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advice needed: "easiest" engine swap / rebuild?

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    advice needed: "easiest" engine swap / rebuild?

    So, some of you may recall I had planned to sell the wagon, but a combination of wrong time of year (winter in CO isn't prime-time to sell a RWD wagon) and my wife's indecision ("sell it"... "keep it") means that I missed my window of opportunity; that is to say, I've now got both a mystery coolant leak and need to put a half-quart of oil in it about once a month (yes, my driveway is a stained mess).

    Thought about just replacing the oil pan, as I know part of the leak is attributed to a stripped plug (already oversized) from the previous owner -- that and seal. However, just looked in the Chilton's manual and realized that isn't a simple job -- fuel lines, wiper motor(?), engine mounts, etc.

    So, thinking if I'm gonna go thru all that hassle, maybe a refresh is in order. This motor still runs great (however underpowered) -- just flipped to 120K miles. I suppose my ideal would be to just rebuild this one and maybe stroke it while I'm at it, but since we're a two-car family, I'd rather keep the downtime to a minimum -- find a donor to rebuild on a stand and then swap.

    I realize there are a bunch of threads here: HO, Explorer, Mustang, Mark VII, etc. but it seems each has its own "special needs". I'm looking to make this as simple as possible. One (annoying) caveat -- in Colorado you cannot use a "truck" motor in a "car" which rules out the Explorer option and I think all of the 351 swaps (unless there was an EFI 5.8 offered in a car that I'm not aware of?).

    Any advice? This would be my first engine swap, but I'm not afraid of tackling something new... just want to keep it as easy and cheap as possible to get a few more good years out of this old wagon.

    #2
    Its actually less cuss-worthy to yank the motor to do the oil pan than it is to do it in place.

    The least painful is a Fox HO swap. Basically you change the front engine accessories and stuff it in. The pan, intake, exhaust, etc all just bolts up. Its also the least powerful option, and involves looking for the oldest cars. Newest thing with that specific setup is 1993. Mustang and Mark VII are your donors there.

    Does the state have to know what exactly the engine came from? You can run an Explorer engine off a car ECM, and honestly I would strongly suggest doing so unless you're keen on a LOT of wiring and other nonsense. It also wouldn't be nearly at all difficult to say that the engine block is the original, and you used the top end parts from the Explorer. The stuff all fits, and unless someone is going to crawl around and look for the serial numbers nobody would ever know. Hell, even the HO engine heads were the same ones used on the pickup trucks, and the 96 Explorer heads happen to be the same ones used on a 93-95 Cobra, so it would be a little bit more effort than I expect anyone really cares to do in order to prove what the motor really came from. If the only thing they'd be looking at is the intake, then you can just use something that isn't an Explorer intake, though unfortunately it happens to be the best performing easily available factory intake. The 93 Cobra intake is slightly better, but not as much better as the money and the trouble of finding one is worth.


    Anyway, Explorer is the newest, but you're looking at 12 years ago vs almost 20 so that helps. They also require more work, the timing cover and oil pan need to swap.


    If you can afford a little downtime, you can always just swap the cam and heads on your existing engine while its out for the oil pan and stuff it back together as an HO. If you have a solid motor, that may not be a bad way to go.
    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Originally posted by phayzer5
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

    Comment


      #3
      I would echo Gadget here. Explorer vs. car HO there isn't much difference that would raise red flags. Any motor you want to install, I would strongly suggest removing all covers and the pan to install new high quality gaskets so other than buying another oil pan and timing cover explorer vs fox is not that different. Who would potentially examine a car to see if the engine was from a truck or not. In this case the explorer is not going to pollute any more than a "car" HO.

      I would hazard a guess here that if you really worried about the better explorer intake you could get a swap from someone here with a regular HO and probably make a few bucks here.
      03 Marauder DPB, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
      02 SL500 Silver Arrow
      08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated BFG G-Force Comp-2 A/S Plus, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi Carrier, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
      12 Escape Limited V6 AWD, 225/65R17 Vredestein Quatrac Pro, Winter 235/70-16 Conti Viking Contact7 Mods>Beamtech LED headlight bulbs, Husky floor liners

      Comment


        #4
        hmmmm... not sure. i spoke to a friendly emissions tech on the phone, and he made it pretty clear that they've been doing this long enough to know when a motor isn't stock. i suppose in my case it would be pretty obvious, since my '85 was the only year with TBI they'd know as soon as they opened the hood. the other rule, besides no truck engines, is you can't go "backwards" -- so new engine would have to be fuel-injected and have the same number (or more) O2 sensors, air pump, etc.

        gadget, i'm intrigued by just swapping cam and heads... if that were the case, what would you recommend?

        is there a write-up on here somewhere walking thru the steps to pull an engine from a box panther? (i'll poke around a bit.)

        P.S. i've also heard that some '85 blocks were roller and some were not -- how to tell?

        Comment


          #5
          When I replaced a dented oil pan on my 91...I removed the 2 bolts holding the 2 motor mount halves together. I removed the upper intake and removed the vacuum tree. Air duct, and a few other bits up top, then I jacked the motor up until it bottomed out against the cowl. I jammed some wood in to stake the engine up , moved the jack, then.. If you have a ratchet on the crank bolt you can start pulling hard on the oil pan towards the rad. You'll have to turn the crank as you go to get it to clear, just turn and turn and pull and with enough profanity it comes out!
          -Nick M.
          Columbia, SC

          66 Squire, 89 Colony Park, 90 TC, 03 TC, 06 TC, 07 TC (2x)
          03 BMW 540iT, 07 Toyota Tundra SR5 Dbl Cab/5.7 2WD

          Comment


            #6
            just noticed a 5.0 builder block for sale nearby on CL... from an '87 Mercury Cougar, EFI.
            might this be a good foundation for a rebuild, maybe even a stroker?

            Comment


              #7
              that motor will be about the same thing you currently have. Honestly all of the roller blocks are about the same from 1986-2002. Thats sort of why I find it curious that they claim to be able to know if the engine came from an Explorer.

              If you have a roller compatible block (somehow I missed that it's an 85), then just a boring old HO cam and a set of Explorer heads would do pretty well for you. Some 85's have it, some do not. Only real way to know is to either find and check the casting number, or remove the lower intake and look. If its roller compatible you will see the bosses in the lifter galley that need to be drilled and tapped for the spider. If not, it'll just be flat and you need to do something different. The 87 engine will be a roller block. It has shitty pistons and heads though. The pistons would be OK for an HO conversion, but not much else. No serious cam lift, no boost, nothing like that. The heads are just crap, though they work very well for wheel chocks, ballast weight on lawn tractors, or as ungainly anchors for small boats.
              86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
              5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

              91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

              1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

              Originally posted by phayzer5
              I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                ...then just a boring old HO cam and a set of Explorer heads would do pretty well for you.
                hmmm, i kinda like this option... explorer heads = gt40p heads?
                cam from exploder, too?

                Comment


                  #9
                  the cam from the explorer is kinda like the lopo cam with the better firing order... it runs out of steam at around 4K RPM. The HO cam will get up to 5200 or so without issue. Replacing the valve springs on the explorer heads is a must though.

                  Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                  rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                  Originally posted by gadget73
                  ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                  Originally posted by dmccaig
                  Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by sly View Post
                    the cam from the explorer is kinda like the lopo cam with the better firing order... it runs out of steam at around 4K RPM. The HO cam will get up to 5200 or so without issue. Replacing the valve springs on the explorer heads is a must though.
                    firing order change = ECM swap tho, right?
                    so where to find HO cam?
                    ballpark estimate for valve spring job?

                    time to start a $preadsheet.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      yup... gonna need to change the ECM with anything other than a bog stock replacement.

                      HO Cam - 5.0L mustangs, cougars, thunderbirds, Mark VII.

                      If the heads are not on the engine, you can do the valve spring job rather easily if you can get the valve spring compressor tool as a loaner. Or let a shop do it. provide them the heads and new springs and they should be able to get it done pretty quick for their shop rate (one hour probably). Finding a shop that will actually work on heads may be difficult though.

                      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                      rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                      Originally posted by gadget73
                      ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                      Originally posted by dmccaig
                      Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I would do like Gadget suggested; and not state where your engine came from; unless they start checking the numbers (had that happen to a friend; not a good story). Otherwise, if your junkyards have older vehicles in them, find another Panther, T-bird/Cougar, or some other car with a Windsor and pull it. If you're stroking the engine you're rebuilding, you might want to slowly (or quickly) save up the clams for decent heads (TFS 11R) to take advantage of the extra air that engine will pull. I wonder if the GT40 intakes can be bored out to increase airflow?

                        Packman

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by sly View Post
                          HO Cam - 5.0L mustangs, cougars, thunderbirds, Mark VII.
                          so if i pick up this shortblock from the '87 cougar it will already have the HO cam? that would be nice.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by packman View Post
                            I would do like Gadget suggested; and not state where your engine came from; unless they start checking the numbers (had that happen to a friend; not a good story). Otherwise, if your junkyards have older vehicles in them, find another Panther, T-bird/Cougar, or some other car with a Windsor and pull it. If you're stroking the engine you're rebuilding, you might want to slowly (or quickly) save up the clams for decent heads (TFS 11R) to take advantage of the extra air that engine will pull. I wonder if the GT40 intakes can be bored out to increase airflow?

                            Packman
                            are the stock heads on the cougar block the same as my panther?
                            looks like a pair of GT40p heads on CL nearby. assume those would be an improvement, once new springs per gadget's advice?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The 87 should be an HO. The heads may be E7 heads like the Mustang or E6 like the panthers. They won't be GT40 for sure. Though, with E7 heads, you drop it in and use D9S ECM and there's no more wiring to do. It's a plug and play swap.

                              Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                              rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                              Originally posted by gadget73
                              ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                              Originally posted by dmccaig
                              Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                              Comment

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