Making a box not handle like a box..

[JeffBoudah]

Weight is not a problem with aluminum heads, ac removal, and batt in the trunk... adding 2lbs of epoxy resin is negligible. I've got some west systems 105/206 left over from a kayak build. It's a liquid resin and should fill it fairly void free and provide enough torsional ductility to not fatigue. Once my car is on the road I will try it stock and filled.

[His Royal Ghostliness]

Is there any way you can squeeze that epoxy in there under low pressure? That would pretty much eliminate any voids especially if you stand the bar up and fill it from the bottom drain hole allowing air to exit out the top one.

[ootdega]

I don't mean to sound like an asshole. But I don't think that would handle nearly close to what I want. My car already has more than that and isn't close to what I want. But.. I'm blaming it a lot on the 15" rims and tires I have. I'm looking for handling similar to a whale P71 with suspension mods.

I'm just sayin.

You have to think of it as a whole system, not part-by-part. Adding a rear bar might induce understeer, if your springs are too stiff it can make it handle worse, if your shocks are a bad match for your springs they won't do much of anything, there are a ton of things to consider.

Start with the tires. No single purchase will do more for your handling.

[P72Ford]

A sway bar undergoes a torsional load. How does epoxy behave under elastic deformation in the torsional environment? If it is less stiff then the steel used in the sway bar, the added torsional rigidity is nil.

All of this presumes the epoxy actually bonds to the internal surface of the sway bar, and a "no slip" condition exists at that boundary. Otherwise the epoxy and the bar will "twist" seperately, resulting in absolutley no change in the behavior of the bar.

Regarding the rear shock question. When I had wagon coils in the rear of one of my sedans, I used 2WD '97 F150 rear shocks. They certainly have a higher damping rate. However, you want to heed what Dave mentioned. Wagon springs provided a higher ride height, which is why the longer truck shock would work. The rest height was directly between full compression and full extension. A lower ride height would require a shorter shock. That being said, I'm sure McGaughys or someone makes lowering shocks for those trucks. They have a ring mount on the bottom, and a bayonet at the top, which means they are bolt in.

[JeffBoudah]

It will work or it wont, and it wont hinder performance if it doesn't.

[sly]

If it doesn't work, it may introduce moisture traps and internal corrosion and later fatigue and reduce the effectiveness over time.

[P72Ford]

Based on my field experience, epoxy rarely bonds with an unprepped surface.

[JeffBoudah]

If it doesn't work, it may introduce moisture traps and internal corrosion and later fatigue and reduce the effectiveness over time.

Based on my field experience, epoxy rarely bonds with an unprepped surface.

Forget i even brought it up, all you guys seem to want to focus on are failure modes. My glass is half full, try it sometime.

[DuceAnAHalf]

http://www.timskelton.com/lightning/...anti_sways.htm

[DuceAnAHalf]

http://www.auto-ware.com/calcs/swaybar.htm

[P72Ford]

Forget i even brought it up, all you guys seem to want to focus on are failure modes. My glass is half full, try it sometime.

I'm not pissing in your cheerios (and I highly doubt Jason is either); I just don't want to see you waste your time and energy. I'm not just speaking in riddles out of an engineering text book; I work problems like these every day, and my designs and solutions are highly scrutinized. US air supremacy depends on it, . I'm asking you questions and offering advice that I think you should consider in order to decide if this is a good idea or not.

I personally have no idea how epoxy behaves under elastic deformation, but we can look that data up. I would venture it is more elastic than mild steel, which is where my conjecture that it wouldn't be beneficial came from. Maybe you will find otherwise. Maybe you have a feasible idea for prepping the inside of the sway bar, too. You never said.

If your glass is always half full, then why are you viewing my questions and concerns in a negative light? I'm just trying to be helpful.

[johnunit]

Do these cars need stiffer front bars though? They still understeer a lot with a police rear bar, a stiffer front bar would make it worse

[gadget73]

I wouldn't bother filling one because I'm lazy, and I refuse to do work that has no benefit. Pumping epoxy in one wouldn't do much for you unless you wanted to make one a bit stronger to use as a recovery point.


Also, that glass half full stuff is bunk. The glass is twice as large as it needs to be.



They do indeed understeer a fair bit, but I expect that changing the front spring rate would help with that, especially if the ratio between front spring rate and rear rate changes. The stock is about 2.5:1, the common aftermarket setup is closer to 5:1.

[JeffBoudah]

I'm not pissing in your cheerios (and I highly doubt Jason is either); I just don't want to see you waste your time and energy. I'm not just speaking in riddles out of an engineering text book; I work problems like these every day, and my designs and solutions are highly scrutinized. US air supremacy depends on it, . I'm asking you questions and offering advice that I think you should consider in order to decide if this is a good idea or not.

I personally have no idea how epoxy behaves under elastic deformation, but we can look that data up. I would venture it is more elastic than mild steel, which is where my conjecture that it wouldn't be beneficial came from. Maybe you will find otherwise. Maybe you have a feasible idea for prepping the inside of the sway bar, too. You never said.

If your glass is always half full, then why are you viewing my questions and concerns in a negative light? I'm just trying to be helpful.

Speak in all the engineering riddles you like, as i am one too. The bar has been powdercoated, so, run through an oven hot enough to burn off any contaminates inside. It's as prepped as one can get it. Regardless of it's modulus or % elongation, it would essentially act as a second internal bar, being stiffer than the air it replaced. Even if it were not mechanically adhered to the inside of bar itself, it would still stiffen since the epoxy plug would not just be a straight cylinder, it wraps around to the ends of the arm.

This is not as laborious of a task as you guys are making this out to be. Mix the epoxy, fill a large syringe, pump it in, repeat till full, plug it, let it cure. If there's no appreciable difference, so be it. I've wasted more time on much less productive things on this project...

[turbo2256b]

The epoxy would crack once dry and twisted. Woldnt necessarily loose bond to the metal except in dirty areas.