibob View Post
          I think there are some "communication issues" in what the OP wants (which he is probably not sure about)
          This is the jist of it. That and I really don't like being told what to do with what I own after I've done hours looking into it.

          When one party is fully educated and the other is only partially so, communication problems happen. I'm not exactly the most socially apt person out there, either. I apologize.

          Originally posted by GM_Guy View Post
          Heavier springs? Buy some moog police springs 1998 model year.

          But understand that what you are asking for and what you are telling us are contradicting each other.
          ie: like it on rough roads as it is. don't like the wallow when turning. don't want a sway bar. want stiff springs.

          You are asking for things that counter-act each other. You either get yourself a car that rides the logging roads nice, or you get a car that turns nice. The answer to one problem is going to work against you for another. Since you insisted most heavily on turning quality as the problem, you are going to get answers that better suit improoved turning.

          Alex.
          I'm not trying to go entirely one way or the other though, I'm just trying to make a compromise for the sake of overall versatility, and information about specific sizes of sway bars (or the effects of different bars in general) is extremely scarce, so I simply opted to not bother with one.

          I did find some builds that work without sway bars, but they are on things like the MR2 or NSX that are very low to the ground. This is not. I've found that being higher off the ground gives the benefit of letting braking force keep the car straight in a turn, but without a bar it'll swing around at low speeds.

          Stiffer springs would give me the opposite of what I want while barely mitigating the problem. So the best option with the smallest compromise here would be the 1-inch bar.

          Originally posted by sly View Post
          I see the lightbulb finally turned on.

          my 88 has a bent frame or lower control arm on the passenger side (or both) and original front springs... it leans to the right by about 3-4 inches up front. New shocks all around (truck shocks in the rear) and cargo coils in the rear... it rides like a smooth truck... firm but not overly harsh... but it still sways in turns just like it always has because I didn't mess with the sway bar. I drive through a dirt section of road construction almost every day. It gets BAD potholes. I typically just bomb though it to keep the ride somewhat level as going slow bounces the car all over the place. It's only about 4 carlenths worth of crap so it's no big deal to me... but the car soaks up the bumps (even in the rear) without much concern even with the sway bar in place. I also took an obnoxious pic of how much flex these things have with the stock sway bar up front and none on the rear (though this was before the rear cargo springs, but should still act as a good example).

          Dat flex yo!

          Now granted, you will get more flex of the front axle without the sway bar, but it will flex under shock load from a pothole with little argument. I can attest to that. I treat this car like a truck and beat on it (and the tires by proxy) relentlessly. It complains not except in worn shocks and tires.
          This is pretty much the kind of explanation I was looking for. Thanks. That first photo is actually pretty hilarious. You could probably take these things rock climbing if you wanted to. Forget Jeep, this is the true legend of the savanna.

          I'm not worried about the rear because I've got Monroe Max-Airs back there, so I essentially have whatever shocks I want with a simple change in air pressure.

          On a related note, while doing some photographic memory forensics (because I can't fucking sleep), I realized what probably happened to this car before I got it.

          When I removed the old shocks, I noticed that they were both dented on one side, and that the passenger wheel well was slightly warped to the right. I didn't notice this until I realized I couldn't get vice grips in the same place on the driver's side as I could on the passenger side. Also, the driver's side shock was locked stiff while the passenger's could be fully compressed by its own weight.

          That, coupled with the fact that the dash is about an inch lower on the driver's side, the sway bar is missing, and the fan clutch was removed, leads me to believe this was involved in a pretty nasty collision at some point, most likely to the driver's side fender. It probably caused the sway bar to bend or break and the owner simply removed it.

          Originally posted by Brown_Muscle View Post
          Okay so I won't get into the argument here, but offer a suggestion that no one has mentioned for the heck of it....you can also get the "Heavy Duty" Police/fleet springs. They are stiffer than stock springs, for about the same price.
          Originally posted by turbo2256b View Post
          tHINK THE op SAID HE ALREADY INSTALLED NEW SHOCKS since he would need different shocks for Waggon overload springs and different shocks for 925 or 1000 lbs front springs the poilce springs front and rear for his year box would be the best bet
          Yes, I put in a pair of Gabriel Ultras for the front. They work great, but without a bar, the swing is much more noticable. Before I replaced them, there was no swing turning left, because the driver's side shock was locked in place.

          The stock spring rate is 374, while the police is 710. That's likely quite a bit too harsh for my liking. The 925 and 1000 are made specifically for dedicated track racing applications, which have no bumps to speak of. They'd be laughably out of place with drum brakes, too.

          I did find a pair of 415 rate springs, but I'll see what kind of results the 1 inch bar gives before I decide on that.

          Well, I actually found two, and I have no idea what the difference is between them. They have different part numbers but the information is identical.

          http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-cs8598/overview
          http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-cs8600/overview
          Last edited by ootdega; 03-01-2015, 08:57 AM.
          89 Grand Marquis GS.

          Putting it here because I keep forgetting to mention it. It's not very exciting at the moment.

          Comment


            #50
            doesn't seem to be any difference between them... one listing is probably older stock and the other is a very slight model revision (like new equipment making the same old spring or something). The only difference I see is the $1 in price.

            Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
            rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
            Originally posted by gadget73
            ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
            Originally posted by dmccaig
            Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

            Comment


              #51
              the police 710# springs are for the later model panthers, the 415 is for the box police cars. I will say they are noticeably stiffer than the civilian springs, without compromising much ride quality. I'm interested in the difference the 1 inch bar makes over no bars as well. Please keep us updated.
              -Phil

              sigpic

              +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Holley Sniper EFI, RPM Intake+ Hyperspark dizzy, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

              +2003 Acura CL Type S 6-speed

              Comment


                #52
                Keep what you have done so far just go around corners slower.
                Scars are tatoos of the fearless

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by sly View Post
                  doesn't seem to be any difference between them... one listing is probably older stock and the other is a very slight model revision (like new equipment making the same old spring or something). The only difference I see is the $1 in price.
                  I figured as much, but after having to look up the MOOG spring .pdf to figure out their spring rates, I was a little doubtful.

                  Originally posted by Brown_Muscle View Post
                  the police 710# springs are for the later model panthers, the 415 is for the box police cars. I will say they are noticeably stiffer than the civilian springs, without compromising much ride quality. I'm interested in the difference the 1 inch bar makes over no bars as well. Please keep us updated.
                  Will do. If I'm not fully satisfied then it sounds like the 415s will do the trick. Thanks.

                  Originally posted by turbo2256b View Post
                  Keep what you have done so far just go around corners slower.
                  Well the problem isn't going around corners quickly. I can do it quickly more comfortably than slowly, because braking into the corner lets the braking force keep the car planted. Slower speed means less braking force applied and thus more swing. At parking lot speeds that means I'm actually accelerating around turns and that's when it gets ridiculous.
                  89 Grand Marquis GS.

                  Putting it here because I keep forgetting to mention it. It's not very exciting at the moment.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    I'm running the 1350# springs and the Carrera circle track shocks on my 97 and they could still be stiffer
                    http://secondhandracing.com/Home.aspx
                    http://secondhandradio.com/

                    R.I.P. Jason P Harrill 6-12-06

                    http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?t=5634

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by sly View Post
                      doesn't seem to be any difference between them... one listing is probably older stock and the other is a very slight model revision (like new equipment making the same old spring or something). The only difference I see is the $1 in price.
                      Free lenghts are different one is for fox bodys one for CV

                      Also going over bumps pot holes speed bumps fast may feel better to you but will realy stress tires, wheels, frame, bushings ball joints steering componets , etc.
                      Last edited by turbo2256b; 03-02-2015, 01:16 PM.
                      Scars are tatoos of the fearless

                      Comment


                        #56
                        So you're saying you don't have any front sway bar in your car?

                        One of these?
                        Click image for larger version

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                        If you want, I have my old stock bar floating around that I've been thinking about just throwing out. If you want it, you can have it. (Just have to pay shipping)

                        '78 LTD | '87 Grand Marquis | '89 Crown Vic (RIP) | '91 Grand Marquis (RIP) | '94 Town Car (RIP) | '97 Town Car (RIP)

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by DuceAnAHalf View Post
                          I'm running the 1350# springs and the Carrera circle track shocks on my 97 and they could still be stiffer
                          Do you know what the qa1 equivalent to those shocks is? Any shocks you can compare them to as far as stiffness?

                          85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                          160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                          waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                          06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                          Comment


                            #58
                            I don't know, they are listed in the suspension parts sticky
                            http://secondhandracing.com/Home.aspx
                            http://secondhandradio.com/

                            R.I.P. Jason P Harrill 6-12-06

                            http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?t=5634

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by slack View Post
                              So you're saying you don't have any front sway bar in your car?

                              One of these?
                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]42026[/ATTACH]

                              If you want, I have my old stock bar floating around that I've been thinking about just throwing out. If you want it, you can have it. (Just have to pay shipping)
                              Yeah, about that...







                              ...I'm an idiot.

                              I finally decided to stop being stubborn and actually look under it again. I just didn't know what it looked like before, to be honest.

                              But...there it is. I grabbed it and yanked it around, it's in there solid as can be. Looks exactly like the one you've got, which means it isn't even stock. The bushings are still good too, which means they were replaced, so I was probably right about the collision thing.

                              I greatly appreciate the offer, and I would've gladly taken you up on it, had I not been an absolute moron to begin with.



                              ...Anyway, I drove it today and it drives just fine everywhere except the one turn into my parking lot. That's where the "half-conscious hippo" analogy came from, because it's the last turn I make before I get out.

                              The reason for it is the road at that particular turn is inclined to the right. It's called "gravity."
                              89 Grand Marquis GS.

                              Putting it here because I keep forgetting to mention it. It's not very exciting at the moment.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by johnunit View Post
                                Do you know what the qa1 equivalent to those shocks is? Any shocks you can compare them to as far as stiffness?
                                QA1 bought out Carrera years ago think there might be 2 or 3 different valvings. Also length should be determined by static ride height. Stiffness will depend on spring rates. Stiffer springs stifer shocks
                                Scars are tatoos of the fearless

                                Comment

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