1988 Lincoln Town Car

[gadget73]

Possible. Did you get the firing order correct? Is it wired for the proper rotation of the distributor? I'd verify the plug wire setup first, if no love verify the distributor is at TDC on the compression stroke of #1.

[nfldfordltd]

Possible. Did you get the firing order correct? Is it wired for the proper rotation of the distributor? I'd verify the plug wire setup first, if no love verify the distributor is at TDC on the compression stroke of #1.

Did all of the above, still no go. The cam is advanced 4 degrees, but in my head the TDC/distributor correlation should remain the same, as ignition timing and cam timing are two different things. It got pretty flooded during the process, so I changed the plugs out with fresh ones and it still cranks slowly with random backfiring through the throttle body. I'm thinking I may try changing the oil as it may be washed down with gas from the cranking and not starting. FML.

[gadget73]

You do have it wired for counter-clockwise distributor rotation, yes? Hard to tell from the pic but it looks like its wired for clockwise.

http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/firing-o...d-302-351.html

[nfldfordltd]

You do have it wired for counter-clockwise distributor rotation, yes? Hard to tell from the pic but it looks like its wired for clockwise.

http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/firing-o...d-302-351.html

I had it wired for clockwise but detected the mistake and re-wired for counterclockwise. I thought that would solve the problem, but no, it's still doing exactly the same thing.

[jaywish]

Maybe now it is 180 out?

[nfldfordltd]

Maybe now it is 180 out?

I don't think so. It was checked no less than 23 times today.
However, there is SFA compression on #1 cylinder when on the compression stroke, leading me to believe the valves aren't closing.
The lifters I used were in an engine that sat for about 10 years, and were out of the engine soaking in solvent for months. I think they expanded while they were out and failed to collapse again when installed in the engine. I noted the rocker arms to be very stiff during assembly, but I assumed that to be normal. First time at this engine rebuilding thing.
I'm going to check the valvetrain for proper movement tomorrow and see if my theory is right. If not, I'll put the cam back to factory timing alignment marks and time it up again on #1 and try again.
Failed attempts to start a new engine can make a long day all that much longer.

[gadget73]

4 degrees won't affect it. I had the cam one whole tooth off and it still ran. Wasn't amazing, but it had basic start and run functionality.

Even when full closed, there should be .020-.060 preload on the lifters, meaning that the rockers will not be loose when torqued down. If the preload is greater than that, you might bottom out the lifters and cause the valves to hang open. Ideally you want a dial indicator to measure this, but if you can find zero lash and then watch how far the bolt turns between zero lash and torque it'll get you close enough. Basically you want to see between 1/4 and 1 turn of the bolt.

There isn't anything to really expand in there. Its a metal slug in a bore with a spring and a retaining clip.

[87gtVIC]

The lifters should stay pumped up, or expanded in your case. Issues arise when they collapse.

[nfldfordltd]

I knew I got collapsed and expanded mixed up...I was mesmerized with it yesterday.
This is the timing set I have installed:



Here is the instruction sheet I used that cam with the Cloyes 3-way timing set. I have it installed according to the bottom diagram (advanced):

http://www.cloyes.com/Images/Instruc...0(general).pdf

The square keyway on the crankshaft is at about the 8:00 position instead of 12:00, while the dowel/marker on the cam gear is at 6:00 where it should be. Without a cam degree wheel, according to the instructions it should be advanced about 4*.
Right now, I'm thinking I may change out the lifters for the one still in the old lopo engine. It makes me nervous that even if I do manage to get it to start, seized lifters will likely do damage inside the engine, which would be a total disaster at this point. I'd like to buy new ones but damn they're expensive and it would take 2-3 weeks to get them. I sorta need to get the car out of the garage sooner than that to get other stuff fixed.
I was dicking around with the distributor and rotor button shaft position a lot toward the end of the day yesterday, so I will need to reset it back to TDC and #1 plug wire placement.
Likely I'll have to change the oil as some flooding occurred while attempting to start it yesterday.

[gadget73]

If the lifters were in some sort of oil based substance, you'll be fine. Rust is the problem, if they aren't rusty its not the end of the world. If they do not pump up, it will make ticking noises. Since your rockers aren't loose, I suspect they'll be just fine.

Also considering that it requires removing the intake manifold to change them, I'd skip that until absolutely proven that they are the issue.

[nfldfordltd]

They were soaked in Varsol for most of the time prior to assembly. The Varsol did dissolve the plastic containers I had each cylinder's valve parts put into, so the plastic was like a slimy goo that hardened up and had to be scrubbed off the rocker arms, push rods, retaining bolts, guide plates, etc prior to assembly. it is possible that some of the goo made its way inside the lifters. I'm going to try once again to time it up #1 TDC and rotor button at #1 and see if I have any luck. If still none, I'll turn the rotor 180* to #6 and try that on the off chance after many attempts and re-checks still somehow managed to put it 180* off. If that doesn't work, I'm going to try to loosen the rocker arms and pump the lifters up one cylinder at a time. If that doesn't work, then it's time to change the lifters. I had zero issues with the valvetrain in the old lopo engine so I'm comfortable with reusing those parts from that engine. The noises I got were rod knocks. Even the mains were surprisingly tight.
One last possibility is the cam I bought may not be what the PO says it is and actually has the lopo firing order. I may try that as well just to see what happens.
Right now, I'm ready to try almost anything. I may very well start throwing hammers through every piece of glass in the shop

[gadget73]

confirm the preload before you get too far along with changing lifters. You're using the same lifters and pushrods the engine was assembled with originally right? If so it should be where it belongs. Some aftermarket rockers want longer pushrods for correct preload but the valves will still open and shut. Too long a pushrod will make the valves hang open though.

[nfldfordltd]

confirm the preload before you get too far along with changing lifters. You're using the same lifters and pushrods the engine was assembled with originally right? If so it should be where it belongs. Some aftermarket rockers want longer pushrods for correct preload but the valves will still open and shut. Too long a pushrod will make the valves hang open though.

I now have the upper intake and valve covers off again. I shut down the fuel pump and removed the coil wire for elimination of spark and fuel. While cranking, it appears as though all rockers are moving as they should.
All valvetrain parts are original form the engine that was overhauled, nothing new or aftermarket. It was just cleaned and inspected prior to and during assembly. I put the lifters in so that the small hole in the side was pointing "up" towards the intake manifold. I assume they are oiling holes?

[gadget73]

They are, but I don't think the orientation matters all that much.

Did you verify that the preload seems reasonable?

[nfldfordltd]

They are, but I don't think the orientation matters all that much.

Did you verify that the preload seems reasonable?

Preload was the only thing I didn't check, mainly because I don't have a dial indicator.
They were all rocking aplenty when cranking, none seemed to be "lazy" and I did attempt to move all the rockers by hand while it was apart. They were all firm with no slop.
While it was all apart, I brought #1 to both valves being closed after the intake valve was open and had closed, indicating it was on the compression stroke. I then turned the engine by hand to bring it to the top of the stroke, verifying the valves to still be closed. The intake was now ever so slightly open with the #1 piston at TDC. I conclude this is as a result of the advanced cam.
I then put the distributor cap back on, and put the plug back on the #1 wire and put the coil wire back on. Distributor was 180* off. I pulled and stabbed the distributor so that the rotor was at #1 at this point. I then cranked the engine, the plug literally fired just as the two valves were closed on the #1 cylinder.
I thought "ha! Now I KNOW it's timed up right! No choice but to start now."
I set to work putting the valve covers and upper intake back on to see if I could set her going.
The flames that backfired through the throttle body were almost the same colour blue as the car. Didn't make an offer first nor last.
I'm getting pretty vexed with it now.