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Thread: 1988 Lincoln Town Car

  1. #121
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    you can check preload by counting turns on the rocker bolt. From zero lash to torque it should be between 1/4 and 1 turn. Not overly exact, but thats more than zero preload and not so much that the plunger is bottomed out.

    try the non-HO firing order.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body, 246k and counting

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  2. #122
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    If it's a truck cam with the lopo firing order... it may be a flat tappet cam. This could be a bad thing as the dizzy gear would fairly quickly eat the gear teeth off the cam.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM, 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
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  3. #123
    88 LTC nfldfordltd's Avatar
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    That was going to be my next attempt, was to try the non-HO firing order. When that happens, I'm going to plug in the old lopo computer too, for simplicity's sake.
    If it turns out that it is not an HO cam, I'm going to put the original lopo cam back in, because it will establish that I don't know what that cam actually is. Guy I bought it off of told me it was an 86 Mustang cam. But he could have told me lies.

    Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 266,xxx km. Engine currently being built for installation this spring. Put to bed for the winter on 2016/11/12. Bought 2006/08/22.
    Winter vehicle-> 1996 Ford F-150 XL 4x4, red, 298,xxx+km. AKA "Dennis". All done and ready to run this winter, painted and all. Bought 2013/11/26.

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  4. #124
    88 LTC nfldfordltd's Avatar
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    After some more hair pulling and research, I have determined I installed the timing set incorrectly.
    I positioned the crankshaft timing gear so that the crankshaft key is at about the 8:00 position, in the square keyway, while the triangle mark is at 12:00. The triangle mark is the 4* advanced, positioned straight up at 12:00 on the crankshaft.
    What I should have done was placed the crankshaft key in the 12:00 position and installed the key into the triangle crankshaft timing gear keyway that aligns with the dot on the cam gear.
    http://www.cloyes.com/Images/Instruc...0(general).pdf
    Right now, my cam is approximately 120* advanced with the crank key at 8:00 with the marks positioned as they appear in the bottom, or "advanced" diagram on the attached link. I honestly thought the square key had to go into the square keyway, no matter which setting I chose to install the timing set/cam position at. I didn't notice the difference in the position of the marks in relation to the gear teeth until it was too late.
    Front is coming off the engine again this evening to tidy up this little mess I have created for myself. I'm not sure if I will still attempt to advance the cam (albeit correctly this time) or just restore it to the factory setting. I like the idea of preserving low end power in this HO converted engine, but I'm a little gun shy after this mess I got myself into.
    Live and learn.
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    Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 266,xxx km. Engine currently being built for installation this spring. Put to bed for the winter on 2016/11/12. Bought 2006/08/22.
    Winter vehicle-> 1996 Ford F-150 XL 4x4, red, 298,xxx+km. AKA "Dennis". All done and ready to run this winter, painted and all. Bought 2013/11/26.

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  5. #125
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Ah, I see what you mean. I didn't even notice that there wasn't a key inside the key way.

    Just to wing some doom and gloom at you, it wouldn't be a bad idea to check the pushrods for bending. The non-HO engines are interference motors. I don't know if maybe you got lucky with it but people with the older plastic timing sets have bent valves when the chain jumped. Usually you'll see bent pushrods and the tops of the valves will not appear to be fully closed if that happens.
    Last edited by gadget73; 04-17-2017 at 06:05 PM.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body, 246k and counting

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  6. #126
    88 LTC nfldfordltd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    Ah, I see what you mean. I didn't even notice that there wasn't a key inside the key way.

    Just to wing some doom and gloom at you, it wouldn't be a bad idea to check the pushrods for bending. The non-HO engines are interference motors. I don't know if maybe you got lucky with it but people with the older plastic timing sets have bent valves when the chain jumped. Usually you'll see bent pushrods and the tops of the valves will not appear to be fully closed if that happens.
    I never had it running, so the chances of bending pushrods I think is reduced, albeit not completely impossible. When I had the valve covers off a couple days ago and watched them while cranking the engine, they all appeared to be doing their thing properly. What I could see of them above the heads looked good.
    Last night I stripped the front off the engine and re-installed the timing set, and today I'm going to attempt to re-assemble it all. I tried to get the timing cover back on last night but that didn't go well, that was when I said eff it and downed tools for the night. I somehow lost the two locator dowels for the timing cover, first thing is find those. I hope to sweet mercy they didn't end up in the base pan...I have to devise a way to check and make sure they're not in there. I'm thinking a magnet on a flexible stick of some sort. If they're not there, that's good but I still need to find them for assembly.
    Thanks for the help along the way, with any luck at all I'll have this back together and running today.

    Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 266,xxx km. Engine currently being built for installation this spring. Put to bed for the winter on 2016/11/12. Bought 2006/08/22.
    Winter vehicle-> 1996 Ford F-150 XL 4x4, red, 298,xxx+km. AKA "Dennis". All done and ready to run this winter, painted and all. Bought 2013/11/26.

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  7. #127
    88 LTC nfldfordltd's Avatar
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    Tore the front off the engine last night, re-installed the timing set.
    Today I took the day off work and put it all back together. I was lucky enough to obtain a new timing gasket set too
    Got it running after some fiddling around with the distributor, timed it up reasonably well. Topped off the fluids and set out for a spin around the block.
    The Good:
    -It starts as it should and idles decent
    -The bearings are silent
    -There was zero leaks on startup
    -There was no more smoke after the initial startup, just a little puff at first (likely from assembly lube/oil in the cylinders from honing)

    The Bad:
    -TV cable needs to be adjusted, it seems like it's shifting way too soft now
    -It is really gutless starting from a dead stop
    -There is a bad valvetrain clack coming from the #7 or maybe #8 cylinder. I fear Gadget was right and I bent something up trying to start it with the cam and crank all cockeyed. Hopefully the head and/or lower intake doesn't have to come off again
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    Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 266,xxx km. Engine currently being built for installation this spring. Put to bed for the winter on 2016/11/12. Bought 2006/08/22.
    Winter vehicle-> 1996 Ford F-150 XL 4x4, red, 298,xxx+km. AKA "Dennis". All done and ready to run this winter, painted and all. Bought 2013/11/26.

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  8. #128
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    You are missing your hood!

    Nice deal on getting it running. Lots of learning getting to do everything over and over again. I was in the same boat for my engine. I seriously can do a number on disassembly in a short amount of time now with all the practice I got!

    Mines is a dog down low too. Timing is advanced to 15degrees and just gutless. I have 3.73's too but she only really comes above after 2k. Then its ON.
    ~David~ Click the Pic for the Low Down on the Vic...SERIOUSLY I DEMAND YOU!


    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  9. #129
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    The HO cam is lame at low rpm. It gets better with a better lower intake but in stock form it sucks. A looser torque converter would do wonders for that.

    I got nice improvements on my Mark VII when I put that old Holley lower intake on it, much more than I'd have ever expected. A ported stock lower would be functionally equivalent, and far easier to obtain than a 20 odd year old low production performance part like I happened to lay my hands on. The original SystemMax lower bolted to the stock upper intake. I won't tell you it totally fixes the soggy bottom end, but it definitely helps. My Mark is the weight of a Crown Vic, roughly 3900 lbs, with the same low stall converter and 3.27 gears.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body, 246k and counting

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  10. #130
    88 LTC nfldfordltd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87gtVIC View Post
    You are missing your hood!

    Nice deal on getting it running. Lots of learning getting to do everything over and over again. I was in the same boat for my engine. I seriously can do a number on disassembly in a short amount of time now with all the practice I got!

    Mines is a dog down low too. Timing is advanced to 15degrees and just gutless. I have 3.73's too but she only really comes above after 2k. Then its ON.
    No hood? No problem "Because Roadkill" lol
    I'd be fast at mine too except all my tools are scattered now from this job. I spent more time looking for tools than I did actually working at it when I re-did the timing set. First project right now is clean up the garage, it's near impossible to work there now. Then the plan is to sort out that noisy valve problem and see what it's really doing, hard to get a feel for it when you can't exceed 30 mph...I was going to bump the timing a bit (it's at about 10* now) but I have to be careful with that as the high octane fuel supply here is very limited, and the quality of the 87 octane is terrible. Rear end gears were in the cards for next years' project, and if it's no quicker than that after all the adjustments are made, it will definitely have to happen...I like a quick motor car. I wouldn't want to go much lower than 3.55's as I need a minimum fuel range of 250 miles.
    I'm thinking a 1/2" spacer between lower and upper intake may be added to the mix to try and wake it up a bit on the bottom end. I was aware the lower end power was going to suffer, hence why I advanced the cam 4*. Still too early to set a baseline, but things will be done to make it quicker if needed. First things first. Like identify and fix the valvetrain noise.
    But I'm very happy just to have it running at this point.
    I assume TV cable adjustment is normal after an HO conversion? I lost some transmission fluid during the engine removal/installation. Topped it up but still seems very lazy shifting, like the cable has fallen off...but that's not it as the cable is still on and I am running a brass TV cable bushing with clip to prevent such an event. Can't quite tell but it almost feels like it's starting off in 2nd gear. Maybe the transmission is just being a douche after being parked since last fall too, though usually it shifts too harsh after the winter nap every year.

    Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 266,xxx km. Engine currently being built for installation this spring. Put to bed for the winter on 2016/11/12. Bought 2006/08/22.
    Winter vehicle-> 1996 Ford F-150 XL 4x4, red, 298,xxx+km. AKA "Dennis". All done and ready to run this winter, painted and all. Bought 2013/11/26.

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  11. #131
    88 LTC nfldfordltd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    The HO cam is lame at low rpm. It gets better with a better lower intake but in stock form it sucks. A looser torque converter would do wonders for that.

    I got nice improvements on my Mark VII when I put that old Holley lower intake on it, much more than I'd have ever expected. A ported stock lower would be functionally equivalent, and far easier to obtain than a 20 odd year old low production performance part like I happened to lay my hands on. The original SystemMax lower bolted to the stock upper intake. I won't tell you it totally fixes the soggy bottom end, but it definitely helps. My Mark is the weight of a Crown Vic, roughly 3900 lbs, with the same low stall converter and 3.27 gears.
    Keep in mind I'm running a non-HO upper intake still with a 58 mm Capri RS TB and lopo EGR spacer only bored to 58 mm. I do notice the difference in the throttle response now, and the engine definitely breathes better. Overall, I like the setup and I'm hoping having the valve issue fixed along with setting the transmission TV pressure with help all that out in the interim until I can ditch the 3.08 gears next year. I'm still running the stock lopo fuel pump yet too; I have a 56 psi Walbro Mustang pump in the parts stock now, I'm waiting on a sending unit to arrive before I drop the tank again. Maybe the more aggressive pump will help things along as well, the old lopo pump isn't what it used to be.
    It would definitely be easier for me to get a rare part like that (lower intake) than have my current lower ported around here (I don't want to get into that discussion again right now lol). I do have another lower I could send away to be ported, maybe I'll look at that option in the future.
    Are you still running speed density with your XE 258 cam setup, or have you converted to MAF?

    Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 266,xxx km. Engine currently being built for installation this spring. Put to bed for the winter on 2016/11/12. Bought 2006/08/22.
    Winter vehicle-> 1996 Ford F-150 XL 4x4, red, 298,xxx+km. AKA "Dennis". All done and ready to run this winter, painted and all. Bought 2013/11/26.

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  12. #132
    Mr. Cool Georges86's Avatar
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    Glad that it's up and running!

    George

  13. #133
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Just for information sake...I have a Trick Flow Stage 1 Cam in my engine....seems to be similar in function down low to the HO stick.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    The HO cam is lame at low rpm. It gets better with a better lower intake but in stock form it sucks. A looser torque converter would do wonders for that.

    I got nice improvements on my Mark VII when I put that old Holley lower intake on it, much more than I'd have ever expected. A ported stock lower would be functionally equivalent, and far easier to obtain than a 20 odd year old low production performance part like I happened to lay my hands on. The original SystemMax lower bolted to the stock upper intake. I won't tell you it totally fixes the soggy bottom end, but it definitely helps. My Mark is the weight of a Crown Vic, roughly 3900 lbs, with the same low stall converter and 3.27 gears.
    ~David~ Click the Pic for the Low Down on the Vic...SERIOUSLY I DEMAND YOU!


    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  14. #134
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    If I had tons of money I'd buy a shop with a sophisticated dyno room and build engines just for the sake of knowledge, kinda like they do on engine masters.. Sure the information is already out there but self discovery is rewarding in it's own way.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  15. #135
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    The XE-258 mine has does pretty good at the bottom without running out of steam up top like the Explorer cam does. Honestly I can't pick anything that cam does wrong for a 4000 lb car with a low stall converter. For a lighter car, especially one with a looser converter it might run out of steam too quick. Same for stuff with a manual.
    Last edited by gadget73; 04-20-2017 at 06:54 PM.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body, 246k and counting

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  16. #136
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Not to go off topic but try and further uncover why some cars are turds......I also have a 2200 or 2400 stall converter in my car. I dont know if that has anything to do with the car being so sluggish from a stop or not. Just throwing more info out and maybe something sticks.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipSM56DqXsM

    Some pull for reference.
    Last edited by 87gtVIC; 04-20-2017 at 07:00 PM.
    ~David~ Click the Pic for the Low Down on the Vic...SERIOUSLY I DEMAND YOU!


    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  17. #137
    88 LTC nfldfordltd's Avatar
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    I'm going to fix the noisy valvetrain problem first before I go at anything else there. The TV cable seems like it's way off (too soft) now, and though I have the timing roughed in, it needs to be brought up to operating temperature and fine tuned, idle speed set, etc. It's not likely going to happen for a few days as I got a ton of other crap to do around the house. You know, stuff that got neglected while I was trying to get it put back together and running.
    The stock HO cam is going to have to live there for this year at least. The car budget for this year has already been blown.

    Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 266,xxx km. Engine currently being built for installation this spring. Put to bed for the winter on 2016/11/12. Bought 2006/08/22.
    Winter vehicle-> 1996 Ford F-150 XL 4x4, red, 298,xxx+km. AKA "Dennis". All done and ready to run this winter, painted and all. Bought 2013/11/26.

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  18. #138
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    I'm certainly not sure where to go with my Townie. I have an HO that's viable but is it really worth it to yank out a perfectly fine engine for it? Or should I just complete the HO upper swap? Still need a damn EGR spacer for that though. There's one at a yard but I've got too much going on this weekend to get out there to pull it.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  19. #139
    88 LTC nfldfordltd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    I'm certainly not sure where to go with my Townie. I have an HO that's viable but is it really worth it to yank out a perfectly fine engine for it? Or should I just complete the HO upper swap? Still need a damn EGR spacer for that though. There's one at a yard but I've got too much going on this weekend to get out there to pull it.
    If my engine was still good, I definitely would have done the HO conversion to it, rather than build a new engine like I did. Your old engine would need to be torn down pretty good in order to do a full-on HO conversion, but I'd rather do that than pull/set an engine back in. I only did what I did because my old engine was very tired, consuming oil at a significant rate, gutless, complete with ear-splitting rod knock. I got a low mileage (yet poorly maintained) 93 truck engine for free and used that as my starting point for the HO conversion.
    As for the EGR spacer, I got my stock lopo one bored out to 58 mm to match the upper intake and TB. That being said, I'm running an "86 5.0 Mustang" setup at 58 mm, not the 87+ that most HO conversions use. That'll happen later, I just used what was available to me at the time.

    Summer car-> 1988 Lincoln Town Car, triple blue, 266,xxx km. Engine currently being built for installation this spring. Put to bed for the winter on 2016/11/12. Bought 2006/08/22.
    Winter vehicle-> 1996 Ford F-150 XL 4x4, red, 298,xxx+km. AKA "Dennis". All done and ready to run this winter, painted and all. Bought 2013/11/26.

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  20. #140
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    I've got an HO engine, still in the donor car but donor car could be put back on the road reliably so not sure if I should just do that or yank engine and scrap it (1991 Mark VII Bill Blass). It has 151k, my car has ~114k.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

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