Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Adventures in cam swaps, also, how to fail at same

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    damn!!

    This thread made me realise I did not buy enough lifters and pushrods in preparations for one day trying to blanket fix a lifter tick
    Pete ::::>>> resident LED addict and CFI defector LED bulb replacements
    'LTD HPP' 85 Vic (my rusty baby) '06 Honda Reflex 250cc 'Baileys' 91 Vic (faded cream puff) ClifFord 'ODB' 88 P72 (SOLD) '77 LTDII (RIP)
    sigpic
    85HPP's most noteworthy mods: CFI to SEFI conversion w/HO upperstuff headers & flowmasters P71 airbox Towncar seats LED dash light-show center console w/5 gauge package LED 3rd brake light 3G alternator mini starter washer/coolant bottle upgrade Towncar power trunk pull underhood fuse/relay box 16" HPP wheels - police swaybars w/poly rubbers - budget Alpine driven 10 speaker stereo

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by BuffaloRider View Post
      Wow... I'm amazed.

      I'm curious, what exactly happened when you're cam gear fell off? Were you driving and all of sudden boom clang shabang WTF!? or what?
      It hitched once and shut off. I thought I'd lost a TFI module. No funny noises or anything of that nature, or at least not that I noticed. Cranked it and it had no spark. Called Scott to see if he could bring me a spare module. Stabbed that in, still no spark. For some reason I had a funny feeling and asked him to see if the rotor rotated. it did not.

      Basically all I did to fix it was stick the timing set back on. I compression tested the motor to see if it still had 16 working valves, and that came up fine. Put it the rest of the way together and drove it for 4 or 5 years until Sunday. The timing cover is still the one that was on there when it fell off. There are wounds to the inside of it. I should get pics of that, its sort of funny. No damage to the timing set either. I actually re-used it. Nobody had a double roller on hand, and the one that fell off was tighter than the new single row from the parts store and the new Explorer set Scott had. I probably could have avoided all this had I removed the lifters for inspection, but to be honest it never even occurred to me. Frankly, until this weekend I hadn't given the entire thing a thought in quite a long time.
      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

      Originally posted by phayzer5
      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

      Comment


        #18
        Parts have not yet come in, but I wanted to get an idea whether or not I may need pushrods. I dug out 2 good lifters and stuck them in. Looks like I get zero preload on the intake side and 0.005 on the exhaust. Book calls for .020-.060 on both.

        Also, I decided it may be smart to see if the pushrods are straight. 2 are bent real bad, amazed I didn't notice that before, and 6 have a very slight bend to them. Looks like I need a set anyway. Gonna take one of the good ones to work to get my boss to confirm the measurement on it. My calipers won't read over 6" and I know he has tools that will. 99.9% sure its a stock 6.248" pushrod but I figure its probably smart to know for sure before I go making assumptions. May take 2 to work with me, one for measurement and one for modification into a pushrod length checker. Should be able to splice in a piece of 1/4-20 threaded rod to make the adjustment part. Once I know the length of the stock pushrod, I can simply measure the difference in length with my calipers to figure out what I need.

        Side note, bolting a small bit of angle iron to the distributor hold-down hole makes for a much more secure mag base stand point. I was able to get repeatable numbers on the cam endplay. Its too much, which I knew already, but now I should have an easier time confirming that it is happy with the new thrust plate.

        All this makes me wonder, how the fuck was this thing running so well?
        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

        Originally posted by phayzer5
        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

        Comment


          #19
          dat HO gives zero fuks and just goze.

          Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
          rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
          Originally posted by gadget73
          ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
          Originally posted by dmccaig
          Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

          Comment


            #20
            302's seem fairly resilient to death. The 91 wagon's lopo on a good day made 10psi of oil pressure doing 75, has no oil pressure at idle, has seized up solid before, yet still fires right up and outruns HO swapped cars. I should probably save it, much better then a modular
            2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
            2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
            2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
            1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by pantera77 View Post
              302's seem fairly resilient to death. The 91 wagon's lopo on a good day made 10psi of oil pressure doing 75, has no oil pressure at idle, has seized up solid before, yet still fires right up and outruns HO swapped cars. I should probably save it, much better then a modular
              Lol........302s will run forever...........
              Rodney Tolleson, me at the track.....future drag box racer!

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by pantera77 View Post
                302's seem fairly resilient to death. The 91 wagon's lopo on a good day made 10psi of oil pressure doing 75, has no oil pressure at idle, has seized up solid before, yet still fires right up and outruns HO swapped cars. I should probably save it, much better then a modular
                It was running real good when you came out to Englishtown a few years ago.

                Packman

                Comment


                  #23
                  Custom grinds by Thain...

                  Did the power drop off noticeably from any point?
                  **2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302: 5.0/ 6 spd/ 3.73s, 20K Cruiser
                  **2006 MGM,"Ultimate": 4.6/ 2.73/ Dark Tint, Magnaflows, 19s, 115K Daily Driver
                  **2012 Harley Davidson Wide Glide (FXDWG):103/ Cobra Speedsters/ Cosmetics, 9K Poseur HD Rider
                  **1976 Ford F-150 4WD: 360, 4 spd, 3.50s, factory A/C, 4" lift, Bilsteins, US Indy Mags, 35s Truck Duties

                  Comment


                    #24
                    No. The only thing I noticed recently was a surprising and not unwelcome increase in fuel economy. 2 tanks in a row broke 20 mpg, and I have never gotten better than 18 out of it. I should have known something was wrong. It was actually getting the fuel mileage I'd expect it to get for the first time in better than 10 years of ownership.


                    Got a pushrod sliced in half to make adjustable, but didn't get to actually tapping it today. Too busy with other shit. My tap set here at home blows. Time to get a better one. I got a box in from Summit though, so I should have a set of lifters and a thrust plate to install after dinner. Can't really do much besides checking the cam endplay though.
                    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                    Originally posted by phayzer5
                    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Gonna put these here, since I think the cam swap may have been related. After the cam swap, I started having to add oil. It was up to a quart in under 1000 miles, complete with the blue clouds and other signs of embarassment. I swapped the valve seals out. These are what I removed.

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	image001.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	82.8 KB
ID:	1278301Click image for larger version

Name:	image002.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	72.7 KB
ID:	1278302Click image for larger version

Name:	image003.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	76.4 KB
ID:	1278303

                      The only thing I can come up with is that the valve seals didn't want to travel on the previously un-used bit of valve stem. No varnish buildup to speak of, and the stem is not damaged that I can see or feel. The stem is not as polished above where it moves, and I can see the bit of extra travel that the new cam gave it. I hope thats it anyway. Doesn't appear that the valve spring retainers are hitting the seals with the valve full open and the guides are not excessively worn as far as I could tell so hopefully new seals will be the end chapter in this novel.


                      If anyone ends up doing this, beware what valve seal application you search for. If you look up 1988 parts like I did, you get a positive style intake seal made of Viton and an umbrella style exhaust seal. Later seals are both a positive seal type, but with different materials for intake and exhaust. Starting in 1997, it was one seal for both valves. Order parts for a '97 Explorer if you get into this. They do fit just fine on my E7 heads. I have the 1988 Viton seals on the intake valves, and the '97 Explorer "does it all" seals on the exhaust side now. What came off appeared to have been the 97+ style since they all look to be the same.
                      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                      Originally posted by phayzer5
                      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                      Comment


                        #26
                        What is involved with swapping out the stem seals? When I have the intake swapped out I'm going to have my lifters replaced at the same time. Car uses oil but usually only a month or so before it needs to be changed. Rings can't be shot so I'm thinking it's those seals. My Fireturd with it's 305 drinks oil like it was liquor due to bad seals. I replaced those on that car but it is still thirsty, just doesn't make the embarrassing blue clouds any more at take off.
                        1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
                        1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

                        Comment


                          #27
                          So what failed was all the 97+ seals? You replaced them with a mix of old & new styles?

                          Both intake and exhaust seals failed?

                          perhaps you can't say but do you think the stems were factory polished up to the original exposure point or ?
                          03 Marauder DPB, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
                          02 SL500 Silver Arrow
                          08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated BFG G-Force Comp-2 A/S Plus, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi Carrier, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
                          12 Escape Limited V6 AWD, 225/65R17 Vredestein Quatrac Pro, Winter 235/70-16 Conti Viking Contact7 Mods>Beamtech LED headlight bulbs, Husky floor liners

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
                            What is involved with swapping out the stem seals? When I have the intake swapped out I'm going to have my lifters replaced at the same time. Car uses oil but usually only a month or so before it needs to be changed. Rings can't be shot so I'm thinking it's those seals. My Fireturd with it's 305 drinks oil like it was liquor due to bad seals. I replaced those on that car but it is still thirsty, just doesn't make the embarrassing blue clouds any more at take off.
                            Put air in the cylinders and use a spring compressor to get the valve spring off. Once its off, they just pry off the boss on the head. New one pushes on with a socket. Probably the same thing you did on the 305. Biggest problem I had were intake on #1 and #8. #1 because of the AC compressor (someone quote that, me mentioning some difficulty related to the AC) and #8 because the throttle cables kept hanging me up. Instead of 5 minutes per valve, those two may have taken 10 each. All in all, not a big deal. Mostly just awkward for bending over the fender for a lot of time.

                            Originally posted by jaywish View Post
                            So what failed was all the 97+ seals? You replaced them with a mix of old & new styles?

                            Both intake and exhaust seals failed?

                            perhaps you can't say but do you think the stems were factory polished up to the original exposure point or ?
                            I don't think they failed because of the specific design, but as far as I can tell all 16 seals were the 97+ style. Of the 16, only two weren't completely shredded, and both of those had the garter spring pulled off. I have a mix because thats what I could get. I had already purchased the earlier type intake seals because I didn't realize that what was on the heads wasn't what would be listed for a 1988. I was able to lay my hands on eight 97+ seals that would work for intake and exhaust and I already had 8 that were perfectly workable for the intake side.

                            I think the stems got polished from use. Where they had never been through the valve guide wasn't rough per se, but it wasn't as shiny as the part that was running through the guide. They aren't original valves, so I don't believe they could have been factory polished to any known point.
                            Last edited by gadget73; 10-05-2015, 05:25 PM.
                            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                            Originally posted by phayzer5
                            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Dads getting into replacing the valve seals on his 85 Mustang GT. He has stock heads that are ported. You think the 97 seals would work for his heads?

                              Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                              Gonna put these here, since I think the cam swap may have been related. After the cam swap, I started having to add oil. It was up to a quart in under 1000 miles, complete with the blue clouds and other signs of embarassment. I swapped the valve seals out. These are what I removed.

                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]43748[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]43749[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]43750[/ATTACH]

                              The only thing I can come up with is that the valve seals didn't want to travel on the previously un-used bit of valve stem. No varnish buildup to speak of, and the stem is not damaged that I can see or feel. The stem is not as polished above where it moves, and I can see the bit of extra travel that the new cam gave it. I hope thats it anyway. Doesn't appear that the valve spring retainers are hitting the seals with the valve full open and the guides are not excessively worn as far as I could tell so hopefully new seals will be the end chapter in this novel.


                              If anyone ends up doing this, beware what valve seal application you search for. If you look up 1988 parts like I did, you get a positive style intake seal made of Viton and an umbrella style exhaust seal. Later seals are both a positive seal type, but with different materials for intake and exhaust. Starting in 1997, it was one seal for both valves. Order parts for a '97 Explorer if you get into this. They do fit just fine on my E7 heads. I have the 1988 Viton seals on the intake valves, and the '97 Explorer "does it all" seals on the exhaust side now. What came off appeared to have been the 97+ style since they all look to be the same.
                              ~David~

                              My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
                              My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

                              Originally posted by ootdega
                              My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

                              Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
                              But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

                              Originally posted by gadget73
                              my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




                              Comment


                                #30
                                The bit of research I did on it when I bought the parts for mine indicates the intake seals at least should be backward compatible. The exhaust is where you might see the old umbrella type and there is a possibility that the area around the valve guide isn't shaped properly to accept the later type seal. Should be easy enough to tell once the spring is off. For whatever it's worth, my heads are E7's, and as far as I know those all ran umbrella type seals on the exhaust in original form. Its now living with mid 90s style seals on the exhaust and it fits just fine. I do not believe any machine work was done to the valve guide area to make those later seals fit. I'd expect the E5 heads to be the s ame.
                                86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                                5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                                91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                                1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                                Originally posted by phayzer5
                                I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X