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    Thanks for the checklist. I'll go down through it soon as I get the chance.
    O2 sensors aren't reversed as the last time I had the intake off, I left the wiring in place, except for what had to be removed up top (injector harness). I am second-guessing myself now about the ground eyelet...going to check that very soon.
    Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 335,xxx km. New HO 5.0 in and running. Bought 2006/08/22. June 2017 PotM!
    Winter vehicle-> 1995 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCab 4x4, 284,xxx+km. AKA "Brutus" 460/E4OD/4.10 axles and 12 MPG. Bought 2019/08/14

    Originally posted by phayzer5
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

    Comment


      Ground wire was put back on the intake stud.
      Fu(k.
      Oh well, to the checklist I go
      Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 335,xxx km. New HO 5.0 in and running. Bought 2006/08/22. June 2017 PotM!
      Winter vehicle-> 1995 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCab 4x4, 284,xxx+km. AKA "Brutus" 460/E4OD/4.10 axles and 12 MPG. Bought 2019/08/14

      Originally posted by phayzer5
      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

      Comment


        So I started digging around to find my surging idle problem yesterday afternoon. Pulled the air intake ductwork and looked into the TB and saw coolant in there. Gasket between the TB and EGR spacer was soaked. Pulled the TB off, cleaned up the coolant in the throat and all the old gasket off the TB and EGR spacer, made a new gasket and put it all back together. Seems clean and dry now. Unhooked the battery for about 1/2 hour to reset the stored memory codes. Seems to be a lot better now than it was, but still has the occasional little fit of hunting idle speed. Going to have to check for vacuum leaks and maybe pull the codes to see if there's anything else going on that shouldn't be.
        Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 335,xxx km. New HO 5.0 in and running. Bought 2006/08/22. June 2017 PotM!
        Winter vehicle-> 1995 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCab 4x4, 284,xxx+km. AKA "Brutus" 460/E4OD/4.10 axles and 12 MPG. Bought 2019/08/14

        Originally posted by phayzer5
        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

        Comment


          I've had problems with that EGR spacer. if the mating surface isn't absolutely perfect it leaks coolant. Sometimes the only way to make it work right is to just bypass it.
          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

          Originally posted by phayzer5
          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

          Comment


            Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
            I've had problems with that EGR spacer. if the mating surface isn't absolutely perfect it leaks coolant. Sometimes the only way to make it work right is to just bypass it.
            I was so close to bypassing mine earlier in the year. Perhaps a thin layer of that stuff someone mentioned would be a better idea than just the gasket alone. I'm running just the gasket but if I had to do it again...
            1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
            1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

            Comment


              Seems to be clean now and running a lot better, though still not perfect. I'm accusing the gasket of leaking and not the parts being bad (for now anyway).
              Bypass is the next step if there's any more trouble.
              Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 335,xxx km. New HO 5.0 in and running. Bought 2006/08/22. June 2017 PotM!
              Winter vehicle-> 1995 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCab 4x4, 284,xxx+km. AKA "Brutus" 460/E4OD/4.10 axles and 12 MPG. Bought 2019/08/14

              Originally posted by phayzer5
              I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

              Comment


                Replaced the three-year old Standard Motor Products O2 sensors last weekend with brand new NTK parts. Runs a LOT better now than it did when warm and the O2 sensor codes are gone, for now at least.
                Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 335,xxx km. New HO 5.0 in and running. Bought 2006/08/22. June 2017 PotM!
                Winter vehicle-> 1995 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCab 4x4, 284,xxx+km. AKA "Brutus" 460/E4OD/4.10 axles and 12 MPG. Bought 2019/08/14

                Originally posted by phayzer5
                I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                Comment


                  Still idles like shit. I posted a video on facebook of it a little while ago:
                  https://www.facebook.com/josh.sincla...2868632735354/
                  No codes related to how it would run (ie MAP, TPS, O2, etc.)
                  Also likes to really bog, stumble and backfire under load at low RPM under WOT (stop to 25 MPH).

                  So yesterday I did the following things to try and sort it out:
                  Changed the plugs for new Autolite Copper plugs
                  Changed the TFI module
                  Changed the ignition coil
                  Changed the MAP sensor (with a used one I had laying about)
                  Checked TPS voltage. About .9v at idle position, just over 4v at WOT. New TPS and MAP ordered just for the hell of it.
                  Switched O2 sensor connectors from side to side
                  Filled up with premium gas (gas that was in the car was what sat in the tank all winter)

                  Result was a *slightly* smoother idle, but now it runs like absolute garbage under part throttle while driving it. Feels like the plug wires have been switched around and it's wired wrong. Constantly bucking, misfiring and backfiring. It's been hard on gas since the HO conversion, which is also when it started running bad. Old engine was an environmental disaster with the oil leaks, it rattled and clattered while cold but ran silky smooth and still pulled hard on the bottom end, and was good on gas. New setup is the opposite; it idles without knocking, pulls hard at speed, bogs and runs like shit at idle and down low, burns gas like a champ, and does not use any oil.
                  During the process of switching the O2 connectors, I broke the orange ground wire off the back of the intake manifold. But, the driveability problems I described were like it both before and after the ground wire got broken.

                  93 truck engine block with E7 heads
                  Original upper intake manifold, EGR spacer bored out to 58mm to match the 86 Mustang TB that has been reversed for LH intake panther setup.
                  IAC is new within last 5 years, cleaned annually (it's never dirty when removed, entire intake system is clean since I fixed the coolant leak)
                  New 19 lb fuel injectors. Fuel pressure and flow OK
                  New 155 lph BBK fuel pump
                  86 Mustang 5.0 HO camshaft
                  All new engine internals. Valvetrain new except for valves and valve springs
                  ECM is a Lincoln Mark VII part, unsure of exact year or three-digit ID code. Cruise control still works
                  EGR and all related components deleted. No EGR codes from reader
                  Cats cleaned out, smog pump and all related components are removed
                  Lincoln Logs for headers
                  NTK O2 sensors <2 years old
                  New VSS

                  Any ideas? I'm starting to lose my patience with this...."do an HO conversion" they said, "it will be fun" they said...nothing but headaches since I did it. Can't get it to run right now for about two years.

                  I understand the HO is going to be a dog on the bottom end off the line, especially with my 3.08 gears due to the cam's higher revving tendencies than the original lopo unit. But that shouldn't include backfiring and abysmal fuel economy, rough idling, stalling, etc.

                  Thanks in advance
                  Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 335,xxx km. New HO 5.0 in and running. Bought 2006/08/22. June 2017 PotM!
                  Winter vehicle-> 1995 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCab 4x4, 284,xxx+km. AKA "Brutus" 460/E4OD/4.10 axles and 12 MPG. Bought 2019/08/14

                  Originally posted by phayzer5
                  I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                  Comment


                    Make sure the ecu is from an 88+ or else its not an ho computer. Thats just from a quick search so it may not matter but Im thinking if its an 86-87 ecu its the same lopo firing order and thats why youre having issues.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                    Comment


                      check the air and coolant temp sensor voltages. That sounds a lot like what they do when they're fucky.

                      http://www.grandmarq.net/oldfuelinjection/page10.html

                      The ECT is what triggers closed loop operation. If it never hits 160, the O2 sensors never turn on. The ACT is what triggers long term fuel trim learning, but it also has a lot to do with cold and hot restarts. They can fail to respond properly but not in such a way that they are out of the sanity range so the ECM will not report a code for them.

                      Also worth confirming how much manifold vacuum you have. If its under 17", it will hunt like this and there isn't a lot to be done for it short of finding the root cause.

                      and to ask the stupid question, the plug wires are in the right spot, and nobody re-pinned the injector harness to "fix" the firing order right? O2 sensors are not reversed side to side? Doing that will make the fuel trim all retarded too.

                      86-87 LSC were HO. If the cruise works, its 88+ though. The 86-87 did not have integrated cruise control, and using one of those on an '88 Towncar would make the cruise not work.
                      Last edited by gadget73; 05-13-2019, 04:52 PM.
                      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                      Originally posted by phayzer5
                      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                      Comment


                        Hmm true I forgot the po had an 88, my bad.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by nfldfordltd View Post
                          Still idles like shit. I posted a video on facebook of it a little while ago:
                          https://www.facebook.com/josh.sincla...2868632735354/
                          No codes related to how it would run (ie MAP, TPS, O2, etc.)
                          Also likes to really bog, stumble and backfire under load at low RPM under WOT (stop to 25 MPH).

                          So yesterday I did the following things to try and sort it out:
                          Changed the plugs for new Autolite Copper plugs
                          Changed the TFI module
                          Changed the ignition coil
                          Changed the MAP sensor (with a used one I had laying about)
                          Checked TPS voltage. About .9v at idle position, just over 4v at WOT. New TPS and MAP ordered just for the hell of it.
                          Switched O2 sensor connectors from side to side
                          Filled up with premium gas (gas that was in the car was what sat in the tank all winter)

                          Result was a *slightly* smoother idle, but now it runs like absolute garbage under part throttle while driving it. Feels like the plug wires have been switched around and it's wired wrong. Constantly bucking, misfiring and backfiring. It's been hard on gas since the HO conversion, which is also when it started running bad. Old engine was an environmental disaster with the oil leaks, it rattled and clattered while cold but ran silky smooth and still pulled hard on the bottom end, and was good on gas. New setup is the opposite; it idles without knocking, pulls hard at speed, bogs and runs like shit at idle and down low, burns gas like a champ, and does not use any oil.
                          During the process of switching the O2 connectors, I broke the orange ground wire off the back of the intake manifold. But, the driveability problems I described were like it both before and after the ground wire got broken.

                          93 truck engine block with E7 heads
                          Original upper intake manifold, EGR spacer bored out to 58mm to match the 86 Mustang TB that has been reversed for LH intake panther setup.
                          IAC is new within last 5 years, cleaned annually (it's never dirty when removed, entire intake system is clean since I fixed the coolant leak)
                          New 19 lb fuel injectors. Fuel pressure and flow OK
                          New 155 lph BBK fuel pump
                          86 Mustang 5.0 HO camshaft
                          All new engine internals. Valvetrain new except for valves and valve springs
                          ECM is a Lincoln Mark VII part, unsure of exact year or three-digit ID code. Cruise control still works
                          EGR and all related components deleted. No EGR codes from reader
                          Cats cleaned out, smog pump and all related components are removed
                          Lincoln Logs for headers
                          NTK O2 sensors <2 years old
                          New VSS

                          Any ideas? I'm starting to lose my patience with this...."do an HO conversion" they said, "it will be fun" they said...nothing but headaches since I did it. Can't get it to run right now for about two years.

                          I understand the HO is going to be a dog on the bottom end off the line, especially with my 3.08 gears due to the cam's higher revving tendencies than the original lopo unit. But that shouldn't include backfiring and abysmal fuel economy, rough idling, stalling, etc.

                          Thanks in advance
                          So I had a long night in the garage tonight.

                          Pulled the O2 sensor wiring harness up from below, which was easy give the orange ground wire was broken off from yesterday's misadventures.

                          I cut the heat resistant sleeves off the harness to find one of the wires was broken inside of it. I had tried switching the O2 plugins from side to side already, no difference was made to the way it ran. Broken wire on the other hand...

                          So I fixed that wire, put the heat resistant sleeve back on the loom and double checked the EVTM to make sure I had the correct side plugged in to the O2 sensor. Reattached the orange ground wire and put that to bed. Good job.

                          Started it up, took it for a drive to bring it to operating temperature and set the IAC/TPS. surging idle seemed slightly better but did it ever misfire and backfire badly.

                          Took out each plug one by one and found the #3 plug's electrode was smashed into the plug itself. The I remembered that I dropped it when I was changing the plugs over the weekend. Pried it apart and set the gap. Double checked the tightness of the plug wires and took it for a spin.

                          OMG! It ran the best it ever did since I did the HO conversion! Pulled hard and ran smooth as could be!

                          Stopped at the grocery store on the way home, picked up a couple things. Got home and proceeded to change the oil after sitting all winter and driving the shit out of it for the past few days....

                          After the oil was changed, I turned the key and got a definitive "I'm not going to start for you now" click. Click, Click click click. Not a gig.

                          Three solenoids, two hours and one very upset hombre later, I found the problem. The starter cable terminal was loose on the starter. No big deal, just tighten it up, right?

                          Wrong.

                          It just spun around in circles. Stripped like the girls at The Brass Rail.

                          I then found a small nut and bolt combo that almost worked to tighten up the loose cable. I'm not happy with how not completely snug it is, but at least it started for me again.

                          Wouldn't care so much except I only just took it out of winter storage not so long ago and I have to go on a 3800 km (2400 mile) trip in it this coming weekend.

                          This is starting to smell like an episode of Roadkill.....
                          Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 335,xxx km. New HO 5.0 in and running. Bought 2006/08/22. June 2017 PotM!
                          Winter vehicle-> 1995 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCab 4x4, 284,xxx+km. AKA "Brutus" 460/E4OD/4.10 axles and 12 MPG. Bought 2019/08/14

                          Originally posted by phayzer5
                          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                          Comment


                            which wire colors are on what side of your O2 harness?

                            so basically running messed up because of a bum plug? Yeah, it happens. Under all that electronic control its still an engine designed in the 1950s.
                            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                            Originally posted by phayzer5
                            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                              which wire colors are on what side of your O2 harness?

                              so basically running messed up because of a bum plug? Yeah, it happens. Under all that electronic control its still an engine designed in the 1950s.
                              I think the LH O2 sensor has a dark blue and yellow wire to it. Don't recall the RH one.

                              Right? I mean, what are the odds of dropping it fair on the electrode and not noticing it prior to installation?

                              Ugh. I just hope it's all cured for a few weeks until I can get all my junk in one place again...the joys of moving.
                              Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 335,xxx km. New HO 5.0 in and running. Bought 2006/08/22. June 2017 PotM!
                              Winter vehicle-> 1995 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCab 4x4, 284,xxx+km. AKA "Brutus" 460/E4OD/4.10 axles and 12 MPG. Bought 2019/08/14

                              Originally posted by phayzer5
                              I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                                ...so basically running messed up because of a bum plug? Yeah, it happens. Under all that electronic control its still an engine designed in the 1950s.
                                That to me is the beauty of stuff like this and mainly why I run them daily.
                                1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
                                1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

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